Uses for Thri-kreen's secondary arms

[kingcheesepants]

So I was thinking of making a Thri-kreen sorcadin for an upcoming game but when I look at the secondary arms trait I can't help but feel that these arms are not going to be as helpful as I'd like them to be. Here's the actual text of the arms for reference


Secondary Arms. You have two slightly smaller secondary arms below your primary pair of arms. The secondary arms can manipulate an object, open or close a door or container, pick up or set down a Tiny object, or wield a weapon that has the light property

My hope with the arms was that I could have a great weapon in one hand and a secondary hand, a shield in the other primary, and a free hand for casting from a component pouch. But as far as I can see these arms can't wield a shield, can't guide a heavy weapon even if a primary arm is also being used, and maybe can do the somatic gestures for spells but maybe not.

Is there any way of doing as I (or close to as I) imagined with the secondary arms or should I just scrap the idea?

[RazorChain]

you can dual wield with a shield?

[ftafp]

So I was thinking of making a Thri-kreen sorcadin for an upcoming game but when I look at the secondary arms trait I can't help but feel that these arms are not going to be as helpful as I'd like them to be. Here's the actual text of the arms for reference



My hope with the arms was that I could have a great weapon in one hand and a secondary hand, a shield in the other primary, and a free hand for casting from a component pouch. But as far as I can see these arms can't wield a shield, can't guide a heavy weapon even if a primary arm is also being used, and maybe can do the somatic gestures for spells but maybe not.

Is there any way of doing as I (or close to as I) imagined with the secondary arms or should I just scrap the idea?

unfortunately, thri-kreen arent really suited to using two-handed weapons in 5e. Onednd is going to make them a prime pick for their ability to wield a polearm while dual-wielding nick weapons, but in unfortunately, like every other race in the game thri-kreen thrive better with a hand crossbow than a greatsword

what you could do is dual-wield, which would give your sorcadin more attacks to smite with, without having to invest in feats like polearm master

[prototype00]

The Thri-Kreen advantages I’ve seen proposed by strict RAW (iirc, it’s been a while):

1. Hand Crossbow and Shield in main hands, using a secondary hand to load. (This is probably strictly better than CBE/Sharpshooter BM baseline)

2. TWF with Light weapons and a Shield (Light Weapon in secondary hand, shield and either light or one handed weapon in main hands depending if you have the Dual Wielder feat)

3. If you have Extra Attack, you can have a two handed weapon in your main hands and two light weapon in your Secondary hands, attack once with the two handed weapon, a second time with a light weapon and then bonus action attack with the other light weapon and add your ability mod depending if you have the Two Weapon Fighting Style. (At this point one wonders why you don’t just bite the bullet and take the PAM feat)

[kingcheesepants]

Two weapon fighting with a shield is fine I guess. But I really wanted to combine the classic sword and board paladin with a greatsword and able to cast sorc spells without needing to invest in warcaster or doing ridiculous juggling. Well I'll talk to the DM about it and see if he'd be okay with that, otherwise I guess it's back to the drawing board.

[Yakmala]

Be a Thri-Kreen Bard.

Most magical instruments, by RAW, only need to be held to benefit from their effects. And since an instrument can be a spell casting focus, you can still manipulate somatic and material components while holding the focus.

Play an Instrument of the Bards with your main hands. Hold a Rhythm Makers Drum and Reveler’s Concertina in your secondary hands.

You now have +3 to +5 to your spell save DC while forcing disadvantage on some charm saves.

You are a One Bug Band!

[Beelzebub1111]

You...have the ability to cast spells and drink potions while sword and boarding (not that any DMs pay attention to that anyway)

[stoutstien]

It bypasses the wonky hand economy issues for alchemists.

[Damon_Tor]

The difference between a scimitar and a greatsword is relatively small, just 3 points of damage. Dual wield with a shield instead. More attacks means more changes to crit and thus more chances to blow a guy up with a crit smite.

[Psyren]

The big ones have been covered but I'll point out a more niche use - Thri-Kreen Soulknives can keep their hands free for their Psychic Blades attacks while still wielding a regular weapon for attacks of opportunity. This solves the awkwardness of Soulknives needing to juggle in order to get two sneak attacks out per round in many cases.

(And of course, Thri-Kreen are great soulknife candidates in general as they are naturally psionic)

[Kessel]

as others have said, bard would be a solid fit. but if you're still wanting something closer to your original idea, you could always mc bard/paladin. you still wouldn't have your great sword, but some great synergies to play with.

[RogueJK]

How about something like a TWF Paladin 2/Swords Bard X, dual wielding scimitars or short swords while holding a shield, and still having a fourth hand free for casting - including manipulating a magic instrument.

Damage output is (eventually) equivalent to a greatsword wielder, but with a third chance to crit and/or smite.

For example, with a +4 stat bonus:
3x attacks while Dual Wielding: 3d6+12 (22.5 average)
2x attacks while Greatsword: 4d6+8 (22 average)


Something like this:
Thri-Kreen Paladin 2 -> Swords Bard X
STR 13
DEX 15+1
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 9+1
CHA 13+1
Fighting Styles: Blind Fighting, TWF
ASIs: 16 CHA at Bard 4, 18 DEX at Bard 8, 18 CHA at Bard 12

You've got an 18 AC at Level 1, with your Natural Armor giving you the same AC as wearing Scale Male but without the Disadvantage on Stealth. Once you hit 18 DEX, your Natural Armor AC will be equivalent to Half Plate armor. You have two attacks right off the bat, and at Character Level 5 you gain TWF Style to add your DEXMOD to offhand damage, which helps blunt the delay to Extra Attack. At Character Level 8 you gain 3x attacks per turn from Extra Attack.

[kingcheesepants]

You...have the ability to cast spells and drink potions while sword and boarding (not that any DMs pay attention to that anyway)

The DM whose game I'll be making this for has been very strict when it comes to hand economy in the past. My last character was a wizard with an arti dip and I had an arcane grimoire in one hand and a shield in the other and I was not able to cast spells like shield because "arcane focuses only let you use somatic components when they're replacing a material component, somatic spells with no material component require a free hand" which seemed like BS to me but his table his rules. I also wasn't able to attach my spellbook to a rope wrapped around my wrist so that I could drop it and pick it up quickly. Anyways I'll ask him whether the secondary arms count as a free hand for purposes of spell casting but since they don't explicitly say casting a spell anywhere my guess is he'll say no.

As for the idea of doing a bardadin, that's clearly a different jam but it sounds fun. I think the Thri-kreen's telepathy which doesn't require a shared language is especially good on bards so that will be fun. And I'd be getting the most out of my extra hands too. It's a little MAD since I'd be pumping up my Dex and Cha and I wouldn't be able to dump strength. I wonder if perhaps a fighter dip would be better than paladin. If I did fighter instead I'd lose the smites but I'd gain action surge and I'd be able to go valor too. Probably not worth losing smites but it's something to consider. Anyways thanks all for the ideas.

[Damon_Tor]

The DM whose game I'll be making this for has been very strict when it comes to hand economy in the past. My last character was a wizard with an arti dip and I had an arcane grimoire in one hand and a shield in the other and I was not able to cast spells like shield because "arcane focuses only let you use somatic components when they're replacing a material component, somatic spells with no material component require a free hand" which seemed like BS to me but his table his rules.

He's correct, but depending on the depth of your artificer dip and your choice of subclass, you can cast Shield without issue. Any spell you have as an artificer spell (and Shield is an artificer spell for battlesmiths and artillerists) gains material requirement, and artificers can use any infused item, including shields weapons and armor, as material components.

But assuming that's not an option for you, to use a shield as a wizard you really should use a component pouch, not a focus. You can keep your hand free for any somatic spells you need to cast, and the pouch nicely sits there on your belt or whatever.

[Dork_Forge]

When I played a Thri-kreen (CBE+SS) I went sword and board in main hands and used the secondary ones to handle the hand crossbow. Could do my main schtick uninterrupted with the +2 AC and slightly better melee attacks/attacks of opportunity with a rapier.


The DM whose game I'll be making this for has been very strict when it comes to hand economy in the past. My last character was a wizard with an arti dip and I had an arcane grimoire in one hand and a shield in the other and I was not able to cast spells like shield because "arcane focuses only let you use somatic components when they're replacing a material component, somatic spells with no material component require a free hand" which seemed like BS to me but his table his rules.

I mean, this is literally just the rules of the game. Tracking hands can be finicky at first but really isn't that bad and is a valuable piece in keeping a lid on spellcasters, which is actually highlighted by your complaint. Most spellcasters should have a hard time using a shield and casting/using items, +2 AC should come with a cost.

[Bohandas]

You could carry a torch

[Kane0]

Spellcasting needs
Weapon/shield needs
Poisons
Potions
Torches/Lanterns
Climbing
Swimming
Doors, levers, chests, mcguffins and other environmental interactables
Magic Stone

Alchemist fire, oil, acid, caltrops, chalk, rope, manacles, horn/whistle, healers kit

And so many magic items! Wands, scrolls, all sorts of wondrous items.

Just from artificer infusions alone: alchemy jug, bag of holding, rope of climbing, sending stones, wand of magic detection, wand of secrets, lantern of revealing, pipes of haunting, pipes of the sewers, dimensional shackles, gem of seeing, horn of blasting.

Whatever you're doing with your primary hands, it's always handy to have two extra available! It's probably actually a rather good thing your DM is a stickler for hand use, because you will have the most opportunities for it to come up instead of being... handwaved.

[Sherlockpwns]

instead of being... handwaved.

I just died inside in the best way possible. Thank you.

[kingcheesepants]

He's correct, but depending on the depth of your artificer dip and your choice of subclass, you can cast Shield without issue. Any spell you have as an artificer spell (and Shield is an artificer spell for battlesmiths and artillerists) gains material requirement, and artificers can use any infused item, including shields weapons and armor, as material components.

But assuming that's not an option for you, to use a shield as a wizard you really should use a component pouch, not a focus. You can keep your hand free for any somatic spells you need to cast, and the pouch nicely sits there on your belt or whatever.

Just a one level dip so no subclass, and I recognize that it's a valid interpretation of the rules though one I am not personally convinced by. Namely because the section on material components reads
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components—or to hold a spellcasting focus—but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components. emphasis mine. It's just odd to me that somatic elements can be used while handling a focus but only if that focus is replacing a component. As for why a focus and not a component pouch, well that's because the focus in that particular case was a +2 arcane grimoire.

Anyways this is all aside from the point of the thread which is to think over how to best utilize a Thri-kreen's secondary arms especially as it concerns being a gish. As to that point you all have been most helpful though. If there's more to add by all means keep it coming.