3.5 - Using (Limited) Wish etc to Avoid Corruption Costs?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Spells and effects like wish, limited wish, miracle, and various illusion spells (including a certain shadow illusion-using PrC) have their own costs and components associated with them, which are different than the spells they mimic, when used to emulate other spells. So a spell with an XP (XP), Verbal (V), Somatic (S), or Material (M) component use the component of the spell used to emulate them. But Corruption (C) is a component in the same vein, so if you used limited wish to emulate, say, seething eyebane (Corruption Cost: 1d6 points of Con damage), would you just not pay that particular cost, since you're not actually casting it but emulating it?

[Fero]

I believe it sidesteps all costs but for XP and Material as noted in the spell. That said, by the time you get Limited Wish recovering the ability drain/damage may be a cheaper cost than the minimum XP cost of limited wish.

[Crake]

I believe it sidesteps all costs but for XP and Material as noted in the spell. That said, by the time you get Limited Wish recovering the ability drain/damage may be a cheaper cost than the minimum XP cost of limited wish.

Yeah, but that may cost action economy mid-battle that you just cant afford.

[Inevitability]

The actual RAW on corrupt spells is a bit more complicated than 'take ability damage as part of casting'.


A corrupt spell has no material components. Instead, it draws power away from the mental or physical well-being of the caster in the form of ability damage or ability drain. The ability damage or drain occurs when the spell's duration expires. (There are no corrupt spells with a permanent duration.)

Limited Wish says it 'duplicates' the spell. Sure, let's assume that means the spell just bursts out fully formed, with no need for you to supply actions/components beforehand except for XP costs over 300 or material components over 1000. But there's no 'ignore all components' wording. It seems to me that if you're casting a corrupt spell with a duration, 'taking the ability damage when the spell expires' is still something that gets duplicated, because it happens after the casting.

[Crake]

Limited Wish says it 'duplicates' the spell. Sure, let's assume that means the spell just bursts out fully formed, with no need for you to supply actions/components beforehand except for XP costs over 300 or material components over 1000. But there's no 'ignore all components' wording. It seems to me that if you're casting a corrupt spell with a duration, 'taking the ability damage when the spell expires' is still something that gets duplicated, because it happens after the casting.

Right, but the corruption component is an expression of the spell being taxing to cast, but with limited wish, you’re not actually casting the spell, you’re merely duplicating its effect, and the corrupting cost isnt part of the spell’s effect as much as it is a coat of casting it. Just because you pay it afterwards doesn't change that really, because you arent casting that spell, you’re casting limited wosh to mimic it

[Inevitability]

Right, but the corruption component is an expression of the spell being taxing to cast, but with limited wish, you’re not actually casting the spell, you’re merely duplicating its effect, and the corrupting cost isnt part of the spell’s effect as much as it is a coat of casting it. Just because you pay it afterwards doesn't change that really, because you arent casting that spell, you’re casting limited wosh to mimic it

Okay, to systemize this discussion a little:

1. If you cast a spell with limited wish, does that spell 'lack components' or are we simply bypassing the step where components are usually supplied? The spell specifically says which components

2. Is corruption cost even a 'component' in the relevant sense here? Yes, they're listed in the 'components' line, but they act very unlike regular components when it comes to, say, magic item creation. You have to admit, taking a corruption cost every time you cast from your Wand of Seething Eyebane would make a lot more sense if it was part of the effect rather than part of the casting cost.


If a corrupt spell is made into a potion, scroll, wand, or some other magic item, the user of the item takes the ability damage or ability drain, not the creator. This “corruption cost,” mentioned in the spell’s descriptive text, is paid each time the item is used.

[remetagross]

Right, but the corruption component is an expression of the spell being taxing to cast, but with limited wish, you’re not actually casting the spell, you’re merely duplicating its effect, and the corrupting cost isnt part of the spell’s effect as much as it is a coat of casting it. Just because you pay it afterwards doesn't change that really, because you arent casting that spell, you’re casting limited wosh to mimic it

Hmmm while this is definitely a reasonable stance, I do think it's not RAW. Limited Wish says it "duplicates any spell, blablabla". Not "duplicates any spell effect". As such, it seems very clear to me that you duplicate the corruption cost as well.

[redking]

If the effects of corruption are in the spell description then you are likely affected via limited wish. It would depend if its an effect of the spell itself.