Best way to mix Rogue, Barbarian AND fighter in one build?

[Wasp]

I would like to build a STR based character that mixes Rogue for Sneak Attack, Barbarian for Reckless Attack and Fighter for Action Surge in a build. I was imagining someone like a Hero Pirate mixed with Porthos from the Three Musketeers - at least in those versions, where he is a bit more of a ruffian with a brute strength approach to combat (but still mostly a Swashbuckler).

What would be the best way to mix those three classes, especially if you play through all these levels until it goes online? What race, what subclasses, feats and stats would you recommend? I would prefer it to mostly "feel" like a Rogue-type, but Rogue doesn't have to be the main class.

My original idea was Rogue 1 / Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Rogue X (Swashbuckler?) but I feel that would be quite bad in the end, especially with Extra Attack waiting at lv 5 of either Barbarian or Fighter and CHA being probably very low for a Swashbuckler... Maybe Rogue 1 / Totem Barb 3 / BM Fighter 6 / Scout Rogue X?

We are doing point buy and a free feat at first level, but we don't have the XBE, GWM and PAM feats available (but any martial class can do -5/+10 with any weapon they are proficient with).

PS: Do you have any (Magic) item suggestions for my wish list?

[Leon]

Maybe try less forward planning and pick a start point (with some more solid inspiration than just XYZ class features) and see what comes naturally to the character

[NontheistCleric]

Is there any reason this character concept wouldn't work with a single class? This seems needlessly complicated, to be honest.

[CTurbo]

The problem with 3 classes is your idea won't "come online" and also be "good" until you have at least 5 levels in one of the classes so character level 9 probably at the earliest. If you're at level 6 with 2 levels of Fighter, Barb, and Rogue, you're going to be a relatively weak level 6 character overall IMO. I think you need to have 5 levels in one class by level 6 at the earliest.

I'd probably make a TWF Swashbuckler Rogue and try to get to Rogue 5 ASAP or maybe do Fighter 1, Rogue 5, Fighter 2, and then consider 2 levels of Barb, but mostly stay Rogue from there. With TWF, you don't really need Extra Attack. If you want Extra Attack, make Fighter your main class, still go TWF, get to Fighter 5 ASAP, and stick to just 3 levels of Rogue.

Either way choose ONE of the classes as your main, and get to level 5 as quickly as possible.

Rogue 15, Fighter 3, Barb 2 - 2 attacks, but 8d6 Sneak Attack. Battle Master maneuvers offer off-turn Sneak Attack damage.

or

Fighter 11, Rogue 7, Barb 2 - 4 attacks, but only 4d6 Sneak Attack. Battle Master maneuvers offer off-turn Sneak Attack damage.

[Kane0]

We are doing point buy and a free feat at first level, but we don't have the XBE, GWM and PAM feats available (but any martial class can do -5/+10 with any weapon they are proficient with).


General advice is to get extra attack ASAP then branch out from there. Fighter 5 then rogue 2 then barb 2 i think would be smoothest? Good thing you get that starting feat cause otherwise youd be waiting a long time, thats like three ASIs you miss compared to just straight fighter.
Battlemaster is always a fan favourite and can be used to tailor to your character vision and party composition, but rune knight is also a top contender. Once you get to your rogue and barb sides there's plenty to choose from, or you can keep them both at 2 and just go back for more fighter.

For feat if go with your choice of crusher piercer or slasher, or otherwise maybe something like tavern brawler or mobile if that's more your thing.
Observant, resilient, alert and lucky are more generalized but still good choices. Skill expert too actually given how long you will have to wait for your rogue parts to kick in, or even ritual caster or mounted combatant depending on your party and campaign.

Edit: if you just want to feel a bit more roguey without being a rogue, you could just be a goblin starting with the skilled or skill expert feat.

[da newt]

I enjoy a Rogue - Barb. IMO it works best if you keep it simple. There are some great synergies (uncanny dodge + rage resistance, evasion + danger sense, reckless + sneak attack, expertise + rage for grappling, etc) which can make for a fun PC but they aren't really a power build - more of a good all around melee build.

If you want more rogue go 2 barb, then swashbuckler X, lean into the rapier and shield w/ unarmored defense and rage resistance to create a rather tanky skirmisher. The down side is just 1 attack / turn. I'd be tempted to lean into Elvin accuracy and would go with Shadar Kai or similar race for the added resistances and mobility.

Option 2 would be to go more Barb to get to subclass and multi-attack, something like barb-5 then rogue X. Bear totem, wolf totem, ancestral guardians, giant - whatever subclass excites you. I like the idea of a really big race for this sort of build - bugbear or Goliath etc.

I don't know that action surge is worth the investment. It would allow for a ready action attack 1/short rest for a bonus off turn sneak attack, but is that worth the cost? Maybe. BM is tempting (or rune knight) and fighter 3-5 (or 6 for the ASI) probably gives you more than Barb 3-5.

In order to get the most out of SA anything you can do to increase the chances of an off turn attack is handy (sentinel, brace, riposte, an ally who grants you attacks, etc) and if you can grab booming blade it goes great w/ swashbuckler hit and run tactics for those fights where you aren't raging.

This is an overly complex build where all the cool stuff may not actually get you much more than a simpler build, but it will be fun so go for it.

[tKUUNK]

As you know, getting better Sneak Attack (SA) competes with getting Extra Attack (EA) in this build. And three classes competes with ever seeing an ASI. This kind of multiclass isn't for the faint of heart.

With the -5/+10 house rule, I suppose you intend to reckless attack a lot for higher odds to hit (plus auto-advantage for SA)?

Are you planning to two-weapon fight? (I would) This could affect subclass choices and progression.

I agree with getting reckless attack early on, so barb 2 is a priority. Beast barb (claw form) is an option for extra attacks while raging, so you may want to go barb 3 before hopping to fighter. Not sure if Beast barb is quite on theme for this guy though. Wolf Totem could be fun if you're looking to be a team player.

I'm not sure I'd take any fighter levels on this guy but....
For fighter, yes go Battle Master. My eye is on Brace, Riposte, Disarm, Trip, and Precise. These selections may depend a bit on party composition. Trip will be valuable with the -5/+10 house rule, assuming there are a couple other melee characters in your group. I'd probably take the blindfighting style even though it's a bit niche. It's amazing when you need it and kind of on theme.

Hope this helps! Magic item choice will depend on the build. But an alchemy jug for free ale is my vote!

[JonBeowulf]

The problem with 3 classes is your idea won't "come online" and also be "good" until you have at least 5 levels in one of the classes so character level 9 probably at the earliest. If you're at level 6 with 2 levels of Fighter, Barb, and Rogue, you're going to be a relatively weak level 6 character overall IMO. I think you need to have 5 levels in one class by level 6 at the earliest.


This.

If I was playing at your table, I'd be pissed if I had to carry your share of the load until your character finally becomes helpful. In game, why would a group of people bring you with them on dangerous activities when they can hire an NPC of the same level that would contribute more? Yeah, I get that it's a social game and real people overlook things like this all the time for the sake of the game. Just be cautious that you're not the one they complain about outside of the game.

I like the concept, though, so I hope there's a way to make it work quickly.

[Quietus]

Different take, here - I would look at building a character with an explosive first round. Half orc, with levels in assassin rogue, your choice of barbarian, and 2-3 fighter (battlemaster if you go for the subclass). Pick up the Piercer feat, wield a rapier. The levels will depend on what you want the build to do.

If you want to go for sheer damage - 5 barb (zealot, probably), 3 rogue (assassin), back to barb. Sprinkle in fighter levels if desired. This build leans into adding crit dice, as every time you crit you get 4d8+2x sneak attack+brutal critical, +potential zealot damage/crit. There's probably a balance point at which you'll want to consider more rogue over going for more brutal critical, but keep in mind that Zealot can help do some heavy lifting here too.

For a more survivable build - Rogue 5 first, plays very much as a standard assassin, or you can play another subclass if you prefer. You can drop one level of barb in there early for rage, or pick up barb only into tier2. Here you have the option to stay with barb1 for a couple rages a day and focus on fighter from there, really lean into the extra ASIs that Rogue and Fighter offer at 10 and 6 respectively to push your unarmored defense up. Or you can go up to barb3 for one extra rage, reckless attack, and bear totem. Bear totem + uncanny dodge + eventual evasion and danger sense = one tough customer.

Or, fighter-heavy as a grapple build : Rune knight fighter, with 1-3 levels each of barb and rogue. Early game you almost certainly want to go either straight to fighter5, or maybe drop a single level of rogue in there for expertise. Then you have to decide whether you want to take fighter to 6 (bonus ASI) or 7 (runic shield, bonus rune), before grabbing any additional levels of rogue, or grabbing barbarian levels. This one may just want to skip the barb levels, since you can grab the hill rune and replicate the effects of rage 1/short rest. This is also less focused on that assassin-crit setup, so it's a bit more flexible on the race and rogue subclass fronts, too. In fact, a soulknife rogue could add their psi-dice to grapple checks if they happened to fail, and might be worth considering here.

[RogueJK]

I agree that triple-classes take a while to come online. However, this is somewhat manageable on a Rogue, since you don't have to race to Extra Attack ASAP like most multiclass martials. A delay to Extra Attack can be offset via TWF and Sneak Attack, so there's not a huge rush to get to Barbarian or Fighter 5 right away.

In addition, 2 levels of Fighter can wait until your other features are already online.

Therefore, if you want to make this work, I'd first decide which features you want to prioritize from Rogue and Barbarian. Let that guide your leveling. You mentioned Sneak Attack and Reckless Attack, so that's at least Rogue 1 and Barbarian 2. You'll want to get at least one subclass up to speed sooner than later, probably Rogue, so that's Rogue 3/Barbarian 2.

From there, you can decide whether you want to prioritize multiple attacks, or single strong attacks. If you want to make multiple attacks, then plan to TWF and head towards Barbarian 5 for Extra Attack, or maybe 6 depending on subclass feature. This gets you 3x attacks, with added Rage damage, plus a little Sneak Attack added to one of them. The other route would be to focus on just boosting your single attack and never pick up Extra Attack, just like a traditional Rogue. That might look more like a Barbarian 2 or 3/Rogue X. Snag Booming Blade via race/feat/AT subclass to further scale your single attack when you're not using one of your very limited Rages per day.

If you really want 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge, it'll have to wait until later levels, after something like Rogue 3/Barbarian 5 or 6, or Barbarian 2 or 3/Rogue 7ish. But I'm not seeing a massive benefit from taking the 2 levels of Fighter. A Fighting Style and Action Surge are handy, but less impactful on a martial like this than on something like a spellcaster who can then cast 2 leveled spells in a turn, or a gish who can cast a leveled spell and then still make their full complement of weapon attacks. Instead, I'd likely recommend going either just Rogue/Barbarian or Rogue/Fighter, and skip the third multiclass.


With all that in mind, a Rogue/Barbarian pirate/musketeer might look something like this:

High Half Elf
Ancestral Barbarian 3/Swashbuckler Rogue X, going Barbarian 1 -> Rogue 3 or 4 -> Barbarian 3 -> Rogue X
(By starting Barb instead of Rogue you lose out on 1 skill proficiency, but gain better starting HP and Medium Armor proficiency.)
STR 14+2
DEX 13+1
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 10
CHA 13+1
ASIs: Skill Expert or Piercer at 1 for 17 STR, the other at Rogue 4 for 18 STR, and 20 STR or 16 CHA at Rogue 8
Racial Booming Blade cantrip
Expertise in Athletics, Deception, and whatever others you want
Wear a breastplate, and wield a rapier and shield

This sets you up to be a mobile, hard-hitting skirmisher/tank with a decent AC of ~19. Sneak Attack + Booming Blade/Ancestral Protectors + Fancy Footwork + Cunning Action Dash gives you the ability to move in, land a devastating blow, trigger your added damage from BB (if not raging) or the support/tank ability (if raging), then scoot away. When Raging, the enemy is left with a dilemma of either to remain in place and possibly make Disadvantaged/Resisted attacks against any allies that might be within reach, or else try to catch up to you to make normal attacks (which they may not be able to). Then eventually gaining Panache at Rogue 9 gives you an additional tanking option that doesn't rely Raging and can be combo'd with BB.

Your core capability is available right from Level 3 (Barbarian 1/Rogue 2), via BB/SA + Cunning Action Disengage, and then just builds further from there adding on free Disengage at Rogue 3, then easy Advantage (or easy ability to cancel Disadvantage to utilize Rakish Audacity) at Barbarian 2 without also eating your Bonus Action for Steady Aim, then additional support effects while Raging at Barbarian 3, more Sneak Attack dice every other Rogue level, additional tanking/kiting ability at Rogue 9, etc.

(Race doesn't have to be a High Half Elf, though that gets you an additional stat point plus racial BB. You can go with a different race and grab BB via Magic Initiate Sorcerer/Wizard, or go with the MotM Kobold race for racial Booming Blade. A higher movement speed race like Centaur, or Feral Tiefling to fly in medium armor, could be good alternate choices.)

[Theodoxus]

snip


This. All of this. This is exactly what I was going to say. After reading it, Wasp, does it work for you? Is there anything it's missing or you'd tweak?

[Skrum]

I was going to say what Rogue said, but with a bit more power-melee focus: that is, take 5 levels of barb first. T1 play is when the barb is at their best, so depending on how optimized your table is, these are the only levels where you can play a barb and and be very effective at what the barb is meant for.

Level 6, go rogue. I'm playing a barb/rogue right now, and I'm really loving TWF for the maximal flexibility. I switch regularly between TWF for 3 attacks a round, or attacking with 1 weapon to free my other hand for a grapple. Expertise + rage makes your grapple all but unbeatable, so swapping weapons and grapples can get you a lot of mileage.

Subclass-wise, I'd favor soulknife over swashbuckler. Reckless attack means you don't really need the easier source of SA, and psi-bolstered knack is practically a permanent bardic inspiration for your skills. Barb subclass, I don't have a strong recommendation. Zealot is best for damage, ancestral guardian best for tanking, and...well the rest aren't that good lol. IMO, you're going to get the most mileage out of zealot. Just hitting hard is really good, and stacking SA + divine fury + rage bonus + your table's -5/+10 means even a light weapon is going to hit like a TRUCK.

Personally, I'd take 5 levels of rogue. Rage + Uncanny Dodge, that's A LOT of toughness and a solid SA. Level 11, then I'd go fighter.

Note on Rogue's idea, Booming Blade cannot be used while raging. It's a melee attack but it's still a spell. So, the ancestral guardian + blade combo doesn't work.

[RogueJK]

Note on Rogue's idea, Booming Blade cannot be used while raging. It's a melee attack but it's still a spell. So, the ancestral guardian + blade combo doesn't work.

Good catch. However, you'd also only have 3 rages per day, so BB would still be of use when you're not raging. And either way, you still have a reason to hit and scoot, either to try to trigger the rider damage, or to give them the dilemma of less successfully attacking another or trying to chase you down to attack you.

[Wasp]

I feel you all are right that Fighter may be a bit much, maybe later. But I am not quite sure yet if I should go Barb 5 first and then Rogue or follow more RogueJK's idea.

In regards to Booming Blade: While I like the idea of Rapier and or Short Sword, I am wondering if the Double Bladed Scimitar and (later if I start with Barb 5) Revenant Blade could be better than Booming Blade if I rely on Rage at least some time...

What's the opinion here on the Double-Bladed Scimitar for A Barb/Rogue?

[Skrum]

I feel you all are right that Fighter may be a bit much, maybe later. But I am not quite sure yet if I should go Barb 5 first and then Rogue or follow more RogueJK's idea.

In regards to Booming Blade: While I like the idea of Rapier and or Short Sword, I am wondering if the Double Bladed Scimitar and (later if I start with Barb 5) Revenant Blade could be better than Booming Blade if I rely on Rage at least some time...

What's the opinion here on the Double-Bladed Scimitar for A Barb/Rogue?

Well it's not a finesse weapon, so it doesn't work with sneak attack. It also locks you into a 2 handed weapon, meaning you can't grapple while using (a) weapon.

So I haveta say I don't like it lol. If you were to go barb/fighter, I think it's a great weapon. Rogue, it's at odds with most of what rogue is bringing.

[Wasp]

Well it's not a finesse weapon
It is with Revenant Blade

[Trafalgar]

"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyberborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west...

Hither came Conan the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

Robert E. Howard, The Phoenix on the Sword

[Damon_Tor]

I had a lot of fun with a dual-whip barbarian. I went 2 levels in barb (getting to reckless attack) then just 1 level in rogue, then straight barbarian the rest of the way.

The one rogue level adds 1d6 to damage per turn to make up from the choice of a lower damage weapon. It also gives you expertise in a few skills, which can be real nice: in my case this was athletics for grappling (though obviously I would have to stop dual-wielding to do it) as well as stealth. And just 1 level means there's not a serious delay in barbarian features.

The DM laid out the totemic pantheon he had in mind for the culture of the village our party hailed from, and I really liked the snake spirit. So I wanted to create a barbarian who had a "snake-like" fighting style, so two whips are like snakes striking, excellent stealth capability, grappling like a constrictor. Eventually went zealot with necrotic damage, since necrotic is sort of a stand in for "spirit poison".

[Witty Username]

What is your starting level?

So the concern I would have is the road to extra attack, and how quickly do you want to feel like this build?

So my first thought is Barbarian 5, then from there the rogue and fighter levels. Since barbarian rages are at a bit of a premium getting to 6 for 4 rages per day makes that alot more usable.

But rogue 1 then barbarian gets you a start on the skills and mindset, but delays extra attack, if you are starting a 6th this is not an issue though.

[RazorChain]

I feel you all are right that Fighter may be a bit much, maybe later. But I am not quite sure yet if I should go Barb 5 first and then Rogue or follow more RogueJK's idea.

In regards to Booming Blade: While I like the idea of Rapier and or Short Sword, I am wondering if the Double Bladed Scimitar and (later if I start with Barb 5) Revenant Blade could be better than Booming Blade if I rely on Rage at least some time...

What's the opinion here on the Double-Bladed Scimitar for A Barb/Rogue?


Going Rogue or Barb first is question of 4 extra HP (Barb) or extra skill (Rogue)

Then there is saving throws STR/CON vs DEX/INT

I would pick Rogue first but that's just because I like to make skills monkeys.

[RogueJK]

Going Rogue or Barb first is question of 4 extra HP (Barb) or extra skill (Rogue)

Then there is saving throws STR/CON vs DEX/INT

I would pick Rogue first but that's just because I like to make skills monkeys.

Don't forget about Medium Armor Proficiency!

Starting Barbarian gains you that, but unlike the other martial classes, multiclassing into Barbarian does not. Multiclassing into Barbarian only gains you weapons and shield proficiencies.

So since you're unlikely to be able to afford more than a moderate DEX, you really do need to start Barbarian for that medium armor...

(Unless you roll for stats, and happen to roll well enough to be able to afford a high DEX alongside the other stats you want...)

[Witty Username]

You could go githyanki or mountain dwarf to solve that problem though.

[DragonBaneDM]

FINALLY found this thread again! Hi! Hi, I've been playing a Warforged Barbarian who went Totem 5, then started taking Rogue levels, with Scout as my subclass for a "Build Your Own Ranger" type feel. I've expressed intent to take Fighter levels, but since I'm the power gamer of our group and my DM and I don't want me to get too far ahead of the rest of the team, I promised those would be the last levels I took in the campaign, which I'm okay with!

I also have had this lingering idea for a "Dead Dude Duelist" that won't leave my head, and if I was doing it all over again, I would find a way to make Ancestral Guardian 5, Echo Knight 3-4, and then Phantom Rogue X. Idea would be to maximize the amount of ghosts and phantoms around me while also doing a decent job of protecting my team via Sentinel giving me a variety of reactions for a super fun time.

I can also verify that Swashbuckler is the best Rogue for figuring out how to do a melee Sneak Attack, at any cost. However, I'm also of the school of thought that Rogue is one of those classes that is a good enough chassis that you truly can just go for fluff on your subclass and there really isn't a bad choice. Sure, Assassins will always have a tough time using their features, and Arcane Trickster won't get along well with rage, but hey, you're still mostly here for the stuff on the Rogue table, not the subclass list.

I will say no matter how you cut it, you're in for a really good time. Reckless Sneak Attack is just as fun in practice as it looks on paper. Getting my expertise in Athletics made me have a fun side role as a grappler and battlefield controller not just fun but just something fun to do when the battle is going our way and I want to screw around. Heck, one time I got stuck on on one and being able to pin down a baddie prone until my party could mop up other stuff saved my PC.

[RogueJK]

I also have had this lingering idea for a "Dead Dude Duelist" that won't leave my head, and if I was doing it all over again, I would find a way to make Ancestral Guardian 5, Echo Knight 3-4, and then Phantom Rogue X. Idea would be to maximize the amount of ghosts and phantoms around me while also doing a decent job of protecting my team via Sentinel giving me a variety of reactions for a super fun time.

That's totally viable. You get just about everything you want from Ancestral Guardian at 6 levels, and Echo Knight Fighter at 3 levels. So by doing a Barbarian 6/Fighter 3 or 4 split, that still leaves plenty of room for 10-11 Rogue levels on top.

I haven't tried it with the additional Rogue levels, but I can confirm from personal play experience that the Ancestral Guardian/Echo Knight combo is an extremely strong build.

Something like this:
Custom Lineage
Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 6 -> Echo Knight Fighter 4 -> Phantom Rogue 10
STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14+2
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 8
ASIs: Piercer or Skill Expert for 16 STR at Level 1, 18 STR at Barbarian 4, Sentinel at Fighter 4, 20 STR at Rogue 4, 18 CON at Rogue 8, 20 CON at Rogue 10
Fighting Style: Dueling or Defense
Wear a Breastplate and use a Rapier and a Shield

The cool part is that there are no "dead levels" along the way, and this is effective from Level 1-20. From the get-go you're an effective Sword and Board Barbarian, and every level you take on top of that simply adds to your effectiveness in that role, with you eventually being even more effective than just a single-classed Barbarian. The only downside is the Reaction clog, with you having to decide whether you want to use/save your lone Reaction each round to reduce damage to yourself (Uncanny Dodge), reduce damage to an ally (Spirit Shield), make an OA from either your space or your Echo's, or make an attack against an adjacent enemy (Sentinel).

[DragonBaneDM]

That's totally viable. You get just about everything you want from Ancestral Guardian at 6 levels, and Echo Knight Fighter at 3 levels. So by doing a Barbarian 6/Fighter 3 or 4 split, that still leaves plenty of room for 10-11 Rogue levels on top.

...

The cool part is that there are no "dead levels" along the way, and this is effective from Level 1-20. From the get-go you're an effective Sword and Board Barbarian, and every level you take on top of that simply adds to your effectiveness in that role, with you eventually being even more effective than just a single-classed Barbarian. The only downside is the Reaction clog, with you having to decide whether you want to use/save your lone Reaction each round to reduce damage to yourself (Uncanny Dodge), reduce damage to an ally (Spirit Shield), make an OA from either your space or your Echo's, or make an attack against an adjacent enemy (Sentinel).

Totally forgot that Ancestral Guardian wants to go 6 for their second feature. Thanks for the save!

And I totally agree with the last bit: and that's just how I feel about Rogue in general. Even if I don't love my subclass (like how I'm pretty unimpressed with Scout outside of skills+flavor) I always have a bump up in Sneak Attack damage to compliment the Roguish Archetype features that I get. Figuring out a breakpoint for Fighter is fun, just because 3 gets you to Echo, but 4 gets you to another Feat/ASI. That ASI is up against Rogue 11 for Reliable Talent and a Sneak Attack upgrade.

End game theorycrafting is usually just that, but what is always fun is figuring out "Which fun thing do I really want on the table?" and "Which flavor of the fantasy do I want to chase next. Is this the right time to connect with a mightier rage? Did my character go through a tough moment that's finally helped them master a secret technique?" The classes each allow for a moment to say "Since my character and the party accomplished X I think it makes sense to progress in a Y direction" and you'll still have fun.

[Bobthewizard]

The -5/+10 on any attack really helps a barbarian. They have reckless attack and won't have to choose between ASI and GWM. I would prioritize extra attacks. If the game will mostly be tier 1 and 2, I'd go Beast Barbarian for the free extra attack with -5/+10. Or dual wield for the extra attack, which eats into your BA, but would work with sneak attack later.

If the game would primarily be after level 13, I'd consider just two levels of barbarian for reckless attack and the rest fighter for the third attack at fighter 11.

The free -5/+10 rule makes me want to use rogue less. You don't want to use the -5 to hit if you have a bunch of sneak attack dice, and it takes 5 levels of rogue to equal that +10 damage for one attack.

So let's say barbarian 5 for reckless attack, beast barbarian, and extra attack
Then fighter 3 for action surge, echo knight, and unleash incarnation, or fighter 4 for an ASI

Then you can mix rogue and barbarian as you want, or even add in some monk for a flurry of blows and another attack.

[RogueJK]

I'm confused by your recommendations, Bob. You're recommending GWM + Reckless Attack on a Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue, but then recommending Beast Barbarian for their extra claw attack.

Beast Barbarian's natural weapons don't work with GWM. Their natural attacks aren't Heavy weapons.

Beast Barbarian's natural weapons also don't work with a Rogue's Sneak Attack, since they aren't Finesse weapons.

Also, GWM's -5/+10 and Sneak Attack are intentionally mutually exclusive. One requires a Heavy weapon and the other a Finesse weapon, and there are no Heavy Finesse weapons (outside of homebrew/3rd party, perhaps).


So while you could do like you're recommending with a Beast Barbarian/Fighter with some Rogue levels later, and have an additional Claw attack, you won't be using Sneak Attack or GWM while attacking with those natural weapons. Best you could do would be GWM+Claw+Claw, if you were mixing in a Heavy Weapon attack first, followed by a Claw with your second Extra Attack to trigger the additional Claw attack. But none of those three would get Sneak Attack from the Rogue levels, and the Claw attacks wouldn't get GWM's damage bonus.

Or you could do a Beast Barbarian/Fighter with some Rogue levels, ignoring the Claw and going Tail solely for the defensive ability then using a Heavy weapon with GWM for both of your attacks, but you still won't be Sneak Attacking with any of those, nor would you be gaining the additional Claw attack in that case.


However, the OP stated that GWM isn't available for them, so therefore that whole point is moot. We're left with something like a Beast Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue using a Rapier, and either going with Claw for two more attacks if the first Rapier hit lands to trigger Sneak Attack, or otherwise going with Tail just for the defensive use. Neither one is really that great, compared to other Barbarian subclass abilities.

[Bobthewizard]

I'm confused by your recommendations, Bob. You're recommending GWM + Reckless Attack on a Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue, but then recommending Beast Barbarian for their extra claw attack.

Sorry. I was trying to say that normally you would want GWM, but with this houserule you don't need it, and I think that helps barbarian more than fighter, especially the beast barbarian subclass.

I don't think I'd take any rogue levels, but the OP said they wanted it. I'd rather mix monk into it and maybe gloom stalker ranger.

[RogueJK]

Ah, gotcha.

Beast Barbarian/Monk could be an interesting combo, since their natural weapons qualify as Monk weapons. They can even qualify as Kensei weapons.

Perhaps a STR-based Tortle Beast Barbarian/Kensei Monk, like this:

Tortle
Monk 1 -> Beast Barbarian 3 -> Kensei Monk X
STR 15+1
DEX 13+1
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 13+1
CHA 8
ASIs: +2 STR at Monk 4, +2 STR at Monk 8

You've got a two 1d6 unarmed strikes and 17 AC from the start. At Level 4 you have three attacks per turn while Raging with the Claw. At Level 8 you have four attacks per turn while Raging with the Claw (or five if you flurry). If you want to prioritize defense over additional attacks, at Level 6 you can designate your Tail as a Kensei Weapon, then have an AC of 19 every turn while Raging via Agile Parry, plus another 1d8 against one attack per round. Otherwise you can designate your Claw as a Kensei weapon, and at Level 8 you can have an AC of 19 while still making four attacks with Unarmed+Claw+Claw+Unarmed. And at Level 9, your Claw/Tail and Unarmed Strikes all count as magical to overcome resistance.

Other than the 3 level delay to overcoming nonmagical resistance (9 vs. 6), I think this could be a very fun Tier 1 and 2 build, though it would drop off in usefulness in Tiers 3 and 4 since you don't gain any additional attacks and your attack damage doesn't scale much at all.

[Ganryu]

Currently playing this exact multiclass. Dm had to nerf me because I was outperforming a lot of the players (admittedly I'm the only minmaxer)

5 bear totem (nerfed to deer later)
5 rogue (went mastermind for bonus action helps)
2 fighter is my current

Haven't had a dead level yet.

Going to 4 fighter, rest rogue.

Only real homebrew is DM let me swap out my ac from dex to charisma, and no Mc requirements...

So I have 20 charisma, 8 dex (and expertise performance and getting commander's presence) [I'm a jester thematically]

But cunning evasion and bear barb quartering damage is really strong. Reckless strike and sneak attack synergize well together.

Hint on action surge, use it to hold your action to get a second sneak attack off in a round. Trigger is really "not my turn". Can't reckless it, but it's alright.

If you're straight up dueling someone, use steady aim instead of reckless.

[Pex]

I won't say this is the best, but this is what I did. We used dice rolling for ability scores. With lots of odd numbers, I noticed if I went normal human I would have a great array of high ST high CO and good DX with decent mental scores (above what Point Buy could give) to finally play the barbarian I wanted to try. I went bear barbarian of course for resistance to everything except psychic. I chose to use a shield because I still wanted good AC. Half-damage to everything is nice, but that doesn't mean I wanted to be hit all that often. At 4th level I took Shield Master after the DM confirmed I can shove before I attack so that I didn't always have to use Reckless Attack after tripping my opponent

At 6th level I took bear totem again to continue my shtick as strongest man in the world. At 8th level my resilience was phenomenal, but my offensive power was starting to lack. I wasn't using Great Weapon Master. I didn't regret my choice of using the shield. It helped a lot many times, but now I needed to think about getting offense power. That's when I went into fighter. Action Surge and battle master maneuvers gave me the offense power I needed. I only took 4 levels of fighter because Extra Attack doesn't stack. I was at 8 barbarian/4 fighter.

At 13th level I went rogue. I didn't care about sneak attack. My magic weapon wasn't finesse. I wanted the other class features. Cunning Action with Thief gave me flexibility to move and do stuff. No loss of speed on climbing proved quite handy. Uncanny Dodge stacks with bear resistance since they are two differently named things and Uncanny Dodge isn't resistance anyway. Quarter damage from a critical hit was huge. When Evasion came online with my already advantage on DX saves I was nearly unstoppable (unless the DM used psychic damage, the rascal). With bear resistance even if I failed the save I took quarter damage from a Fireball for instance. I also took Expertise in Athletics which cemented my place as strongest man in the world. Eventually Sneak Attack damage was significant enough to matter, so I would get a magic short sword.

At campaign end 20th level I was Bear Barbarian 8/Battle Master Fighter 4/Thief Rogue 8. He was a blast to play, famous in the campaign for slaying dragons. He slew the red dragon that made his dragonhide armor.

[Keravath]

My character like this is a Dwarven scout - part of the Mountain Dwarf armies. Most of them are barbarians but their special forces are needed to provide scouting and an ability to recognize and deal with traps among other things. The character used point buy starting with 17 14 17 8 10 8. The first 5 levels were barbarian then they switched to rogue. First ASI went to str and con. Rogue is next and fighter is always an option though I am not sure that action surge is that much better than the rogue levels that are being given up. For role play reasons, the character would likely pick up a headband of intellect to better support their role as a scout/special forces operative.

Anyway, I found the best way to create the character was 5 barbarian levels followed by rogue so that they are always fulfilling a useful role.