I want to play a Sorcerer but don't like any of there sudclasses

[Throne12]

As the title says. So are there any 3rd party subclasses that are balanced? Or is there anyway to reflavor Existing ones that might make me want to play them.

[Amechra]

Or is there anyway to reflavor Existing ones that might make me want to play them.

Would you might telling us what kinds of subclasses might make you interested in playing the Sorcerer? We can't read your mind, so we don't know why the existing subclasses don't do it for you.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

As the title says. So are there any 3rd party subclasses that are balanced? Or is there anyway to reflavor Existing ones that might make me want to play them.

Take a subclass from another class and modify it.

Like, I played a Sorcerer that had the Evoker subclass.

Evocation Savant gave the Sorcerer an additional meta magic option that could be used 1/short rest without SP cost (can be used with SP any other time).

[paladinn]

I have to say, the Divine Soul is one of the Few reasons anymore to play a sorcerer. Even if you're limited in spells known, you eventually have access to the cleric spell list. So you can blast and heal. And for more fun, MC with paladin: blast, heal and smite! And all CHA-sad!

[Leon]

What is it about Sorcerer that makes you want to play one and what kind of themes do you like

[H_H_F_F]

There's a lot of homebrew out there. Do you dislike existing options for fluff reasons or mechanical reasons? Would you like more/less versatility, build choices, etc?

[Amnestic]

I've got a few in my homebrew index in my signature, but I do think the questions of a) why you want to play a Sorcerer specifically and b) what you think the existing subclasses are lacking is something you'd need to work out first. Are your issues something that can be fixed with a few tweaks, rather than a full homebrew subclass of their own, or is theme the problem?

[Witty Username]

As the title says. So are there any 3rd party subclasses that are balanced? Or is there anyway to reflavor Existing ones that might make me want to play them.

What subclasses have you looked at so far? Do you have specific mechanics or themes that you found frustrating, what concept are you going for?

[KorvinStarmast]

I've got a few in my homebrew index in my signature, but I do think the questions of a) why you want to play a Sorcerer specifically and b) what you think the existing subclasses are lacking is something you'd need to work out first. Are your issues something that can be fixed with a few tweaks, rather than a full homebrew subclass of their own, or is theme the problem? The OP came off to me as "I want a burger, but I don't like beef" but these are two useful points to clear up:

a) why you want to play a Sorcerer, specifically
We can't help the OP until that's explained.
Hello, Throne12, can you elaborate on this?

b) what you think the existing subclasses are lacking is something you'd need to work out first

There may also be a limitation at their table (no Xanathar's, or No Tasha's, or something like that, which may inform the frustration.
Hello, Throne12, can you elaborate on this?

Or is there anyway to reflavor Existing ones that might make me want to play them.
Given how little info you offered, we'd need to be able to read your mind first.
Mosst of us can't do that.

[CTurbo]

Draconic is sort of the generic Sorcerer subclass that doesn't add a whole lot of extras over the base class. Just makes it a little tougher and hit a little harder. I'd go with that.

[NontheistCleric]

Draconic is sort of the generic Sorcerer subclass that doesn't add a whole lot of extras over the base class. Just makes it a little tougher and hit a little harder. I'd go with that.

It does come with a very specific flavor, though. I didn't like a lot of the Sorcerer content in 3.5 because of how hard it pushed the 'dragon descendant' theme, and while I appreciate that it's now only one of many options in 5E, I do think many of its subclasses still have the problem of 'Why does my magic have to have this particular theme? Can't I just be an awesome magic person, no questions asked?"

For me, Divine Soul and Aberrant Mind are the Sorcerer subclasses closest to 'generic magic'. They mostly just expand casting options and don't have features that demand an explanation tied to anything in particular.

[Amnestic]

It does come with a very specific flavor, though. I didn't like a lot of the Sorcerer content in 3.5 because of how hard it pushed the 'dragon descendant' theme, and while I appreciate that it's now only one of many options in 5E, I do think many of its subclasses still have the problem of 'Why does my magic have to have this particular theme? Can't I just be an awesome magic person, no questions asked?"

Wild is awesome magic person, but I suppose it does raise the question of how silly it's going to get this session.

I have seen at least one homebrew bloodline for 'arcane lineage (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/rbk1fc/arcane_lineage_a_generic_sorcerer_a_character_who/)', which is about as close as you could get.

I do wonder if the choice not to do 'generic' is deliberate though. Easier to have Sorcerers be 'othered' and weird if they have to draw their lineage to weirdness instead of just some people being born as magical powerhouses.

[NontheistCleric]

Wild is awesome magic person, but I suppose it does raise the question of how silly it's going to get this session.

Yeah, Wild Magic has a very distinct theme that may not fit with everyone's vision for a pure magic person.


I do wonder if the choice not to do 'generic' is deliberate though. Easier to have Sorcerers be 'othered' and weird if they have to draw their lineage to weirdness instead of just some people being born as magical powerhouses.

Do they need to be 'othered' and weird, though? I can see why they might be in particular campaigns, but it seems an odd decision to make them that way by default, especially if they're meant to cover inherently magical folk in general (and it seems that they are, since no other classes in the PHB have similar flavor).

[Amnestic]

Do they need to be 'othered' and weird, though?

I mean, personal opinion but yeah. Setting wise humans aren't innately 'magical' (read: spellcasters) in a way which is intrinsic to them without a bit of weirdness that came from somewhere, and that's the sorcerer origins/lineages/bloodlines. I think there's more fodder for a character who's weird than who's just "I'm generically good at magic" that way.

[NontheistCleric]

Well, I will grant that yes, it's weird for humans to be doing magic at all–but in my opinion, there is also plenty of narrative room in most worlds for people whose 'weird' thing is to simply be that they are magical, without further elaboration needed.

That's not to say there can't be individual differences, of course, but I do think that the ubiquity of magic in PC options sometimes blinds us to the fact that to most NPCs in a D&D world, magic is strange and special in and of itself. It's an incomprehensible force, and all the chanting and hand-waving and spell components are barely scratching the surface of something deep and profound.

Maybe the power does come from somewhere, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe there's something about that sorceress over there we simply can't explain–and maybe if you asked her, you'd find she can't explain it either.

Sometimes I even think that the kind of mystic atmosphere I look for in magic is really best found in the monk, but of course, that class got saddled with a ton of baggage of its own.

There's a place for people who definitely know that their Fire Bolts come from their gold dragon great-grandfather, or that they got their powers from a bolt of elemental lightning, or whatever it may be. Still, to me, it feels like these things are moving away from the truly magical and somewhere into the realm of superhero origins instead–just as wizards often make magic look a bit too much like science for me.

[KorvinStarmast]

Until we have heard back from the OP, Throne12, this seems a fruitless discussion.

[Leon]

Until we have heard back from the OP, Throne12, this seems a fruitless discussion.

This forum is very good at fruitless discussion

[Willowhelm]

This forum is very good at fruitless discussion

Doing something a lot doesn’t mean you’re good at it.

[Goobahfish]

I don't really like any of the Sorcerer subclasses either. Divine Soul is pretty good, but that is a very specific build (holy-sorcerer). The others just don't really go anywhere for me.

That said... this is a very pointless thread until more information is given (obviously I am not the first to note this).

[Throne12]

Sorry I've been extra busy at work. So I like the Sorcerer meta magic. That really the biggest reason why I want to play one. I read over the all the sudclasses for Sorcerer on beyond and I just didn't like any of them. It's not something I can explain other then they didn't inspire a character idea. So I'm looking for other sudclasses and ideas.

[NontheistCleric]

Are there any character ideas you would like to play? Maybe we can help you figure out how Sorcerer and its subclasses can fit into that.

[RSP]

Sorry I've been extra busy at work. So I like the Sorcerer meta magic. That really the biggest reason why I want to play one. I read over the all the sudclasses for Sorcerer on beyond and I just didn't like any of them. It's not something I can explain other then they didn't inspire a character idea. So I'm looking for other sudclasses and ideas.

Are you solely interested in mechanics?

If not, the RP of where your Sorcerer abilities stem from might answer the question. I’m assuming none of the RP in the ready made subclasses piqued your interest, but if you have some sort of idea, we can probably help with with what story (if any) you’re going with.

If it’s a mechanical issue, can you provide more insight into what you’re looking for? Mechanically, the subclasses cover a lot of ground already, but what is/isn’t of interest to you may help us in helping you as well.

[Throne12]

Are there any character ideas you would like to play? Maybe we can help you figure out how Sorcerer and its subclasses can fit into that.

No. I never start character creation with a person already though up. I usually roll on charts for background stuff. And come up with a personality ect.

So non of the flavor or sudclass Mechanics spark anything.

[NontheistCleric]

Is there anything that sparks anything? Maybe a concept that came from, say, the Wizard or Fighter class, but could also conceivably incorporate or be done with Sorcerer.

[CTurbo]

Ask your DM if you can be a Wizard and trade Ritual Casting and Arcane Recovery for Sorcery(Wizardry!) Points and Metamagic? Seems reasonable to me. Their spell lists are very similar, and you'd know more spells, but I can't think of anything that'd be broken about it.

[sithlordnergal]

No. I never start character creation with a person already though up. I usually roll on charts for background stuff. And come up with a personality ect.

So non of the flavor or sudclass Mechanics spark anything.

So...It looks like you're just after the mechanics, so lets start there. Do you want a mechanically simple character, a mechanically complex character, or a character with random mechanics?

[Leon]

Outside of the Class or even game what Themes or things do you like or have played before and have enjoyed.

[RSP]

I believe there was a melee Sorcerer in a UA. That would be the glaring omission to Sorcerer mechanics, so far as I can see (though if wanting a melee Sorcerer, Clockwork holds up fine).

Draconic is good for blasting
Divine Soul for buffing/healing
Clockwork for multiple play styles
Shadow for control
Storm for little bursts of flying
Wild for just wanting to have a campaign run wild with randomness.

Outside of that, again, we’d need more info on what you’re looking for in order to the answer the question of “I want metamagic but don’t like any of the mechanics offered so far”.

[Throne12]

So I was talking to my group and I decided to play a Valor bard. He was an Adventure tried to Retire and settle down but it just didn't happen the way he thought so he picked his sword back up to travel and train new and younger adventures.he was a fighter but old age takes your physical capabilities so instead he uses his knowledge of pass adventures and magical knowledge to be a Valor bard.

We are using playtest 7 stuff. Dm giving us first lve feat I'm taking the feat for a eldritch invocation to pick up pact of the blade so he can use Charisma to attack with. I'm flavoring it as he so Proficient & practices with the sword he doesn't need brute straight to land a serious wound.


So thanks for the help. And sorry if it was a waste of your time.

[tchntm43]

I recently just started playing a Tiefling Lunar Sorcerer. It has some interesting fun mechanics.

I would be all over the Wild Magic subclass if it weren't for having the chance to TPK at the beginning of the game. Not just awful for the player, but imagine how pissed all the other players would be if that happened.

I feel Wild Magic would have been better if it added options to the random list as you leveled up. The self-Fireball option shouldn't appear until reaching level 5.

[Hytheter]

Doing something a lot doesn’t mean you’re good at it.

TFW you try to do a fruitless discussion but accidentally come up with something compelling and meaningful

[Arkhios]

So I was talking to my group and I decided to play a Valor bard. He was an Adventure tried to Retire and settle down but it just didn't happen the way he thought so he picked his sword back up to travel and train new and younger adventures.he was a fighter but old age takes your physical capabilities so instead he uses his knowledge of pass adventures and magical knowledge to be a Valor bard.

We are using playtest 7 stuff. Dm giving us first lve feat I'm taking the feat for a eldritch invocation to pick up pact of the blade so he can use Charisma to attack with. I'm flavoring it as he so Proficient & practices with the sword he doesn't need brute straight to land a serious wound.


So thanks for the help. And sorry if it was a waste of your time.

I'm a bit late to the party, but nevertheless, I don't think this was a waste of my time. Your latest post (quoted) sparked an idea: Would it be balanced if you were to replace Bardic Inspiration and/or Song of Rest with Metamagic and/or Font of Magic.

[Unoriginal]

Worth noting that a Bard can take the Metamagic Adept feat.

[Amnestic]

I believe there was a melee Sorcerer in a UA. That would be the glaring omission to Sorcerer mechanics, so far as I can see (though if wanting a melee Sorcerer, Clockwork holds up fine).

Stone Sorcerer's UA was pretty close; didn't get any buffs to its melee attacks but did give you shield+weapon proficiencies, 13+ConMod AC, +1 HP/Level, and a bunch of smite spells on your spell list.

...and that was just at 1st level.


I recently just started playing a Tiefling Lunar Sorcerer. It has some interesting fun mechanics.

I would be all over the Wild Magic subclass if it weren't for having the chance to TPK at the beginning of the game. Not just awful for the player, but imagine how pissed all the other players would be if that happened.

I feel Wild Magic would have been better if it added options to the random list as you leveled up. The self-Fireball option shouldn't appear until reaching level 5.

Personally I swapped the Fireball for a Slow spell on the Surge list, hitting you and up to 5 random targets near you. Still potentially devastating, but less almost certain TPK at low levels (and potentially much more painful later in life, when you've got more attacks to play with).

[Willie the Duck]

I know it's not my place, but if a mod could fix the there/their in the thread title, it'd be awesome for my neurotic brain.


I mean, personal opinion but yeah. Setting wise humans aren't innately 'magical' (read: spellcasters) in a way which is intrinsic to them without a bit of weirdness that came from somewhere, and that's the sorcerer origins/lineages/bloodlines. I think there's more fodder for a character who's weird than who's just "I'm generically good at magic" that way.


Well, I will grant that yes, it's weird for humans to be doing magic at all–but in my opinion, there is also plenty of narrative room in most worlds for people whose 'weird' thing is to simply be that they are magical, without further elaboration needed.

That's not to say there can't be individual differences, of course, but I do think that the ubiquity of magic in PC options sometimes blinds us to the fact that to most NPCs in a D&D world, magic is strange and special in and of itself. It's an incomprehensible force, and all the chanting and hand-waving and spell components are barely scratching the surface of something deep and profound.

Maybe the power does come from somewhere, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe there's something about that sorceress over there we simply can't explain–and maybe if you asked her, you'd find she can't explain it either.

Sometimes I even think that the kind of mystic atmosphere I look for in magic is really best found in the monk, but of course, that class got saddled with a ton of baggage of its own.

There's a place for people who definitely know that their Fire Bolts come from their gold dragon great-grandfather, or that they got their powers from a bolt of elemental lightning, or whatever it may be. Still, to me, it feels like these things are moving away from the truly magical and somewhere into the realm of superhero origins instead–just as wizards often make magic look a bit too much like science for me.

I think there is room for a subclass which communicates either a 'I don't know what the magical ancestor-ship is,' or a general 'mom or dad experienced a magic ______ before I was born and that general magic-ness stuck with them and became part of our lineage.' For my money, that would have been a better 'generic' sorcerer rather than the draconic one that seems to be communicated as the default (yes, for 3e legacy reasons). Wild magic kind of has the same unclear exposure deal, but a definitely non-generic chaos theme.

[Arkhios]

I know it's not my place, but if a mod could fix the there/their in the thread title, it'd be awesome for my neurotic brain.

I'm with you. To be fair, I think it's not their (mods') place either, but this particular grammar error is nigh unbearable for me too. I try, actively, to not think about it, but it still nags at me in the back of my head. It's not a voluntary reaction.

[Hytheter]

I think there is room for a subclass which communicates either a 'I don't know what the magical ancestor-ship is,' or a general 'mom or dad experienced a magic ______ before I was born and that general magic-ness stuck with them and became part of our lineage.' For my money, that would have been a better 'generic' sorcerer rather than the draconic one that seems to be communicated as the default (yes, for 3e legacy reasons). Wild magic kind of has the same unclear exposure deal, but a definitely non-generic chaos theme.

I think a more generic sorcerer could also work well for "descended from a long line of wizards" or even just "magical prodigy." The hurdle, though, is coming up with features that are appropriately theme-neutral without being boring.

[NontheistCleric]

I'm not sure that theme-neutrality is necessarily more in danger of being boring than anything else, or at least, not boring in a bad way.

Battle Master, Champion and Samurai (I know it's called Samurai but it doesn't have much that couldn't work for almost any Fighter) are all fairly theme-neutral, and that doesn't stop people from playing and enjoying them.

Basically, if what you want is a theme-neutral Sorcerer, then any drawbacks from a lack of distinct theme beyond 'Sorcerer' are actually a feature–because that's what you wanted.