A request for more build ideas to implement.

[SangoProduction]

The eh... holiday has been extended to a week. So I'm sitting at home, not earning money with my already infrequent job. (And I already harvested all my honey, and sold off most of it.)
I desperately need something to distract me.
I could use ChatGPT to generate a bunch of build ideas that aren't power-level-reliant for me to tackle. But it simply doesn't have the same ring as when I help implement an actual person's build idea.

[Kurald Galain]

Sure. I'm interested in a Dirty Trick-focused build that comes online as early as possible (and for this build I'm only focused on levels 1 thru 10). I actually have a rough draft but I'm curious what you'll come up with.

[Serafina]

I was just working on a thread about that myself, and may still post it later, but since you may use this for build ideas yourself I may as well quickly post it here:
There are several archetype combinations that allow you to stack Spheres of Guile with Spheres of Might or Power or both. Not the published champion archetypes, but rather combining two archetypes. This also tends to provide a really good talent progression.

I've found the following:

Alchemist with Sphere Alchemist and Machinist:
Gains a Competent Trade Rank, Journeyman Operative Progression, and is a Medium Spherecaster. Wants to use the Artifice Sphere and be a Bomber.
At 10th level this would be 15 talents + 5 utility talents + 5 Discovieries.

Bard with Champion Bard and Thespian:
Gains an Adroit Trade Rank, Trained Operative Progression, and is a Medium Spherecaster with 3/4 Blended Talents. Gains a bonus Performance Sphere talent at 1st and every 5th level, but is otherwise a fairly standard Bard.
At 10th level this would be 16 Talents + 5 utility talents

Monk with Erudite Soul and either Master of Many Stances or Street Fighter:
Gains a Competent Trade Rank, Trained Operative Progression, and Expert Practitoner Progression. Also gains the Investigation-Sphere as a bonus talent and a bonus talent from it at 4th, 12th, and 20th level, and works off Intelligence. The Street Fighter is fairly vanilla (though gains different Style Strike from Erudite), while the Master of Many Stances is about SoM Stances.
At 10th level that would be 18 talents + 5 utility talents + 4 Ki powers

Unchained Rogue with Grifter and Canny Scoundrel:
Gains a Competent Trade Rank, Journeyman Operative Progression (Virtuoso if they trade out Rogue's Edge!), and Adept Practitioner Progression. Trade Debilitating Injury for the Agent's Devious Techniques, and lose Trapfinding and Dangersense, and all Rogue Talents (!). Still, that is a lot of talents, and you keep some goodies from Rogue.
At 10th levle that would be 22 talents + 5 utility talents.

Skald with Primordia and Sphere Skald:
Gets an Adroit Trade Rank, but no Operative Progression. Is a Mid-Caster. Gets the Artifice-Sphere, and some Songs that interact with it.



None of that is a specific build suggestion of course, but hey maybe you can do something with one of those.

[Serafina]

Actually, circling back through my notes:
The Tribal Champion (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/tribal-champion) Unchained Barbarian can always have Retainers provide assistance in combat. They won't right directly, but they'll deliver items and provide Aid Another. This kicks in at level 2, so it's dippable.
I am curious whether that enables a build where Faction Sphere Retainers are used to assist in combat, and what you'd make that look like.

[Bucky]

An elite NPC Earth-element Kineticist specialized for combat in narrow tunnels and increasingly for creating and reshaping such an environment at higher levels. I've suspected for a while that such a build could either be the centerpiece of a very challenging encounter, or ally with the PCs to give them a fun and powerful tactical tool for an arc without stealing anyone's job. But I haven't built or run it.

Any choice of secondary element is fine.

[SangoProduction]

Sure. I'm interested in a Dirty Trick-focused build that comes online as early as possible (and for this build I'm only focused on levels 1 thru 10). I actually have a rough draft but I'm curious what you'll come up with.

Alright, we'll take the spheres class: Conscript, specializing in Scoundrel (which adds a bit of damage and stagger on dirty trick, by level 10, as well as +1 to the roll).

Then we will take the Scoundrel sphere, whose base ability gives them -2 to CMD as a swift action touch attack, and lets you use Dex in place of Str and ranks in SoH rather than BaB (not relevant for Conscript, but if you wanted to multiclass), whenever using Steal or dirty trick. Additionally, you get to add your unarmed enhancement bonus to those checks.

And now you've got a functional enough level 1 Dirty Trick build that can spend its level 1 feat on Imp Dirty Trick.
For recommendations on the rest of the talents to take, I'd look at my Scoundrel spheres in review (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yqkbxu7wA7BuECNEiGEE5b0TRt2MkV5zNRtjvuH5cTI/edit). Each good talent you take, although not necessary, does make you gradually better at dirty trick. And you get a lot as a Conscript.

If you're looking for an unconventional dirty trick build, you can actually make use of Sniper sphere to potentially even do it better than the conventional version. I go into more details here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646522-Tricky-Sniping-(Spheres-in-Review)&p=25482043#post25482043).
-------------------


I was just working on a thread about that myself, and may still post it later, but since you may use this for build ideas yourself I may as well quickly post it here:
There are several archetype combinations that allow you to stack Spheres of Guile with Spheres of Might or Power or both. Not the published champion archetypes, but rather combining two archetypes. This also tends to provide a really good talent progression.

[snip]

I'm sorry, I don't mess with Spheres of Guile. I just have nothing interesting to say about them. But I look forward to your post.


Actually, circling back through my notes:
The Tribal Champion (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/tribal-champion) Unchained Barbarian can always have Retainers provide assistance in combat. They won't right directly, but they'll deliver items and provide Aid Another. This kicks in at level 2, so it's dippable.
I am curious whether that enables a build where Faction Sphere Retainers are used to assist in combat, and what you'd make that look like.

You're really getting me out of my comfort zone with a simultaneously aid another and leadership focused build, and bloody spheres of guile. But let's do it. (Good news... I think the faction sphere might be the most acceptable of the leadership spheres, on first glance - I think I need to make an SoR on it.)

We are going to be a leader of a tribe of halflings. They will each have the Helpful trait to make the base bonus +4. (Which, given the fluff of Faction, being that you're requisitioning from a faction that exists, then you should be able to specifically ask for particularly helpful halflings, if they exist. Regular Helpful is only +3 but it's fine if halflings are off the table.)
There's also no explicitly allowed building of your retainers, outside of which skills they have and the authorizations you spend. So you cannot reliably have more detailed builds for your retainers. You DM might allow it just so he doesn't have to though. In which case, I recommend they take the Helping (Purring feat), which also gives them free action aid anothers.
... But an "NPC of their profession," especially the combatant retainers, might spend the feats on aid another training. potentially. (And given that the Bodyguard feat seems pretty fitting for a Warden retainer, you could suggest it.)
Also, Cavaliers of of the Order of the Dragon can gain bonus to aid another, and both driver and warden are retainer types. There's a chance they exist.

We only get 1 (useful) retainer per 2 talents we spend, so we need to maximize talents we gain, since Aid Another stacks. So we'll be taking the Professional class, with obviously the Faction method for bonus faction sphere.
We can stretch the retainer deals, since the ability says they always consider combat assistance, but most 1-authorization retainers are explicitly for situations very much not expected to be dangerous. Now, if it turns dangerous, unexpectedly, then I'd say it's fine. Regardless, let's assume we have to use 2 authorizations for a reliable combat retainer.

And I was unable to find anything that helped you be aided, rather than help you to aid others. But you can buy items and put them on your retainers.

So: Benevolent adds the weapon's enhancement modifier to aid another. If you've got Enhancement sphere, you can buy a bunch of +1 Benevolent weapons, and mass enhance them to +5 or even +6. (Or have someone who isn't spending all their talents on retains do so.
Ring of Tactical Precision is 11k for just +1 to aid another... But it's there.



An elite NPC Earth-element Kineticist specialized for combat in narrow tunnels and increasingly for creating and reshaping such an environment at higher levels. I've suspected for a while that such a build could either be the centerpiece of a very challenging encounter, or ally with the PCs to give them a fun and powerful tactical tool for an arc without stealing anyone's job. But I haven't built or run it.

Any choice of secondary element is fine.

Tunnels don't tend to be particularly large, so anyone with reasonable AoE is going to be a killer in tunnel fighting. I would definitely avoid fire, unless the character doesn't breathe... hmm. So you could select Wyrwood race to not need to breathe. Android... doesn't... claim to not breathe, so the assumption is normally that they do. Android also apparently has no creature type. Regardless, anyone can buy a Ring of Sustenance.

For Wild Talent, you obviously want to take Earth Glide, and Earth Tongue. Shift Earth (Greater) basically allows you to trap people in the tunnels indefinitely, especially with your earth glide, and no need to breathe.

I'm not super sure what else you're actually looking for out of the build, but I hope this helped.

[Kurald Galain]

Alright, we'll take the spheres class:
Thanks, but nobody in my area plays with spheres, so I'll be unable to use that.

[SangoProduction]

Thanks, but nobody in my area plays with spheres, so I'll be unable to use that.

I would recommend convincing them!
But...
Fighter (Lore Warden) [at least 3 levels]

Feats:
Improved Dirty Trick
Greater Dirty Trick
Quick Dirty Trick: Allows you to perform a Dirty Trick in place of an attack ( explicitly on your turn)
Kitsune Style: Dirty trick (in place of attack) at end of charge
Kitsune Tricks: Double conditions from dirty tricks. (The single most impactful fear here.)
Kitsune Vengeance: Dirty Trick in place of AoO
Vicious Stomp (if you have a tripper): opponents provoke when they fall prone. (Letting you do dirty trick.)

For equipment... Anything that improves your CMB (and other general stats)
So Dueling weapon

And that's kinda it. At least as far as explicit Dirty Trick support goes.
If you can get them to provoke more attacks more easily, once you have Kitsune Vengeance, then you can of course take that.

[Ramza00]

But it simply doesn't have the same ring as when I help implement an actual person's build idea.

It is Fall and Soon to be Halloween Season

And I am working on a build which will be summoning Ghosts and binding them to Talismans so they can live in the between space between life and death as twilight creatures not wed to either. Ghosts to Haunt what they want to.

Going to be using Leadership and the Advanced Talent (create) Greater Undead from the Death Sphere. With some minor houserules.

=====





Here is the relevant part I have not worked out what the Ghost cohort talents will be. 🎃 Likewise I appreciate any flavor ideas

The main character will be level 5, thus 6 ranks of Know Religion, and thus 2 HD Mage Companion Ghosts who have 4 ranks tied up with the Ghost Template. They will be inhabiting Ghostwalk 3.0 trinkets Shellcraft Manikin (think Department Store Manikins) when not inside me due to that Warp Talent. The Manikins will then be decorated with costumes on top of it. Yes my ghosts will be enchanting Manikins with Halloween Costumes so no one knows they are a Ghost 👻, they are just festive

Eventually the ghosts and main character will get stronger



Craft (Int)

The gnomes of the Ghostwalk campaign have created a type of wood and metal manikin in the shape of a body that any incorporeal ghost can enter and manipulate as if it were a physical body. This is handy for times when a ghost is forced to be incorporeal (such as outside the Manifest Ward) or cannot access a physical body. Shellcraft (as it is known) is a respected but uncommon Craft skill in Manifest. The Craft DC to make a shellcraft manikin is 20.
Since this is an adaptation instead of craft skill manifest, it will be craft skill armor

250 gp if I was not doing a Trinket, the Mankins weight about 80 lbs for a Medium Size and 40 lbs for a Small Size


Shellcraft Manikin: This humanoid creation of metal and wood roughly resembles a tailor's dummy, with articulated limbs and head. The unusual materials in its construction allow an incorporeal creature to enter the manikin (a standard action) and move it in a manner similar to how some ghosts can possess bodies, allowing a ghost to carry material objects even when outside the Manifest Ward. Leaving the manikin is a standard action.
A ghost uses its own ability scores when inhabiting a manikin. However, because a manikin is less efficient than a true body, a ghost operating a manikin takes penalties similar to those from wearing armor.
An inhabited manikin has a maximum Dex bonus of +2 and an armor check penalty of -5. A ghost proficient in medium armor ignores these penalties. A manikin can wear armor just as a normal character can; a ghost inhabiting such a manikin uses the smaller maximum Dex bonus of the two and adds together the armor check penalties.
If the ghost is subject to attacks that would normally not harm an incorporeal creature, the attacks affect the manikin instead. Attacks that do not harm the ghost because of its incorporeal miss chance do affect the manikin. A manikin may be built in the form of a dwarf, elf, gnome, half-orc, halfling, or human. A manikin has hardness 7 and 50 hit points if it is Medium-size, or 35 hit points if it is Small.


Now the Ghosts will all be former humans mage companion cohorts with Ghostly Grasp (so they can choose to be Incorporeal in combat while still wearing items and using magic wands and scrolls). So there goes the Human Bonus Feat for Ghostly Grasp.

I want them, the Ghosts, to be dedicating Tempo Links to my Battle-Born / Exploitant prodigy* with the new Sphere of Guile stuff (for there are several things that can dedicate links like Performance Sphere and so on), but also Sphere of Might and the normal Opener / Link stuff.

And the Ghost Mage Companions will also be donating their spell points to me with my actions via Bottled Spells. The ghost enchant some of their essence into items / talisman and via doing a thing my caster can access their magics. Likewise via Faction sphere my Ghost Mage companions will be using level 1 Vanican Scrolls and Vanican Wands (ghosts are going to due teleportation tricks with allies via Benign Transposition.


My main character is going to be a level 5 Gestalt character
Hedgewitch 5 // Prodigy 3* / Conscript 1 / Sphere Witch 1
Future levels will be more Hedgewitch and 15 levels of Sphere Arcanist on side 2. Thus full caster almost with -1 CL in most spheres, but will be full CL in 6 spheres, but also prodigy boosts CL via tempo links.
Full CL in a custom faith trait for Death, Life, and Enhancement (aka the Artifice Trinkets and other ways one binds things with Talismans). I have not picked out a magic trait yet for the other 3 spheres to get Full CL

Edit one last thing the Ghosts will be able to use my Skills due to Master Presence and Undead Whisperer. The range at level 5 is horrible being only 35 feet, but if I use some of my Hedgewitch Spiritualism path I can grant them Medium (150 feet) or Long range (600 feet) easily at the expense of a limited resource per day (flex talents)

(Sorry for the length), feel free to contribute or not I am open to ideas. :smallsmile:

[SangoProduction]

It is Fall and Soon to be Halloween Season

And I am working on a build which will be summoning Ghosts and binding them to Talismans so they can live in the between space between life and death as twilight creatures not wed to either. Ghosts to Haunt what they want to.

Going to be using Leadership and the Advanced Talent (create) Greater Undead from the Death Sphere. With some minor houserules.

=====





Here is the relevant part I have not worked out what the Ghost cohort talents will be. 🎃 Likewise I appreciate any flavor ideas

The main character will be level 5, thus 6 ranks of Know Religion, and thus 2 HD Mage Companion Ghosts who have 4 ranks tied up with the Ghost Template. They will be inhabiting Ghostwalk 3.0 trinkets Shellcraft Manikin (think Department Store Manikins) when not inside me due to that Warp Talent. The Manikins will then be decorated with costumes on top of it. Yes my ghosts will be enchanting Manikins with Halloween Costumes so no one knows they are a Ghost 👻, they are just festive

Eventually the ghosts and main character will get stronger



Since this is an adaptation instead of craft skill manifest, it will be craft skill armor

250 gp if I was not doing a Trinket, the Mankins weight about 80 lbs for a Medium Size and 40 lbs for a Small Size




Now the Ghosts will all be former humans mage companion cohorts with Ghostly Grasp (so they can choose to be Incorporeal in combat while still wearing items and using magic wands and scrolls). So there goes the Human Bonus Feat for Ghostly Grasp.

I want them, the Ghosts, to be dedicating Tempo Links to my Battle-Born / Exploitant prodigy* with the new Sphere of Guile stuff (for there are several things that can dedicate links like Performance Sphere and so on), but also Sphere of Might and the normal Opener / Link stuff.

And the Ghost Mage Companions will also be donating their spell points to me with my actions via Bottled Spells. The ghost enchant some of their essence into items / talisman and via doing a thing my caster can access their magics. Likewise via Faction sphere my Ghost Mage companions will be using level 1 Vanican Scrolls and Vanican Wands (ghosts are going to due teleportation tricks with allies via Benign Transposition.


My main character is going to be a level 5 Gestalt character
Hedgewitch 5 // Prodigy 3* / Conscript 1 / Sphere Witch 1
Future levels will be more Hedgewitch and 15 levels of Sphere Arcanist on side 2. Thus full caster almost with -1 CL in most spheres, but will be full CL in 6 spheres, but also prodigy boosts CL via tempo links.
Full CL in a custom faith trait for Death, Life, and Enhancement (aka the Artifice Trinkets and other ways one binds things with Talismans). I have not picked out a magic trait yet for the other 3 spheres to get Full CL

Edit one last thing the Ghosts will be able to use my Skills due to Master Presence and Undead Whisperer. The range at level 5 is horrible being only 35 feet, but if I use some of my Hedgewitch Spiritualism path I can grant them Medium (150 feet) or Long range (600 feet) easily at the expense of a limited resource per day (flex talents)

(Sorry for the length), feel free to contribute or not I am open to ideas. :smallsmile:

I would have personally gone with Ghost Sovereign, Soul Weaver (which sounds like an Inuyasha move). It would not only fit the theme, but also provide large scale bonuses for minionmancy (and the team in general). A level of Wraith also wouldn't be unwarranted.
The Death sphere makes obvious sense. As does illusion and (ugh) telekinesis. Enhancement's animate object would "allow your ghosts to control objects," as fluff. Light sphere with Dancing Lights, specifically, also fits. Consequently, if your spirits are on the more unholy side of things, the Dark sphere, with Clinging Darkness, also fit. Especially some of the shadow talents. Similarly, Mind works because of possession being a ghostly thing.
You could make a stretch for the Protection, Fate, and War spheres. Nature could be reasonable as a general spirit thing, but you are specifically asking for ghosts.

If you want your "ghosts" (spells) to be targetable, you could take the general drawback that gives the spells a physical manifestation. Maybe work with your DM about the exact implementation. But as-is, it's plenty usable, and fits a theme of having to actually manifest in the world. Thus, the "object's" size bonus to AC can just be refluffed as the ghost's deflection bonus, while still being a normal-sized ghost, and change nothing functional.

[Ramza00]

So it has been more than a week. Still bored?

( my work thing is finally finished so hopefully I will get some sleep, be in better spirits with less stress that was gnawing at me, and find the joy to finish the ghost thing I am working on. )

[SangoProduction]

I wished I was bored. My water tank blew up, the one time in the past 2 months when I got to bed at a reasonable time.
Then I fixed it.
Then it blew up again, in a new and more interesting way, and now I need new door hinges for the tank closet.
And then I fixed it just before going to work.
Hasn't blown up... again... yet.

But I'm always happy for more builds or requests.