A Vampire Illithid? (Minor Baldur's Gate 3 Spoilers)

[Oramac]

Yes, minor Act 1 spoilers for Baldur's Gate 3. You've been warned.
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Ok, now that you know what you're getting in to.

So Astarion is a Vampire. More accurately, a vampire spawn, but let's just consider a vampire for now. He's ALSO got an illithid tadpole in his head, and ceremorphosis is a thing.

So what happens if he were to actually turn into an Illithid? (I've not finished BG3, so please don't spoil this if it does come up)

I'm more thinking about this from a true Table Top perspective. How would something like this take place at the game table? How would you rule it? Would this be your BBEG?

Thoughts?

[RogueJK]

Vampiric Illithids are present in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, with stats on page 252. Here's the flavor text:


When the mind flayers of Bluetspur (see chapter 3) could find no cure for their overlord’s affliction, their degenerating elder brain turned to radical methods to stave off dementia and death. The results were vampiric mind flayers, feral atrocities spawned from mind flayer tadpoles infected with vampirism. These specialized but flawed terrors serve a single purpose: to drain the cerebral fluids from sapient minds. After doing so, they return to the Elder Brain of Bluetspur, which liquefies them into its pool and releases their stolen essences amid a hormone brine. This grotesque balm stalls the elder brain’s degeneration but is far from a cure.

Vampiric mind flayers are physically and mentally unstable beings. Ghoulish creatures, they let nothing stand between them and their existential imperatives. Although they possess the telepathic abilities of mind flayers, their brains aren’t equipped to employ them. Instead, they bombard nearby creatures with a mental static of visceral visions. While these ravenous creatures are horrifying to behold, they unsettle none more than other mind flayers, which consider them abominations.


They were also present in 3E and 2E, in Lords of Madness and Masters of Eternal Night, respectively.

Here's the flavor text from Lords of Madness:


Even stranger than illithid sorcerers are illithid vampires. How they come to be is unknown. Unlike other vampires, they do not create spawn or propagate their kind by leaving victims wounded but not yet undead. A vampiric mind flayer bears little resemblance to its kin. Where mind flayers favor rich, luxurious robes, a vampiric illithid wears nothing to cover its dark gray flesh. Its head is smaller and of a different, flattened shape, appearing almost to have shrunk or partially collapsed inward. A vampire illithid’s tentacles are longer and more muscular than those of a living mind flayer, and it uses them for bludgeoning as much as grasping. Such a monster would be truly terrifying if it possessed the mighty intellect of a mind flayer. Fortunately, vampiric mind flayers are completely feral. Their minds hold bestial cunning and savagery, but they do not think or reason. Some portion of their minds must recall their former lives, since their favorite haunts are subterranean, in the types of areas where mind flayers live. Other mind flayers are a vampiric illithid’s worst enemies, because they destroy one whenever given a chance.

[Oramac]

Vampiric Illithids are present in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, with stats on page 252. Here's the flavor text:

They were also present in 3E and 2E, in "Lords of Madness" and "Masters of Eternal Night", respectively.

Huh. Well, I've learned my thing for the day!

I guess we can lay this thread to rest. That was fast. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[T.G. Oskar]

Vampiric Illithids are present in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, [...]

They were also present in 3E and 2E, in Lords of Madness and Masters of Eternal Night, respectively.

You also fight then in Baldur's Gate 2, in the secret super-dungeon (Watcher's Keep). Not sure if they appear in the main quest of the expansion (Throne of Bhaal), but Watcher's Keep was released alongside it.

[Unoriginal]

Huh. Well, I've learned my thing for the day!

I guess we can lay this thread to rest. That was fast. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

To answer one of your OP's questions, I wouldn't have one as a BBEG, but that monster could make a nice horrifying moment in a situation where the PCs are prepared to fight a Mind Flayer and their typical minions.

[Psyren]

Vampiric Illithids are present in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, with stats on page 252. Here's the flavor text:

While these do exist, they're not at all what Astarion would become. They are barely sapient (Int 5) and the tadpoles that create them bear no resemblance whatsoever to his own. They aren't actually mindflayers so much as they are cerebral-fluid-extractors/delivery mechanisms for that dying elder brain.

[OldTrees1]

In BG3 Astarion is a Humanoid. They are no longer "Undead" type. We are not sure why Astarion is a Humanoid, but by itself it would imply that if Astarion became an Illithid, under tabletop rules, it would be the regular kind of Illithid.

So translating this to tabletop, if a human was in the process of turning into a vampire, and underwent ceremorphosis, what would happen? Well 5E only has vampirism take root upon death, and Illithids tend to use live hosts for ceremorphosis. Furthermore the tadpole was not infected with vampirism, so it is questionable to assume the vampirism would affect the tadpole. On the other hand Lords of Madness (quoted above) said the origins of Vampiric Illithids are unknown. Maybe ceremorphosis on a corpse tainted with the delayed necromancy of undeath would be sufficient?

However as others have mentioned, vampiric Illithids don't fare well. Maybe the difference in diet? Vampiric Illithids still eat brains and don't drink blood. Maybe they are starving but don't know what they need?


If you wanted a BBEG (instead of this fodder), I would go with an Illithid that retained some vampire traits (including the ability to make spawn) but otherwise is a full Illithid. It could make an interesting BBEG (especially since the party would mistake the highest ranking spawn as the vampire lord)

[Psyren]

In BG3 Astarion is a Humanoid. They are no longer "Undead" type. We are not sure why Astarion is a Humanoid, but by itself it would imply that if Astarion became an Illithid, under tabletop rules, it would be the regular kind of Illithid.

So translating this to tabletop, if a human was in the process of turning into a vampire, and underwent ceremorphosis, what would happen? Well 5E only has vampirism take root upon death, and Illithids tend to use live hosts for ceremorphosis. Furthermore the tadpole was not infected with vampirism, so it is questionable to assume the vampirism would affect the tadpole. On the other hand Lords of Madness (quoted above) said the origins of Vampiric Illithids are unknown. Maybe ceremorphosis on a corpse tainted with the delayed necromancy of undeath would be sufficient?

This is all correct - however the one thing I'll point out is that, for story reasons I won't spoil, Astarion's situation/tadpole is atypical. It did indeed make him humanoid (something closer to... an advanced dhampir maybe?... than what he started as), but that makes extrapolating from him to how regular vampires/vampire spawn would interact with normal illithid tadpoles a bit tricky.

[Witty Username]

Since this is pretty early brought up, ceremorphosis is usually much quicker than BG3 and several characters are quick to point this out.

Any more would be spoilers but the short is BG3 is a bit too specific a case to glean any general rules.

Also, use these Chewbacca dies in the Force Awakens, when covering spoilers [spoiler] and [/ spoiler] for format.

That being said Astarian's stuff is covered in his origin background so I am not even sure if it counts. Or if that is an interface spoiler.

[Psyren]

That being said Astarian's stuff is covered in his origin background so I am not even sure if it counts. Or if that is an interface spoiler.

The "what's happening" is revealed very early but not the "why."