[PF] Looking for build evaluation / advice, "Mundane mastery" fighter.

[Draconi Redfir]

So i was hoping i could get a bit of help and feedback with my fighter here. I've made some intentional limitations on myself, and while i don't intend on breaking those, i do find myself concerned that i might be falling behind the rest of the group if i continue on my planned path. So just getting a brief evaluation on how I'm doing so far, some thoughts on my future plans, and if possible suggestions on what i could do going forward to remain competent would be nice.

Limitations I'm trying to stick too:
- No Power attack: I've taken this feat on every martial character I've ever made. I'd like to explore what it's like without it.

- No Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade) (Yet): While my character's main weapon is an elven curve blade, she stole it. And I've decided that because of this she doesn't actually know how to use it properly and just swings it around like a normal sword. She'd need to have someone who knows how to use it properly teach her in-game, and so far that hasn't happened yet.

- No / as little magic as possible: My character is the superstitious sort, and doesn't trust magic at this time. She sees some forms as unnatural, other forms as cheating, and basically doesn't trust mages in general. So far she's been okay with Healing magic and some minor buffs, but nothing that creates or alters matter or energy without so much as a cost. That said, The DM did say that if i took the Eldritch Heritage feats for the "Aquatic" bloodline, the "Dehydrating touch" spell-like ability could be reflavored to just a mundane physical attack, so there might be some level of flexibility there. If a deity or magical source takes a particular interest in her and provides an interesting story, then i could see her taking a spellcasting class in that direction. so far this hasn't happened yet though.

- No armour above Leather: This is a pirate-themed campaign, so a majority of our time is spent on, around, or in water. So it just doesn't make sense to be wearing armour made out of metal. Plus i like the concept of a free-moving swordsman you typically see in pirate movies. I've done the heavily-armoured tanks before, I'm not playing that this time.


For context, the rest of the party includes:
1 Barbarian
1 Monk (Tetori)
2 Oracles (One healer, one summoner)
1 Rogue
1 other Fighter (Corsair)
1 Arcanist
and 1 Alchemist, though his player hasn't been able to attend for a good while, so he's just serving time as the ship's first-mate NPC right now.




Allowed Books:
• Pathfinder Core Rulebook
• Advanced Players' Guide
• Advanced Races Guide (Ch. 1 and Ch. 2 Featured Race only. Ch. 3 see below for list of allowable races)
• Ultimate Combat
• Ultimate Magic
• Ultimate Equipment
• Pathfinder Unchained (Classes only)
• Advanced Class Guide
• Ultimate Campaign (Traits only.)
• Ultimate Intrigue (Feats Only)
• Official Pathfinder books (Please inform DM of the source and rules used to submit for DM ruling.)
• Optional rules in the above books are prohibited up to DM discretion

Prohibited/ DM use only:
• Mythic Adventures
• Occult Adventures
• Horror Adventures (Alternate Racial Traits and Favored Class Option allowed)
• Ultimate Wilderness
• Technology Guide
• Leadership Feat
• No Summoners (Unchained Summoner only)
• Third party Books

My character thus far:


Kawa Akwaf (https://i.imgur.com/C7qLIHA.png) (Art by @Zegryphos on twitter)
Female Hobgoblin (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-hobgoblin/) Fighter (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/) 5 / Brawler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/brawler/) 1 (No archetypes)*
LN Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Speed 30ft
(Replaced "Darkvision" for a a +1 to Natural Armour with the "Scarred" alternate racial trait.)

Ability Scores:
Str 19 (16 base, +1 from lvl 4, +2 Belt of giant's strength)
Dex 14 (12 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Con 16 (14 base, +2 Hobgoblin)
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14

AC 17, Touch 13, Flat-footed 14 (+3 Armour, +2 Dex, +1 Natural, +1 Dodge
HP 53 (6d10, Max health at 1st lvl, 1/2 hit-die + con every additional level)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +0


MW Elven Curve blade: +12/+7 (Primary Melee weapon)
Vindictive Harpoon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/vindictive-harpoon/) +11/+6 (Primary weapon when underwater) **
Musket +8 (Not proficient) (Primary ranged weapon)
Simple Pistol +8 (not proficient) (Sidearm)
Masterwork dagger (Just an emergency tool)

Leather armour
Belt of Str +2 **
Spear thrower (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spear-thrower) (DM allows this to work on Harpoon)
Whetstone
6 air bladders (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/hunting-camping-survival-gear/#TOC-Air-Bladder)
Swim fins (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Swim%20fins)
Various other items not of particular note.

Base atk +6
Feats: Combat Stamina (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Combat%20Stamina) (Gained for free due to playing a fighter), Exotic Weapon proficiency (Elven curve blade) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/exotic-weapon-proficiency-combat/) (lvl 1 feat), Dodge (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dodge-combat/) (Lvl 1 fighter bonus feat), Desperate Battler (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/desperate-battler/) (Lvl 2 fighter bonus feat), Great Fortitude (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/great-fortitude/) (Lvl 3 feat), Armor Focus (Leather) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/armor-focus-combat/) (lvl 4 fighter bonus fighter), Godless Healing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/godless-healing/) (Lvl 5 feat)

Special abilities: Killer trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/killer/), Touched by the sea trait (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/skull-shackles/touched-by-the-sea/), Bravery +1 (Fighter class feature), Armour Training (Fighter class feature), Weapon training: Heavy Blades (Fighter class feature), Brawler's cunning (Brawler class feature), Martial training (Brawler class feature)

Martial Flexibility: (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/BRAWLER/#TOC-Martial-Flexibility-Ex-) As a move action, i may gain the benefit of a combat feat i qualify for for 1 minute, 4 times per day. (Brawler class feature) With this ability, i can basically become proficient in any weapon i like. so i've been using it to use things like firearms and siege weapons when needed. it's just a very nice ability overall.


Skills: (Unlisted have no ranks)
Climb: 8 (CS, 1 rank + 4 Str)
Diplomacy: 3 (1 rank + 2 Cha)
Intimidate: 6 (CS, 1 rank + 2 Cha)
Profession (Fisher): 9 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis, +1 bonus from "Fishing Tackle" item (DM allowed)***
Profession (Sailor): 7 (CS, 5 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Profession (Cook): 6 (CS, 4 ranks, -1 Wis)***
Stealth: 6 (0 rank, +4 Racial bonus, +2 Dex)
Survival: 3 (CS, 1 rank, -1 Wis)
Swim: 9 (CS, 1 rank, +4 Str, +1 trait bonus)

* Lack of Archetypes was an intentional choice. Every archetype for fighter i saw either didn't fit, or removed the Armour Training feature, which i wanted to keep since i was limiting my armour level for this character. I never really looked at Brawler archetypes, it's a new class for me so I'm thinking of keeping things basic for it.
** Yes i know these are magic items and the character is stated as not trusting magic. I don't have an excuse for the belt, but I'm thinking she's not aware the Harpoon is magical, and just thinks she's really good at tugging on the chord to bring it back to her. Not sure how she'd feel about a lot of magic items to be honest.
*** Kawa is a Fisherman by trade and also the Ship's cook, thus explaining why she has so many profession skills

Overall i think I'm happy with what I've got. I've got a little bit of sustainability, flexibility, and seem to be doing alright currently. It's mainly my thoughts for future levels that I'm a little unsure about.

What i was THINKING of doing was this:

Level 7: 6th level in fighter, lvl 7 feat Sea Legs (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sea-legs/) general feat since i only get 3 skill points per level, and this'd be a good way to get multiple skills higher. Lvl 6 fighter bonus feat, maybe Combat reflexes? Not sure actually.
Level 8: 7th level in fighter, "Armour Specialization" armour training ability. Should help keep my AC fairly decent since I'm sticking to light armour for this one. +1 to Str from level 8.
Level 9: Now that i can qualify for it, "Improved Critical (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-critical-combat/)" for the Elven Curve blade, as i was thinking of going crit-focused in this game. This might be a good time to get a second level in Brawler so i can use the Brawler bonus feat to the improved critical, and then spend the level 9 feat on a general feat, perhaps Prodigy
(https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prodigy/) to boost up my Cooking and Fishing further?

Also thinking of picking up additional combat-stamina and martial-flexibility boosting/related feats, such as Extra martial flexability (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-martial-flexibility/) and Anything that goes with Combat Stamina (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-tricks-optional-rules/). Really feel like those things together might help make up for my lack of / aversion to Magic with this character. "Rapid reload (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-reload-combat/)" might also be a good idea considering the spear-thrower and firearms would all benefit from it.

I'm not entirely sure if a second level in brawler would be a great idea, the bonus feat is nice, but while Brawler's flurry sounds fun, there's no guarantee any point where I'm lacking a weapon would come up outside of an unarmed combat tournament (which is coming up, but will probably come and go before i take this level) or being captured and disarmed (which as much as I'd like to explore it, has never happened in any campaign I've played sadly.)


After that, i have a few choices. Since this is a water-based campaign and I'm going non-magical, one level in Tidal trickster rogue (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/tidal-trickster-rogue-archetype) might be a good idea for the swim speed and sneak attack. Personally i think it's a bit OP, but DM seems to be okay with it, so who am i to look a gift horse in the mouth?

Since we have access to Firearms in this campaign, i was also thinking at some point getting up to three levels in Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), as this would get me proficiency in firearms without needing to spend a feat, as well as a fair amount of deeds, grit, and the "Nimble" feature for some extra AC.

My concern there is that if i go for all that, I'll have four different classes going on at once, which might end up as some level-spaghetti that leaves me lagging behind the rest of the party. Even if i go pure fighter after that point, I'd be 5-6 levels behind in it then the other fighter in our group. I could try staggering them out, take one level in Gunslinger, then a level in fighter, etc. But I'm not sure.




What do you guys think? Am i over thinking things at all? any flaws, critiques, or recommendations to my build, either current or planned for the future? I kind of like the idea of being a "Mundane Mastery " slash "Badass normal" character, but i can't escape the feeling that everything I'm thinking of for it might be too much. That said, my goal isn't to become a super-powered demigod or anything i just want to be Competent and remain helpful for the party going forward. So if anyone has any tips, advice, or suggestions on how i can do that in the future, then it'd be appreciated.

If we can keep replies that contain nothing but questions / comments irrelevant to the questions above to a minimum, then that would also be great, thank you.

[Seerow]

So I get this is a nautical campaign, but the decisions you've made here have me really confused.

You want light armor only, fair enough. But then you don't want to give up armor training, but the biggest benefit that applies is increasing max Dex and reducing acp, neither of which matters for light armor. And you are strength based so you're unlikely to ever hit max Dex even for light armor before armor training. And then you're a job goblin with a boost to Dex, and using ranged weapons with a finessible melee weapon, but again you're strength based. And then there's a feat blown on improving your only save that was already good.

Ultimately the biggest issue is I have no idea what your character is supposed to be good at. She's passable at stabbing people with his curveblade, but has tissue thin defenses and really nothing besides bab and weapon training to separate herself from any other combatant. She's got a great con so he can take a few hits, but will almost certainly have the lowest ac of any front liner, especially if she wants to continue with no/limited magic items. She's got 14 Cha but nothing really leveraging that, and all of her feats are kind of all over the place. To be blunt outside the primary weapon to hit bonus and fort save bonus, Kawa's numbers feel more appropriate for a character half her level, and she doesn't really have much she's contributing outside numbers.

My best recommendation is figure out what you want to accomplish first then build from there. Master of mundane combat is too broad to be actionable. You've got a pretty solid start to an intimate build stat wise, but refusing power attack locks you out of cornugan smash which is painful and you currently have only one rank in initiate. Being strength based means you could pick a combat maneuver or two to focus on and contribute that way. Combat reflexes is unlikely to be useful without either a reach weapon or some way to force opponents to provoke.


Personally I think you'd be better off switching to Dex based. You're already looking at a tidal trickster dip, increase that to 3 levels and use unchained rogue. Swap dex and strength so you're starting 21 dex, 14 Str. And at that point since you're saying no power attack anyway swap that 14 into your int and leave Str at 10. 3 levels of rogue and 2 extra skills per level will do a lot to help flesh out your out of combat utility and still leave some room for some mobility skills like acrobatics. Maybe even grab that fourth level for debilitating injury. Passively handing out debuffs is always nice and you don't lose another bab until 5 regardless. Being Dex based will also net you better AC and ref saves, and since you have the racial dex bonus that +1 makes up for the bab lost and gives some extra damage.

[Draconi Redfir]

Some good feedback and things to talk about here so far, thanks!


You want light armor only, fair enough. But then you don't want to give up armor training, but the biggest benefit that applies is increasing max Dex and reducing acp, neither of which matters for light armor. And you are strength based so you're unlikely to ever hit max Dex even for light armor before armor training.

The main thing I'm looking for here is the advanced armour training. the first level of armour training is a bit of a waste yea, but the advanced options provide some methods of increasing my armour bonus, which i feel like would help me be not-quite-as-glass as i normally would be. Obviously not every advanced armor training will be helpful, But if I'm sticking to Leather gear, i''ll need all the options i can get to improve that armour bonus.



And then you're a job goblin with a boost to Dex, and using ranged weapons with a finessible melee weapon, but again you're strength based.

My thought here is that just because it CAN be Finessed doesn't mean it needs to be. While going Dex based might increase my attack rolls for ranged weapons, it's not going to affect their damage at all. I was going to say i'd need to spend a feat on getting finesse training, but looking at unchained rogue, it DOES give you finesse training for free at first level, so there might be some argument for it there, assuming tidal trickster can be taken with unchained rogue. I did take "knife master" rogue with unchained rogue in a previous campaign, but that was with a different DM, so not sure if that'd work here.



And then there's a feat blown on improving your only save that was already good.
Not blown actually, that was pretty important. Early on in the campaign the party was forced to drink a shot of a very potent rum, basically a poison every night. We all had to find some way to adapt to it, some had the stealth to pretend they drank it without actually drinking it, some had the ability to nullify it's effects, others were more resistant or immune to it, etc. Kawa didn't have any of those options, so she had to just tank the hit with a fortitude roll. She failed the roll enough times for the drink to have it's intended effect and get her addicted to it, meaning she was still drinking it even after it was no longer mandatory or else face heavy withdrawal penalties, including a hit to her constitution. It was only in the last session we had that she was finally able to kick that addiction, the save was three consecutive 20+ fort rolls, so that improved fortitude actually really helped.




Ultimately the biggest issue is I have no idea what your character is supposed to be good at. She's passable at stabbing people with his curveblade, but has tissue thin defenses and really nothing besides bab and weapon training to separate herself from any other combatant. She's got a great con so he can take a few hits, but will almost certainly have the lowest ac of any front liner, especially if she wants to continue with no/limited magic items. She's got 14 Cha but nothing really leveraging that, and all of her feats are kind of all over the place. To be blunt outside the primary weapon to hit bonus and fort save bonus, Kawa's numbers feel more appropriate for a character half her level, and she doesn't really have much she's contributing outside numbers.

My best recommendation is figure out what you want to accomplish first then build from there. Master of mundane combat is too broad to be actionable. You've got a pretty solid start to an intimate build stat wise, but refusing power attack locks you out of cornugan smash which is painful and you currently have only one rank in initiate. Being strength based means you could pick a combat maneuver or two to focus on and contribute that way. Combat reflexes is unlikely to be useful without either a reach weapon or some way to force opponents to provoke.

That's partly why I'm here asking for help and feedback, the hope is that she can be just a competent soldier who's flexible with her various skills thanks to the martial flexibility and combat stamina. I'm not making a tank, not a glass canon, just a soldier in the fight who is able to HELP in the fight. It's a big party, and we've already got tanks and healers and spellcasters, and I'm not trying to replace any of them. I'm just trying to not be a burden.

I'm also trying to explore new options that i haven't ever played with before, like firearms and alternatives to power attack and the like. Part of the goal of this character is just "Try new things."

I've DONE Power attack, I've DONE heavy armour, I've DONE loads of magic items. The main reason why she distrusts magic, and why i want to try and go mundane-mastery is because I've seen too many cases of interesting problems being absolutely trivialized by magical solutions with zero cost or penalty. i want to EXPLORE those problems and actually face consequences before finding (and earning!) methods of overcoming them.

The Charisma is primarily because i don't want to absolutely minmax. i could easily play a hobgoblin with 18, 16, 18, 7, 7, 7, ability scores, but that's boring. that's just more "dumb fighter trope" fodder, and i don't want to play that. Plus this way if i ever find myself in a situation where i need diplomacy, or maybe get access to some new class due to story reasons that relies on a non-physical ability score, then I'm not just absolutely useless.



Personally I think you'd be better off switching to Dex based. You're already looking at a tidal trickster dip, increase that to 3 levels and use unchained rogue. Swap dex and strength so you're starting 21 dex, 14 Str. And at that point since you're saying no power attack anyway swap that 14 into your int and leave Str at 10. 3 levels of rogue and 2 extra skills per level will do a lot to help flesh out your out of combat utility and still leave some room for some mobility skills like acrobatics. Maybe even grab that fourth level for debilitating injury. Passively handing out debuffs is always nice and you don't lose another bab until 5 regardless. Being Dex based will also net you better AC and ref saves, and since you have the racial dex bonus that +1 makes up for the bab lost and gives some extra damage.

How would switching my Strength and Dexterity get me a 21 to dex? At most I'd get a 19 as best as i can tell. 16 from the base, +2 from hobgoblin, +1 from level 4.

Adding more rogue sounds good on paper, but I'm not sure if it'll play out in practice. in the end that's just more levels being pulled out of fighter, and to my knowledge at least, you don't really want to be all over the place when it comes to your levels. Completely swapping ability scores around like that might be too much too, as at that point it feels like i may as well just be building an entirely new character from the ground up. I'm not saying I'm completely opposed to the idea, but i am hesitant about it. That's something i would absolutely need to ask the DM for permission for, and I'm not sure if i want to go that far with this.

[ciopo]

if you don't plan to advance fighter more, the advanced armor training you plan on will stop at +1, because it's base don fighter level, not character level.

Personally, I'd go for adaptable training, to get "BAB to skill" on one skill, perhabs swim, perhabs intimidate

[Draconi Redfir]

i was not planning on stopping fighter at level 7. i do intend to continue there. i was just also thinking of some other 1-3 level dips that might be useful.


We already have a really good intimidater in our barbarian, so I'm not sure how much i need it really. I'm more leaning towards boosting my profession skills, as well as skills that are commonly needed on the ship, such as climb, swim, and MAAAYBE Perception or Diplomacy if i can get them as class skills. My perception is at a -1, and i don't have a lot of friends on the ship.



Edit: Just asked the DM, he allowed for retraining of Feats and Skills only. so trying to re-build the entire character into a Dex-based one is straight up not on the table. we can only focus on what's ahead of us.

[Rynjin]

I'm gonna be straight with you, given that it sounds like you're playing Skull and Shackles, this character concept sounds like one which will have a difficult time surviving what's ahead. Especially executed as haphazardly as it is currently.

"Retraining" a character's Feats only into worse and less generally useful Feats is an extremely bizarre choice. You're essentially giving up the idea of being an effective damage dealer by eschewing Power Attack, so your usefulness as a Fighter is already limited. You could go a Combat maneuver build, but you unfortunately lose a lor by not being able to go Lore Warden (for class) and not being able to use what is probably the single best Combat Maneuver for a seafaring campaign: Bull Rush (as it requires Power Attack).

That leaves your generally viable options as Grapple (redundant with the Tetori), Trip (high impact, low consistency), and Dirty Trick (difficult to build with your attributes). Hell, Trip is pretty iffy without using a Reach weapon and Combat Reflexes, and you've indicated your Dex is kind of meh/

Regardless, without Power Attack, give up on the idea of being a damage dealer. You are signaling pretty heavily your are not interested in dealing HP damage to the foe when you give up your largest ability to do so. Weapon Specialization is pretty irrelevant.

The Elven Curve Blade then is likely to not be an amazing option for you, unless you're interested in going a funky support build that allows you to be a frontline friendly-buffer to the barbarian.

As a result, I have these suggestions for Feats to take.

1.) Dirty Fighting (your hob is too dumb for Combat Expertise, this gets around that).
1.) Improved Dirty Trick
2.) Butterfly's Sting
3.) Great Fortitude (this is, frankly, worthless to you but you seem adamant on keeping it)
4.) Combat Reflexes
5.) Cut From the Air
6.) Greater Dirty Trick
7.) Quick Dirty Trick
8.) Improved Critical: Elven Curve Blade

These Feats allow your character to quickly apply debuffs to the opponent, critical threat frequently, then PASS THOSE CRITS TO AN ALLY (like the Barbarian) who can do more damage, and have some ranged defense; at level 9 you can take Smash From the Air to even parry spells. Aka, you're a funky martial support build.

Party synergies:

Dirty Trick can Blind targets, which makes them valid targets for the Sneak Attack of the Rogue.
Butterfly's Sting lets you pass crits to the Barbarian, who would stereotypically be using a high critical multiplier weapon like a greataxe.
Applying the Sickened debuff with Dirty Trick allows your spellcasters to land Save or Suck spells more often
When flanking, likely with the Rogue, you can try ANY Combat maneuver without provoking (or gain a +4 to one of your Dirty Tricks).

[Seerow]

The main thing I'm looking for here is the advanced armour training. the first level of armour training is a bit of a waste yea, but the advanced options provide some methods of increasing my armour bonus, which i feel like would help me be not-quite-as-glass as i normally would be. Obviously not every advanced armor training will be helpful, But if I'm sticking to Leather gear, i''ll need all the options i can get to improve that armour bonus.


Honestly advanced armor training for an extra +1-3 AC isn't going to do a ton for you. But at this point retraining to add an archetype is off the table, and the advanced armor training is better for you than the standard armor training, so I am not going to argue the point.

I will however recommend upgrading your armor from regular leather to Leather Lamellar. It's still light armor made from leather, so fitting your aesthetic. It has -2 ACP, but make it masterwork removes one, and Armor Training 1 removes the other. So it's basically 2 extra points of AC above what you have for free. I'd also consider later on an upgrade to something like Mithral Scale Mail. It abandons the leather, but scale feels like it fits the aquatic campaign theme, and between mithral and your armor training it also ends up at 0 ACP (so no problem swimming with it), and as Medium Armor will get greater benefit from most of your advanced armor trainings.


As far as the rest, I pretty much agree with Rynjin that going for an oddball support/debuffing build is probably the way to go given the restrictions at play. I would recommend instead of Fast Dirty Trick, take a sidestep into Bounty Hunter Slayer. It gets the ability to apply a dirty trick as a free action in place of sneak attack damage, compared to replacing an attack entirely. 2-3 levels vs a Feat, but worth it if that's the route you are planning to go and expect the campaign to go on long enough.

Other things you could look into if you're falling back to a more mundane support role would be check out some of the support out there for Aid Another. I don't remember the details offhand, but I know there's tricks to get your aid another bonus up to like +10 and apply it to the AC of an ally within reach for a full round for 1 AoO. Being able to give an ally a big boost to hit after passing them a crit, or make them unhittable for a round, is a nice utility to have in your pocket, and may be worth checking into if it's worth investing in for you.

[Rynjin]

Sadly from what I recall most of the really good Aid Another support requires you to be a Halfling, plus it feels a little further off from his theme. I thought about suggesting some of the Hobgoblin Teamwork Feat stuff but they're frankly not amazing and best when there are more martial characters in the party than not anyway.

[pabelfly]

I'd suggest a Vital Strike build, if your character was willing to take Enlarge Person buffs from somewhere. The Vital Strike feat chain multiplies your weapon damage dice and works without Power Attack, but would require you to put some effort to improve your weapon damage to do decent damage.

[Rynjin]

I'd suggest a Vital Strike build, if your character was willing to take Enlarge Person buffs from somewhere. The Vital Strike feat chain multiplies your weapon damage dice and works without Power Attack, but would require you to put some effort to improve your weapon damage to do decent damage.

Vital Strike builds are extremely wonky and Feat intensive to make damage-viable (plus one of the best boosters to it requires Power Attack. Edit: NVM, I thought Devastating Strike needed PA but apparently it doesn't).

OP would be putting at minimum 8 Feats (Vital Strike/Improved/Greater, Catch Off-Guard, Shikigami Style/Manipulation/Mimicry, Devastating Strike) just to hit damage benchmarks, that feels to me stymieing enough that it doesn't leave room for Feats that actually give new options or allows you to do anything interesting.

It's a great Feat line for Spheres of Might characters, who can afford to lose all their Feats for damage since they have another source of "cool stuff they can do" but seems a poor fit for what I view as OP's goal of "create an interesting martial character". Plus they wanna use an Elven Curve Blade. And requires UMD, which is VERY against the "no magic" thing.

@OP: Let me know if I'm wrong, if you actually do wanna go for the "one big hit" Vital Strike build it's not that hard to put together..

[Draconi Redfir]

the dirty trick stuff does seem neat, and might warrant looking into. I've definitely never used dirty tricks before, we mostly use CMB for things like bull-rush and the like, so that might be something to explore deeper into. Quick dirty trick might need to be the goal, if only because it lets me make attacks while also performing dirty tricks. I'm not entirely sure, but it does look like Quick dirty trick + Combat stamina means i can use my highest attack roll for damage, and then one of the lower ones for a dirty trick? not sure.

Looks like both my Brawler level as well as my combat stamina allow me to bypass most Intelligence restrictions, so i probably won't need dirty fighting.



If the brawler’s Intelligence score is less than 13, it counts as 13 for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of combat feats.


Combat stamina Rules (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/stamina-and-combat-tricks-optional-rules/) (Can't put a link in the quote name i guess) Re: Improved dirty trick: You can select this feat even if you don’t meet the ability score prerequisite (Intelligence 13). You gain the benefits of this feat only as long as you have at least 1 stamina point in your stamina pool.


Butterfly's sting unfortunately isn't going to work due to the Deity requirement which i don't meet. and cut from the air is a power-attack feat.


Vital strike could be good, if nothing else i could throw it in as a move action with the martial flexibility ability.

Considering the curve blade's high crit range, i think I'm mainly going to try and go for a critical build, get improved critical on it, then try and get any critical feats i can find.


I think what i need to do is take a closer look at all the synergies and uses in Combat Stamina and try and lean more into that, the only feats i have that use it right now are Dodge and Desperate battler, and i don't use the stamina options with them just because they're pretty minor and situational.

Making a list of one-off feats like Vital strike that i can grab with martial Flexibility would also be good. Vital Strike might actually be a great option for my firearms, since those only get one shot per round anyways. Though I'd need to either pick up Vital Strike or Firearm proficiency as a permanent thing, as i can only have one feat at a time with the Flexibility feature. That or just use the firearms while not proficient, which would not be ideal, but it's still an option.

Ugh, going to need to make whole spreadsheets to print out feels like @.@



Am i reading right that nobody seems to have a problem with the "level spaghetti" thing i was concerned about? Like, nobody has brought that up, and it was in the original post as one of my main concerns. Would it be fine to take those gunslinger and rogue levels then? I don't think I've ever had more then a one-class multiclass before, so this thing I'm planning of four does feel like a bit much, so I'm a bit concerned is all.

[Kurald Galain]

OP would be putting at minimum 8 Feats (Vital Strike/Improved/Greater, Catch Off-Guard, Shikigami Style/Manipulation/Mimicry, Devastating Strike) just to hit damage benchmarks
Or alternatively, take
A one-level dip in Druid with the Growth domain (so you can enlarge yourself as a swift action) and the Shillelagh spell (that simply makes a weapon hit harder), ignoring any other druid abilities;
a one-level dip in Barbarian (to rage, which is a good choice for martials in general);
Vital Strike and eventually Improved/Greater (the latter two require very high level anyway);
and the Furious Finish feat.


That's also +3 size increases for fewer feats, assuming you're fine with a "hulk out" ability that makes you grow for a couple rounds.

[Rynjin]

Or alternatively, take
A one-level dip in Druid with the Growth domain (so you can enlarge yourself as a swift action) and the Shillelagh spell (that simply makes a weapon hit harder), ignoring any other druid abilities;
a one-level dip in Barbarian (to rage, which is a good choice for martials in general);
Vital Strike and eventually Improved/Greater (the latter two require very high level anyway);
and the Furious Finish feat.


That's also +3 size increases for fewer feats, assuming you're fine with a "hulk out" ability that makes you grow for a couple rounds.

That plays into the "level spaghetti" issue. I was assuming a straight classed Fighter 1-7 at least, I missed he was already a Brawler 1. And that Cut From the Air requires Power Attack.

That leaves 2 Feats free, 3 if you can't finagle Butterfly's Sting due to religious constraints (Calistria is actually a good deity for a pirate, probably second best after Besmara).

Having Feats free means you're more free to multiclass lol. More levels in Brawler would let you continue down the Dirty Trick tree, but you'd lose out on Advanced Weapon Training stuff, if you care. Fighter's Tactics is a potential standout for your character if you want to invest in some Teamwork Feats to give other support tools outside the Dirty Trick plan. If not, 3 levels of Brawler gets you maneuver Training which is neato.