Greyhawk Players - Some questions.

[Dr.Samurai]

Hi everyone!

Thinking of running some modules for our group and wondering a few things about timeline.

Is there a resource available that pins down when modules take place in the setting? It occurred to me that some modules were made before the Greyhawk Wars was a thing, and so maps and stuff will be different. Curious about Barrier Peaks, ToEE, Slave Lords, Against the Giants (no spoilers please, currently playing through this), Age of Worms. There's others, but hopefully there's a list or something that can help sort it out.

Or... does it not really matter? For those of you that run/play in Greyhawk games, is it post Wars or before, or do you ignore the Greyhawk Wars stuff? Curious if there are pros/cons for either.

Thank you all!

[rax]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, all the modules you mention except Age of Worms are set before the Greyhawk Wars, at least if you're referring to the AD&D modules.

Greyhawk Wars was published in 1991. Barrier Peaks was first published in 1980, ToEE in 1985, Scourge of the Slave Lords in 1986 (the individual modules had originally been published 1980-81), and Against the Giants in 1981. In short, when they were written, the Greyhawk Wars wasn't yet a thing.

Checking Wikipedia, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks doesn't have a setting date listed, but apparently the adventure introduction states the the Duchy of Geoff is under constant attack from monsters emerging from a cave in the mountains. During the Greyhawk Wars, the Duchy is overrun by giants, so the PCs likely wouldn't be getting involved in the way the module envisions. The actual dungeon delving will probably work as written though.

ToEE is set in 579 CY, so before the Greyhawk Wars. The starting point for ToEE, the village of Hommlet, isn't really affected by the Greyhawk Wars, so once again you can probably run the module just fine with a little tweaking (maybe there's some important political stuff later on, but since I've never finished ToEE, I couldn't say).

Scourge of the Slave Lords is set in 580 CY. The Greyhawk Wars alter the area where the adventure is set quite heavily, so it's probably easiest to run this before the Wars. WotC released a 2nd ed module called Slavers that takes place ten years later and goes into more depth about the changes that have taken place due to the Wars.

Against the Giants is also set before the Greyhawk Wars, but I don't know if an actual date or year is given. There's no specific location given for the adventure itself, but later Greyhawk publications place the events in or near the Duchy of Geoff (again).

The Greyhawk Wars themselves are interesting insofar as they change the political landscape of the Flanaess a fair bit, but I never felt this was actually needed. Playing through the Wars was fun though. I.e. I'm a little more fond of the setting pre-Wars, but there's some really good setting products that came out as a result of the shakeup as well, so all in all I can enjoy playing before, during, and after the Wars.

Hope this helps a little.

[KorvinStarmast]

We did the Slavers modules back in the 80's, which is before the Greyhawk Wars. The establishment of the Orchish Empire in that area means that it might be best to move the central location. There are a variety of ports along the coast further west where one could place it. Names change, the events don't.

Giants usually happens to the west of Verbobonc (see where the Crystal Mists and Hell Furnaces are).

ToEE likewise, that area changes little with the wars.

Barrier Peaks won't change.

White Plume Mountain won't change.

You can put the Tomb of Horrors anywhere you want to.

Lost Tamoachan can be most anywhere, but I have a spot south of the Hool Marshes that I think it belongs in.

[Tiktakkat]

I just wrote a whole article on this subject in a Greyhawk ezine, Visions of Greyhawk.

The short answer is:
Virtually all of the AD&D (1st ed., letter/number code) adventures can be run at any time, before, during, or after the Greyhawk Wars with minimal adjustments. That includes things like the A (Slavers) Series. They do not have any consequences that have any material effect on the subsequent course of the wars, several of them gain greater relevance if played during the wars, and only a few require some modifications for border changes after the wars.

Barrier Peaks is, at most, simply a bit more difficult to reach, and would require a slightly altered opening/push. During and post-wars it could have greater direct relevance.

ToEE has a single relevant element relating to the Return to module. It would have significantly greater relevance during and after the wars relating to events at those times.

Slave Lords requires minor tweaks for targets during and post-wars, and some rewrite of the presumed post-adventure events in the "sequel" to it, Slavers, from the GH 98 era.

Against the Giants, no spoilers, just again, way more significance during and after the wars. In fact, that is the premise of the 25th Anniversary reprint/sequel, Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff.

Age of Worms is technically not set in Greyhawk, though it very clearly is based on maps and locations, with certain names changed to protect the IP. It is functionally post-wars, though that make certain locations extra-difficult to access at that time, and there is no major consideration of that. There is an element of the final resolution that would contradict war events if it happens pre-wars. Still, it would require only minimal tweaks to adjust that for a campaign.

I can add more details, without spoilers, for more adventures if you like, but there are a lot of them, and the reply would get a lot longer.
I can also point you at some resources with more information on Greyhawk, including the adventures and their timing, if you want.

[Dr.Samurai]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, all the modules you mention except Age of Worms are set before the Greyhawk Wars, at least if you're referring to the AD&D modules.

Greyhawk Wars was published in 1991. Barrier Peaks was first published in 1980, ToEE in 1985, Scourge of the Slave Lords in 1986 (the individual modules had originally been published 1980-81), and Against the Giants in 1981. In short, when they were written, the Greyhawk Wars wasn't yet a thing.

Checking Wikipedia, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks doesn't have a setting date listed, but apparently the adventure introduction states the the Duchy of Geoff is under constant attack from monsters emerging from a cave in the mountains. During the Greyhawk Wars, the Duchy is overrun by giants, so the PCs likely wouldn't be getting involved in the way the module envisions. The actual dungeon delving will probably work as written though.

ToEE is set in 579 CY, so before the Greyhawk Wars. The starting point for ToEE, the village of Hommlet, isn't really affected by the Greyhawk Wars, so once again you can probably run the module just fine with a little tweaking (maybe there's some important political stuff later on, but since I've never finished ToEE, I couldn't say).

Scourge of the Slave Lords is set in 580 CY. The Greyhawk Wars alter the area where the adventure is set quite heavily, so it's probably easiest to run this before the Wars. WotC released a 2nd ed module called Slavers that takes place ten years later and goes into more depth about the changes that have taken place due to the Wars.

Against the Giants is also set before the Greyhawk Wars, but I don't know if an actual date or year is given. There's no specific location given for the adventure itself, but later Greyhawk publications place the events in or near the Duchy of Geoff (again).

The Greyhawk Wars themselves are interesting insofar as they change the political landscape of the Flanaess a fair bit, but I never felt this was actually needed. Playing through the Wars was fun though. I.e. I'm a little more fond of the setting pre-Wars, but there's some really good setting products that came out as a result of the shakeup as well, so all in all I can enjoy playing before, during, and after the Wars.

Hope this helps a little.


We did the Slavers modules back in the 80's, which is before the Greyhawk Wars. The establishment of the Orchish Empire in that area means that it might be best to move the central location. There are a variety of ports along the coast further west where one could place it. Names change, the events don't.

Giants usually happens to the west of Verbobonc (see where the Crystal Mists and Hell Furnaces are).

ToEE likewise, that area changes little with the wars.

Barrier Peaks won't change.

White Plume Mountain won't change.

You can put the Tomb of Horrors anywhere you want to.

Lost Tamoachan can be most anywhere, but I have a spot south of the Hool Marshes that I think it belongs in.


I just wrote a whole article on this subject in a Greyhawk ezine, Visions of Greyhawk.

The short answer is:
Virtually all of the AD&D (1st ed., letter/number code) adventures can be run at any time, before, during, or after the Greyhawk Wars with minimal adjustments. That includes things like the A (Slavers) Series. They do not have any consequences that have any material effect on the subsequent course of the wars, several of them gain greater relevance if played during the wars, and only a few require some modifications for border changes after the wars.

Barrier Peaks is, at most, simply a bit more difficult to reach, and would require a slightly altered opening/push. During and post-wars it could have greater direct relevance.

ToEE has a single relevant element relating to the Return to module. It would have significantly greater relevance during and after the wars relating to events at those times.

Slave Lords requires minor tweaks for targets during and post-wars, and some rewrite of the presumed post-adventure events in the "sequel" to it, Slavers, from the GH 98 era.

Against the Giants, no spoilers, just again, way more significance during and after the wars. In fact, that is the premise of the 25th Anniversary reprint/sequel, Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff.

Age of Worms is technically not set in Greyhawk, though it very clearly is based on maps and locations, with certain names changed to protect the IP. It is functionally post-wars, though that make certain locations extra-difficult to access at that time, and there is no major consideration of that. There is an element of the final resolution that would contradict war events if it happens pre-wars. Still, it would require only minimal tweaks to adjust that for a campaign.

I can add more details, without spoilers, for more adventures if you like, but there are a lot of them, and the reply would get a lot longer.
I can also point you at some resources with more information on Greyhawk, including the adventures and their timing, if you want.

Thank you all. This is all very helpful. Sounds like, for the most part, the Wars don't have a huge impact on the modules and there's a lot of flexibility, which is nice. One thing I'm not quite sure on is... when Geoff is overrun by giants during the Wars, is that meant to be when ATG is taking place, or simply another time that giants are invading the Valley?

One other sort of completely unrelated question lol... does Hextor have any alliance with the Lords of Hell? I know he is known as the Herald of Hell, which is strange given that, presumably, as a god he is more powerful than the Archdukes. But are there any formal alliances? (Also, is Asmodeus a god in Greyhawk or just ruler over the other Archdukes?)

@Tiktakkat: I'd be very interested in any other sources you can point me to, and I'd be interested in other modules as well. I'd like to run my players through Greyhawk, but more of a sandbox game, and am interested to see how I can weave various parts of the setting together if possible.

Thank you all again!

[Khedrac]

One thing I'm not quite sure on is... when Geoff is overrun by giants during the Wars, is that meant to be when ATG is taking place, or simply another time that giants are invading the Valley?

Since G1-3 were very early AD&D modules and for some years Gary Gygax worte event updates for the Flanaess which were published in Dragon it is definitely another invasion during the wars (as I understand it it is a lot more of an "invasion" than the original assult in G1-3).

[Dr.Samurai]

Since G1-3 were very early AD&D modules and for some years Gary Gygax worte event updates for the Flanaess which were published in Dragon it is definitely another invasion during the wars (as I understand it it is a lot more of an "invasion" than the original assult in G1-3).
Got it, so Liberation of Geoff is not a sort of remake. Thank you!

Another question... do most of you play it as Tharizdun is the Elemental Evil Eye? I've read that the connections are sort of weak and not intended, and Gary treated them both as separate entities. Any thoughts on this?

[Tiktakkat]

Got it, so Liberation of Geoff is not a sort of remake. Thank you!

Another question... do most of you play it as Tharizdun is the Elemental Evil Eye? I've read that the connections are sort of weak and not intended, and Gary treated them both as separate entities. Any thoughts on this?

Liberation of Geoff contains a reprint of the originals along with three additional giant strongholds, effectively G4-G6, along with a minor sourcebook for Geoff.

Yes, Gary had them as completely different entities. Even without that, I was strongly inclined to have them be different and ignore the later conflation as I did not see them as being particularly compatible, and have since developed it that way in my campaign.

[Dr.Samurai]

Liberation of Geoff contains a reprint of the originals along with three additional giant strongholds, effectively G4-G6, along with a minor sourcebook for Geoff.
Oh good to know it also serves as a sort of sourcebook. I'll nab it after our party finishes Against the Giants.

Would those additional strongholds be Stone, Cloud, and Storm?

Yes, Gary had them as completely different entities. Even without that, I was strongly inclined to have them be different and ignore the later conflation as I did not see them as being particularly compatible, and have since developed it that way in my campaign.
I've read a bit on these and the connections did seem rather weak.

I received your DM, thank you very much for sharing!

[Tarmor]

Oh good to know it also serves as a sort of sourcebook. I'll nab it after our party finishes Against the Giants. Would those additional strongholds be Stone, Cloud, and Storm?

G4 is basically Frost Giants, G5 Fire Giants, and G6 Cloud Giants. There are heaps of small "sites" in Geoff and linked with G4-6 that involve Ogres, Orcs, Hill Giants, Formorians, Cyclopskin, Verbeeg, Ettins, and a single Fog Giant.

[Beelzebub1111]

White Plume Mountain won't change.


So long as it takes place 25 years before return to white plume.