Climbing onto another creature: how big?

[Phhase]

The Climb Onto a Larger Creature rules are something you don't (or at least, I don't) often see used, which is something of a pity since it's a really cool image. I was thinking though: how much larger than you does the creature need to be for you to be able to rodeo it? If you go by mount rules, then just one size, which opens up an interesting benefit for being Small in size: rodeo-ing Large and potentially Medium enemies for free advantage (and moving with your target) that's easy to maintain with a jacked Acrobatics skill. Thoughts?

[OvisCaedo]

You probably don't see it used often because it's buried in the DMG, and so it's something a lot of players don't know is even a potential option they could ask about.

Personally, I think only one size category is too little for the sorts of effects the rules have. Two... hm. Maybe? Size categories themselves are kind of nebulous and disjointed, which might be why the optional rule doesn't really list a defined requirement. Small really isn't THAT much smaller than Medium, and the smaller end of large creatures are something I don't really envision the sort of "clambering around on as terrain" sort of thing. But... I suppose the rule would also be covering just clinging to a creature's back, which WOULD make sense to be just one size category like a mount.

Hmm.

[Kane0]

Two categories bigger is enough for me, or as my group says 'bigger enough i can fit both feet on its face'

[MoiMagnus]

IMO, the answer should be the reverse of "is it small enough to grapple it"?
Assuming no weird thing like being immaterial, creatures are either big enough that you can climb on them, or small enough that you can grapple them.

In fact, at our table, we houseruled a lot of grappling feats/features/etc to work with climbing on creatures.

[da newt]

I'm 100% w/ KaneO on this one. Big enough to be terrain-like has to be an order of magnitude bigger - 2 size categories minimum. This isn't jump on it's back like a 5 yr old getting a piggy back ride from an adult, this is climb that creature like it's a rock wall or full grown oak.

Of note, with DM reciprocity this could make tiny creatures very formidable (and conjure animals / animate objects etc even more OP).

[Psyren]

IMO, the answer should be the reverse of "is it small enough to grapple it"?
Assuming no weird thing like being immaterial, creatures are either big enough that you can climb on them, or small enough that you can grapple them.

In fact, at our table, we houseruled a lot of grappling feats/features/etc to work with climbing on creatures.

+1 to this. The context of the rule is "use this when they're too big to grapple." So if they're not too big to grapple - i.e. one size larger or less - you grapple them.

[Amnestic]

Generally, two sizes larger (Medium->Huge), though I could see an exception for certain creatures - I'd let a human (medium) climb atop a warhorse (large) for instance, but yeah, quick+easy rule is two sizes larger, with the occasional exception.

[Psyren]

Generally, two sizes larger (Medium->Huge), though I could see an exception for certain creatures - I'd let a human (medium) climb atop a warhorse (large) for instance, but yeah, quick+easy rule is two sizes larger, with the occasional exception.

I'd say a human climbing on a warhorse would use different rules altogether, i.e. mounts. You're not actually trying to grapple or otherwise gain a combat advantage against the horse.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'd say a human climbing on a warhorse would use different rules altogether, i.e. mounts. You're not actually trying to grapple or otherwise gain a combat advantage against the horse.

In this case you are, you're fighting a horse by grabbing it. How do you picture that? Is that more of an "arm around its neck and drag it to the ground" kind of deal, or closer to "hang onto it any way you can while stabbing with one free hand"?

I figure I'm kind of convinced. I feel like drawing the line between 1 and 2 sizes larger, because you can still grapple them with just 1 size difference, makes sense.

[Psyren]

In this case you are, you're fighting a horse by grabbing it. How do you picture that? Is that more of an "arm around its neck and drag it to the ground" kind of deal, or closer to "hang onto it any way you can while stabbing with one free hand"?

I figure I'm kind of convinced. I feel like drawing the line between 1 and 2 sizes larger, because you can still grapple them with just 1 size difference, makes sense.

I didn't read his post as literally fighting the horse - but even if that's the case, one size larger = normal grapple as you stated.

[Zhorn]

Another vote for '2 size categories larger'
My group has operated under the reasoning "you can grab onto a creature of any size, but once it's too big to be effected by a grapple by you then you're just climbing it"

[rel]

I'd like to be able to replicate Legolas climbing a cave troll from the old LotR film.
Elves are medium. Trolls are large.

I rule you can climb anything bigger than you.

[crabwizard77]

I know this isn't really helpful, but what if, for some weird reason, you could only grapple/climb on things one size smaller?

How would that go? :smallconfused:

Probably crazy stuff like a ant being climbed on by a giant and being crushed

[Mastikator]

I know this isn't really helpful, but what if, for some weird reason, you could only grapple/climb on things one size smaller?

How would that go? :smallconfused:

Probably crazy stuff like a ant being climbed on by a giant and being crushed

Players usually don't grapple monsters IMX, and climbing onto them even more rarely. If my players could only grapple creatures one size smaller then they'd stop completely (two of my players are playing small races)

[OldTrees1]

Children of ever increasing ages have been known to climb onto adults IRL. So I think Small creatures would be able to climb onto Medium Creatures. All other size categories (Tiny- and Large+) have broader side ranges when compared to Small vs Medium. Then you factor in the added proficiency of a PC/NPC trying to climb ...


I would go with +1 Size category as an easy limit, but make exceptions for cases with less size difference. Depending on tone I might allow a character that could climb onto creatures -1 size category or bigger. (Dexterous contortionist in a humorous campaign)

[MoiMagnus]

Children of ever increasing ages have been known to climb onto adults IRL. So I think Small creatures would be able to climb onto Medium Creatures.

Though I'd say that the adult is generally cooperating in the operation. And a strong enough adult can even be climbed on by a not-too-heavy adults if they're cooperating.