Draconi Redfir
2023-10-20, 08:59 PM
So i was hoping i could get a bit of help and feedback with my fighter here. I've made some intentional limitations on myself, and while i don't intend on breaking those, i do find myself concerned that i might be falling behind the rest of the group if i continue on my planned path. So just getting a brief evaluation on how I'm doing so far, some thoughts on my future plans, and if possible suggestions on what i could do going forward to remain competent would be nice.
Limitations I'm trying to stick too:
- No Power attack: I've taken this feat on every martial character I've ever made. I'd like to explore what it's like without it.
- No Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade) (Yet): While my character's main weapon is an elven curve blade, she stole it. And I've decided that because of this she doesn't actually know how to use it properly and just swings it around like a normal sword. She'd need to have someone who knows how to use it properly teach her in-game, and so far that hasn't happened yet.
- No / as little magic as possible: My character is the superstitious sort, and doesn't trust magic at this time. She sees some forms as unnatural, other forms as cheating, and basically doesn't trust mages in general. So far she's been okay with Healing magic and some minor buffs, but nothing that creates or alters matter or energy without so much as a cost. That said, The DM did say that if i took the Eldritch Heritage feats for the "Aquatic" bloodline, the "Dehydrating touch" spell-like ability could be reflavored to just a mundane physical attack, so there might be some level of flexibility there. If a deity or magical source takes a particular interest in her and provides an interesting story, then i could see her taking a spellcasting class in that direction. so far this hasn't happened yet though.
- No armour above Leather: This is a pirate-themed campaign, so a majority of our time is spent on, around, or in water. So it just doesn't make sense to be wearing armour made out of metal. Plus i like the concept of a free-moving swordsman you typically see in pirate movies. I've done the heavily-armoured tanks before, I'm not playing that this time.
For context, the rest of the party includes:
1 Barbarian
1 Monk (Tetori)
2 Oracles (One healer, one summoner)
1 Rogue
1 other Fighter (Corsair)
1 Arcanist
and 1 Alchemist, though his player hasn't been able to attend for a good while, so he's just serving time as the ship's first-mate NPC right now.
Allowed Books:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook
Advanced Players' Guide
Advanced Races Guide (Ch. 1 and Ch. 2 Featured Race only. Ch. 3 see below for list of allowable races)
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Equipment
Pathfinder Unchained (Classes only)
Advanced Class Guide
Ultimate Campaign (Traits only.)
Ultimate Intrigue (Feats Only)
Official Pathfinder books (Please inform DM of the source and rules used to submit for DM ruling.)
Optional rules in the above books are prohibited up to DM discretion
Prohibited/ DM use only:
Mythic Adventures
Occult Adventures
Horror Adventures (Alternate Racial Traits and Favored Class Option allowed)
Ultimate Wilderness
Technology Guide
Leadership Feat
No Summoners (Unchained Summoner only)
Third party Books
My character thus far:
Kawa Akwaf (https://i.imgur.com/C7qLIHA.png) (Art by @Zegryphos on twitter)
Female Hobgoblin (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-hobgoblin/) Fighter (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/) 5 / Brawler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/brawler/) 1 (No archetypes)*
LN Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Speed 30ft
(Replaced "Darkvision" for a a +1 to Natural Armour with the "Scarred" alternate racial trait.)
Ability Scores:
Str 19 (16 base, +1 from lvl 4, +2 Belt of giant's strength)
Dex 14 (12 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Con 16 (14 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14
AC 17, Touch 13, Flat-footed 14 (+3 Armour, +2 Dex, +1 Natural, +1 Dodge
HP 53 (6d10, Max health at 1st lvl, 1/2 hit-die + con every additional level)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +0
MW Elven Curve blade: +12/+7 (Primary Melee weapon)
Vindictive Harpoon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/vindictive-harpoon/) +11/+6 (Primary weapon when underwater) **
Musket +8 (Not proficient) (Primary ranged weapon)
Simple Pistol +8 (not proficient) (Sidearm)
Masterwork dagger (Just an emergency tool)
Leather armour
Belt of Str +2 **
Spear thrower (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spear-thrower) (DM allows this to work on Harpoon)
Whetstone
6 air bladders (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/hunting-camping-survival-gear/#TOC-Air-Bladder)
Swim fins (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Swim%20fins)
Various other items not of particular note.
Base atk +6
Feats: Combat Stamina (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Combat%20Stamina) (Gained for free due to playing a fighter), Exotic Weapon proficiency (Elven curve blade) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/exotic-weapon-proficiency-combat/) (lvl 1 feat), Dodge (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dodge-combat/) (Lvl 1 fighter bonus feat), Desperate Battler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/desperate-battler/) (Lvl 2 fighter bonus feat), Great Fortitude (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/great-fortitude/) (Lvl 3 feat), Armor Focus (Leather) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/armor-focus-combat/) (lvl 4 fighter bonus fighter), Godless Healing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/godless-healing/) (Lvl 5 feat)
Special abilities: Killer trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/killer/), Touched by the sea trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/skull-shackles/touched-by-the-sea/), Bravery +1 (Fighter class feature), Armour Training (Fighter class feature), Weapon training: Heavy Blades (Fighter class feature), Brawler's cunning (Brawler class feature), Martial training (Brawler class feature)
Martial Flexibility: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/BRAWLER/#TOC-Martial-Flexibility-Ex-) As a move action, i may gain the benefit of a combat feat i qualify for for 1 minute, 4 times per day. (Brawler class feature) With this ability, i can basically become proficient in any weapon i like. so i've been using it to use things like firearms and siege weapons when needed. it's just a very nice ability overall.
Skills: (Unlisted have no ranks)
Climb: 8 (CS, 1 rank + 4 Str)
Diplomacy: 3 (1 rank + 2 Cha)
Intimidate: 6 (CS, 1 rank + 2 Cha)
Profession (Fisher): 9 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis, +1 bonus from "Fishing Tackle" item (DM allowed)***
Profession (Sailor): 7 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Profession (Cook): 6 (CS, 4 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Stealth: 6 (0 rank, +4 Racial bonus, +2 Dex)
Survival: 3 (CS, 1 rank, -1 Wis)
Swim: 9 (CS, 1 rank, +4 Str, +1 trait bonus)
* Lack of Archetypes was an intentional choice. Every archetype for fighter i saw either didn't fit, or removed the Armour Training feature, which i wanted to keep since i was limiting my armour level for this character. I never really looked at Brawler archetypes, it's a new class for me so I'm thinking of keeping things basic for it.
** Yes i know these are magic items and the character is stated as not trusting magic. I don't have an excuse for the belt, but I'm thinking she's not aware the Harpoon is magical, and just thinks she's really good at tugging on the chord to bring it back to her. Not sure how she'd feel about a lot of magic items to be honest.
*** Kawa is a Fisherman by trade and also the Ship's cook, thus explaining why she has so many profession skills
Overall i think I'm happy with what I've got. I've got a little bit of sustainability, flexibility, and seem to be doing alright currently. It's mainly my thoughts for future levels that I'm a little unsure about.
What i was THINKING of doing was this:
Level 7: 6th level in fighter, lvl 7 feat Sea Legs (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sea-legs/) general feat since i only get 3 skill points per level, and this'd be a good way to get multiple skills higher. Lvl 6 fighter bonus feat, maybe Combat reflexes? Not sure actually.
Level 8: 7th level in fighter, "Armour Specialization" armour training ability. Should help keep my AC fairly decent since I'm sticking to light armour for this one. +1 to Str from level 8.
Level 9: Now that i can qualify for it, "Improved Critical (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-critical-combat/)" for the Elven Curve blade, as i was thinking of going crit-focused in this game. This might be a good time to get a second level in Brawler so i can use the Brawler bonus feat to the improved critical, and then spend the level 9 feat on a general feat, perhaps Prodigy
(https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prodigy/) to boost up my Cooking and Fishing further?
Also thinking of picking up additional combat-stamina and martial-flexibility boosting/related feats, such as Extra martial flexability (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-martial-flexibility/) and Anything that goes with Combat Stamina (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-tricks-optional-rules/). Really feel like those things together might help make up for my lack of / aversion to Magic with this character. "Rapid reload (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-reload-combat/)" might also be a good idea considering the spear-thrower and firearms would all benefit from it.
I'm not entirely sure if a second level in brawler would be a great idea, the bonus feat is nice, but while Brawler's flurry sounds fun, there's no guarantee any point where I'm lacking a weapon would come up outside of an unarmed combat tournament (which is coming up, but will probably come and go before i take this level) or being captured and disarmed (which as much as I'd like to explore it, has never happened in any campaign I've played sadly.)
After that, i have a few choices. Since this is a water-based campaign and I'm going non-magical, one level in Tidal trickster rogue (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/tidal-trickster-rogue-archetype) might be a good idea for the swim speed and sneak attack. Personally i think it's a bit OP, but DM seems to be okay with it, so who am i to look a gift horse in the mouth?
Since we have access to Firearms in this campaign, i was also thinking at some point getting up to three levels in Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), as this would get me proficiency in firearms without needing to spend a feat, as well as a fair amount of deeds, grit, and the "Nimble" feature for some extra AC.
My concern there is that if i go for all that, I'll have four different classes going on at once, which might end up as some level-spaghetti that leaves me lagging behind the rest of the party. Even if i go pure fighter after that point, I'd be 5-6 levels behind in it then the other fighter in our group. I could try staggering them out, take one level in Gunslinger, then a level in fighter, etc. But I'm not sure.
What do you guys think? Am i over thinking things at all? any flaws, critiques, or recommendations to my build, either current or planned for the future? I kind of like the idea of being a "Mundane Mastery " slash "Badass normal" character, but i can't escape the feeling that everything I'm thinking of for it might be too much. That said, my goal isn't to become a super-powered demigod or anything i just want to be Competent and remain helpful for the party going forward. So if anyone has any tips, advice, or suggestions on how i can do that in the future, then it'd be appreciated.
If we can keep replies that contain nothing but questions / comments irrelevant to the questions above to a minimum, then that would also be great, thank you.
Limitations I'm trying to stick too:
- No Power attack: I've taken this feat on every martial character I've ever made. I'd like to explore what it's like without it.
- No Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade) (Yet): While my character's main weapon is an elven curve blade, she stole it. And I've decided that because of this she doesn't actually know how to use it properly and just swings it around like a normal sword. She'd need to have someone who knows how to use it properly teach her in-game, and so far that hasn't happened yet.
- No / as little magic as possible: My character is the superstitious sort, and doesn't trust magic at this time. She sees some forms as unnatural, other forms as cheating, and basically doesn't trust mages in general. So far she's been okay with Healing magic and some minor buffs, but nothing that creates or alters matter or energy without so much as a cost. That said, The DM did say that if i took the Eldritch Heritage feats for the "Aquatic" bloodline, the "Dehydrating touch" spell-like ability could be reflavored to just a mundane physical attack, so there might be some level of flexibility there. If a deity or magical source takes a particular interest in her and provides an interesting story, then i could see her taking a spellcasting class in that direction. so far this hasn't happened yet though.
- No armour above Leather: This is a pirate-themed campaign, so a majority of our time is spent on, around, or in water. So it just doesn't make sense to be wearing armour made out of metal. Plus i like the concept of a free-moving swordsman you typically see in pirate movies. I've done the heavily-armoured tanks before, I'm not playing that this time.
For context, the rest of the party includes:
1 Barbarian
1 Monk (Tetori)
2 Oracles (One healer, one summoner)
1 Rogue
1 other Fighter (Corsair)
1 Arcanist
and 1 Alchemist, though his player hasn't been able to attend for a good while, so he's just serving time as the ship's first-mate NPC right now.
Allowed Books:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook
Advanced Players' Guide
Advanced Races Guide (Ch. 1 and Ch. 2 Featured Race only. Ch. 3 see below for list of allowable races)
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Equipment
Pathfinder Unchained (Classes only)
Advanced Class Guide
Ultimate Campaign (Traits only.)
Ultimate Intrigue (Feats Only)
Official Pathfinder books (Please inform DM of the source and rules used to submit for DM ruling.)
Optional rules in the above books are prohibited up to DM discretion
Prohibited/ DM use only:
Mythic Adventures
Occult Adventures
Horror Adventures (Alternate Racial Traits and Favored Class Option allowed)
Ultimate Wilderness
Technology Guide
Leadership Feat
No Summoners (Unchained Summoner only)
Third party Books
My character thus far:
Kawa Akwaf (https://i.imgur.com/C7qLIHA.png) (Art by @Zegryphos on twitter)
Female Hobgoblin (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-hobgoblin/) Fighter (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/) 5 / Brawler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/brawler/) 1 (No archetypes)*
LN Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Speed 30ft
(Replaced "Darkvision" for a a +1 to Natural Armour with the "Scarred" alternate racial trait.)
Ability Scores:
Str 19 (16 base, +1 from lvl 4, +2 Belt of giant's strength)
Dex 14 (12 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Con 16 (14 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14
AC 17, Touch 13, Flat-footed 14 (+3 Armour, +2 Dex, +1 Natural, +1 Dodge
HP 53 (6d10, Max health at 1st lvl, 1/2 hit-die + con every additional level)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +0
MW Elven Curve blade: +12/+7 (Primary Melee weapon)
Vindictive Harpoon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/vindictive-harpoon/) +11/+6 (Primary weapon when underwater) **
Musket +8 (Not proficient) (Primary ranged weapon)
Simple Pistol +8 (not proficient) (Sidearm)
Masterwork dagger (Just an emergency tool)
Leather armour
Belt of Str +2 **
Spear thrower (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spear-thrower) (DM allows this to work on Harpoon)
Whetstone
6 air bladders (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/hunting-camping-survival-gear/#TOC-Air-Bladder)
Swim fins (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Swim%20fins)
Various other items not of particular note.
Base atk +6
Feats: Combat Stamina (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Combat%20Stamina) (Gained for free due to playing a fighter), Exotic Weapon proficiency (Elven curve blade) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/exotic-weapon-proficiency-combat/) (lvl 1 feat), Dodge (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dodge-combat/) (Lvl 1 fighter bonus feat), Desperate Battler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/desperate-battler/) (Lvl 2 fighter bonus feat), Great Fortitude (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/great-fortitude/) (Lvl 3 feat), Armor Focus (Leather) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/armor-focus-combat/) (lvl 4 fighter bonus fighter), Godless Healing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/godless-healing/) (Lvl 5 feat)
Special abilities: Killer trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/killer/), Touched by the sea trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/skull-shackles/touched-by-the-sea/), Bravery +1 (Fighter class feature), Armour Training (Fighter class feature), Weapon training: Heavy Blades (Fighter class feature), Brawler's cunning (Brawler class feature), Martial training (Brawler class feature)
Martial Flexibility: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/BRAWLER/#TOC-Martial-Flexibility-Ex-) As a move action, i may gain the benefit of a combat feat i qualify for for 1 minute, 4 times per day. (Brawler class feature) With this ability, i can basically become proficient in any weapon i like. so i've been using it to use things like firearms and siege weapons when needed. it's just a very nice ability overall.
Skills: (Unlisted have no ranks)
Climb: 8 (CS, 1 rank + 4 Str)
Diplomacy: 3 (1 rank + 2 Cha)
Intimidate: 6 (CS, 1 rank + 2 Cha)
Profession (Fisher): 9 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis, +1 bonus from "Fishing Tackle" item (DM allowed)***
Profession (Sailor): 7 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Profession (Cook): 6 (CS, 4 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Stealth: 6 (0 rank, +4 Racial bonus, +2 Dex)
Survival: 3 (CS, 1 rank, -1 Wis)
Swim: 9 (CS, 1 rank, +4 Str, +1 trait bonus)
* Lack of Archetypes was an intentional choice. Every archetype for fighter i saw either didn't fit, or removed the Armour Training feature, which i wanted to keep since i was limiting my armour level for this character. I never really looked at Brawler archetypes, it's a new class for me so I'm thinking of keeping things basic for it.
** Yes i know these are magic items and the character is stated as not trusting magic. I don't have an excuse for the belt, but I'm thinking she's not aware the Harpoon is magical, and just thinks she's really good at tugging on the chord to bring it back to her. Not sure how she'd feel about a lot of magic items to be honest.
*** Kawa is a Fisherman by trade and also the Ship's cook, thus explaining why she has so many profession skills
Overall i think I'm happy with what I've got. I've got a little bit of sustainability, flexibility, and seem to be doing alright currently. It's mainly my thoughts for future levels that I'm a little unsure about.
What i was THINKING of doing was this:
Level 7: 6th level in fighter, lvl 7 feat Sea Legs (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sea-legs/) general feat since i only get 3 skill points per level, and this'd be a good way to get multiple skills higher. Lvl 6 fighter bonus feat, maybe Combat reflexes? Not sure actually.
Level 8: 7th level in fighter, "Armour Specialization" armour training ability. Should help keep my AC fairly decent since I'm sticking to light armour for this one. +1 to Str from level 8.
Level 9: Now that i can qualify for it, "Improved Critical (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-critical-combat/)" for the Elven Curve blade, as i was thinking of going crit-focused in this game. This might be a good time to get a second level in Brawler so i can use the Brawler bonus feat to the improved critical, and then spend the level 9 feat on a general feat, perhaps Prodigy
(https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prodigy/) to boost up my Cooking and Fishing further?
Also thinking of picking up additional combat-stamina and martial-flexibility boosting/related feats, such as Extra martial flexability (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-martial-flexibility/) and Anything that goes with Combat Stamina (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-tricks-optional-rules/). Really feel like those things together might help make up for my lack of / aversion to Magic with this character. "Rapid reload (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-reload-combat/)" might also be a good idea considering the spear-thrower and firearms would all benefit from it.
I'm not entirely sure if a second level in brawler would be a great idea, the bonus feat is nice, but while Brawler's flurry sounds fun, there's no guarantee any point where I'm lacking a weapon would come up outside of an unarmed combat tournament (which is coming up, but will probably come and go before i take this level) or being captured and disarmed (which as much as I'd like to explore it, has never happened in any campaign I've played sadly.)
After that, i have a few choices. Since this is a water-based campaign and I'm going non-magical, one level in Tidal trickster rogue (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/tidal-trickster-rogue-archetype) might be a good idea for the swim speed and sneak attack. Personally i think it's a bit OP, but DM seems to be okay with it, so who am i to look a gift horse in the mouth?
Since we have access to Firearms in this campaign, i was also thinking at some point getting up to three levels in Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), as this would get me proficiency in firearms without needing to spend a feat, as well as a fair amount of deeds, grit, and the "Nimble" feature for some extra AC.
My concern there is that if i go for all that, I'll have four different classes going on at once, which might end up as some level-spaghetti that leaves me lagging behind the rest of the party. Even if i go pure fighter after that point, I'd be 5-6 levels behind in it then the other fighter in our group. I could try staggering them out, take one level in Gunslinger, then a level in fighter, etc. But I'm not sure.
What do you guys think? Am i over thinking things at all? any flaws, critiques, or recommendations to my build, either current or planned for the future? I kind of like the idea of being a "Mundane Mastery " slash "Badass normal" character, but i can't escape the feeling that everything I'm thinking of for it might be too much. That said, my goal isn't to become a super-powered demigod or anything i just want to be Competent and remain helpful for the party going forward. So if anyone has any tips, advice, or suggestions on how i can do that in the future, then it'd be appreciated.
If we can keep replies that contain nothing but questions / comments irrelevant to the questions above to a minimum, then that would also be great, thank you.