Will I feel stupid if I use this build or something similar?

[Ghostie]

I want to play a cleric for melee (all 3.5 material, no pathfinder) I thought it would be fun to play a human, half minotaur template, from dragon mag 313 I think, I will most likely take a flaw for another tasty feat, although I am unsure what flaw. I want to take a level or two of fighter possibly for martial weapons and heavy armor, my main aim is to have a base size of large, use enlarge person on myself, use monkey grip feat and use gargantuan greatsword or falchion :smallbiggrin: I was thinking of using divine metamagic and persistent metamagic to make that enlarge go longer (other self buffs too probably) I'd like to hear some advice on what weapon would be better, classes or PrCs I may want to use, better ways to achieve the idea I'm looking for (I know monkey grip isnt optimal but gargantuan size is the least non optimal lmao) spells, races, templates, ways to build it as a whole, I'm open to suggestions or if this idea is just totally awful then please tell me before I regret it. I am new so please try to take it easy:smalleek:

[Boci]

You're combining enough incredibly powerful ideas (half-minotaur, divine metamagic, cleric) and bad ideas (2 levels in fighter dip, monkey grip) to average out to a decent/above average melee character. you certainly won't feel stupid, unless the rest of the party is taking similarly powerful options without the bad ones to curb themselves.

[Rebel7284]

Depends on the optimization level of your party, but in general, if you allow the Half-Minotaur as written (so getting the extra size bonuses to stats), it does break the game at low levels.

You can't persist Enlarge Person since it has Close range rather than a fixed or personal range.

Taking levels or two of fighter may make you slightly better at very low levels (when the template is most egregious) and then weaker in mid-high levels since you'll be behind in what spells you can persist.

I have built a very simple Half Minotaur Goliath Barbarian 1/Fighter 1 for my little brother in the past for a short campaign (powerful built resulting in Huge Weapons), and it made combat unfun for a low OP table.

Whether or not you feel stupid, you may need to roleplay some stupidity since Half-Minotaurs have -2 Int.

[Chronos]

You can't persist Enlarge Person, but you can persist Righteous Might, which is better anyway.

One issue is that there are a lot of places where a Huge character, or even a Large one, simply won't fit.

[Biggus]

use enlarge person on myself, use monkey grip feat and use gargantuan greatsword or falchion :smallbiggrin: I was thinking of using divine metamagic and persistent metamagic to make that enlarge go longer (other self buffs too probably)



You can't persist Enlarge Person since it has Close range rather than a fixed or personal range.


Enlarge Person isn't a Cleric spell generally, but it is available via the Strength domain. You'd only get it once per day but you could invest in a few pearls of power (and maybe a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell to make it last longer).

The Spell Compendium has Greater Enlarge Person which lasts an hour per level, but it's a 5th-level Sorcerer/Wizard only spell. I only mention that for completeness since that's the same spell level as Righteous Might, which IS persistable.

Of course, the downside of being Huge sized all day is that you have a lot of difficulty if you have to go down dungeons, or indeed inside in general. Maybe buy a wand of Reduce Person for the party Wizard/ Sorcerer/ UMD user to cast on you at those times? It's dismissable so they can remove it as soon as it's not needed.

[Gnaeus]

Of course, the downside of being Huge sized all day is that you have a lot of difficulty if you have to go down dungeons, or indeed inside in general. Maybe buy a wand of Reduce Person for the party Wizard/ Sorcerer/ UMD user to cast on you at those times? It's dismissable so they can remove it as soon as it's not needed.

Is there a ruling around the spell text that says that reduce person counters and dispels enlarge person? I think the obvious ruling is that the enlarge person is dispelled and doesn't come back when you D the reduce.

[Bronk]

I want to play a cleric for melee (all 3.5 material, no pathfinder)...

I want to take a level or two of fighter possibly for martial weapons and heavy armor...

You could skip the fighter levels for your idea... Clerics already get heavy armor, and if you become a War domain cleric, and you'll also get a weapon focus bonus feat and a martial weapon proficiency bonus feat to go along with it. You'd just have to pick a god with the right associated weapon.

[H_H_F_F]

Depends on the optimization level of your party.

Wanted to really highlight this. Builds are good if they're fun to play and fit the table, and bad if they're not fun to play and don't fit the table. Talk to your DM and fellow players. If you hear "I'm going to play a half-elf Hexblade with a bastard sword and a shield, and be edgy and cool", reconsider your entire approach. Believe me: having your fellow players and DM in awe of your character annihilating an encounter is fun once or twice, but it gets real un-fun real fast.

If you find that your group plays low-op, but you still want to optimize, consider optimizing a weak base, or hyper-focusing on a niche specialization. That way, you'll be in line with the rest of the party, but get to shine here and there, and still enjoy the character-building aspect of the game.

In other news: You mentioned being a noobie. If you mean that you have no experience in 3.5 at all, I think you might find you're having a hard time squeezing as much juice as you'd like from cleric, and getting overwhelmed quite fast. If you'd like to play a self-buffing divine champion, there are plenty of ways outside of T1 to do that.

[Ghostie]

You'd just have to pick a god with the right associated weapon..

To be honest, I think although that would be considerably stronger, I may still dip fighter for a few reasons: 1. More diverse selection of weapons as there are no falchion gods to my knowledge and only one or two greatsword gods 2. Flavor and backstory wise I want to be a cleric of Pelor or a god similar in nature 3. I think considering I'm not too sure what the OP level of the rest of the group might look like, watering down the otherwise quite powerful build may help

[Ghostie]

If you mean that you have no experience in 3.5 at all, I think you might find you're having a hard time squeezing as much juice as you'd like from cleric, and getting overwhelmed quite fast. If you'd like to play a self-buffing divine champion


I have some 3.5 experience, I played Sorc in a campaign levels 1-9 I believe, I mention I'm new is because that was a while ago and that character was the opposite of optimized (half-elf)

If you have any kinds of words of wisdom regarding getting the juice of the cleric, my ears are open:smallsmile: I would also be open to hearing the other options to play a self-buffing melee champion

[Rebel7284]

1. More diverse selection of weapons as there are no falchion gods to my knowledge

Internet says Anhur (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) and Xan Yae (Complete Divine) have Falchion.

There are also a few that have Spiked Chain as well, which is most DMs allow, although War domain technically gives you Martial proficiency, not exotic...

As far as playing a Cleric, I think it really takes off once you have third level spells and can use a lesser rod of extend to make spells last for 48 hours.

Persisting
Channeled Divine Shield
Vigor, Lesser Mass
Elation
Ice Axe (or Darkfire depending on what enemies you see)

nice to have but not required
Cloud of Knives
Divine Retaliation
Adoration of the Frightful (good combo spell if anyone in the party does intimidation)

Once you have 4th level spells, Divine Power is a staple and Holy Transformation, Lesser is very good.

5th level has the aforementioned Righteous Might and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful

Once you turn yourself into a resilient combat monster you mostly either hit stuff, prevent your enemies from being useful by using Close Wounds as an immediate action so that you can both Heal AND full attack, and maybe a Resurgence or two.

Edit: while holy transformation is typically good, it does make you medium, so maybe avoid that outside of cramped spaces.

[Menzath]

I see some good advice but as far as what type of weapon you want that depends.

You most likely are not going to be a crit build so whatever you want really. When you get 3rd level spells and can use anyspell to cast mighty wallop, one handed bludgeoning weapons will hit as hard as 2handers if other weapon types.
And when you have access to 6th level spells for anyspell, greater and can use it to cast mighty wallop greater,greater so just about any bludgeoning weapon will have far greater damage dice than other weapon types.

From my experience as a melee what could help you immensely is abilities/feats that increase your natural reach. Bigger reach is more better.
The other thing you may want to increase(via spells or feats) is move speed.

[Maat Mons]

If you’re going to be a Human, you could qualify for the Militia feat (Player’s Guide to Faerun, p41). It gives you proficiency with all martial weapons. It’s one of my favorite options for melee Clerics. It is a regional feat, which means you can only take it at 1st level, taking it locks you out of other regional feats, and you’ll need to work something out with your DM if the game isn’t set in Faerun.

When you say, “no Pathfinder,” do you just mean nothing from the actual Pathfinder game, or are you also ruling out that one book Paizo put out for using their setting with 3.5? That book had an ACF for Cleric that’s kind of interesting for low-level games. You lose your domains, but gain full base attack bonus, d10 hit dice, and proficiency with your deity’s favored weapon. It drops off pretty sharply at mid-levels and higher though.

[Ghostie]

you could qualify for the Militia feat

That would be amazing. Simple as that, very useful.

In response to what Menzath said, if I choose to use the anyspell mighty wallop, does anyone know what would the be the best weapon be for that?

Thank you guys for all the helpful replies:smallbiggrin:

[Maat Mons]

For Greater Mighty Wallop, warmace, from Complete Warrior, is a decent option. It’s a 2d6 damage bludgeoning weapon that can be used 2-handed as a martial weapon. It does impose a -1 penalty to your AC when you wield it though.

I forgot to mention Strongarm Bracers (Magic Item Compendium, p139) in my last post. They’re 6,000 gp and let you wield weapons as if one size category larger. Explicitly doesn’t stack with Powerful Build.