Barbarian Shifter, but which one?

[elyktsorb]

Primarily asking about Longtooth versus Wildhunt

Since with Longtooth I can have a heavy weapon attack and a bonus action attack.

Or with Wildhunt I can have Reckless attack with no downside.

Thoughts?

[thoroughlyS]

Reckless attack with no downside is pretty crazy, especially if you use great weapon master. It's got my vote.

[Unoriginal]

Primarily asking about Longtooth versus Wildhunt

Since with Longtooth I can have a heavy weapon attack and a bonus action attack.

Or with Wildhunt I can have Reckless attack with no downside.

Thoughts?

Which Barbarian subclass are you going for, if any?

[Psyren]

I'd do Longtooth for Beast, Wildhunt for everything else (using either PAM, GWM, or Dual Wielder to get a BA attack.)

[Dr.Samurai]

I agree with Wildhunt. If you keep your AC competitive, then you can benefit from a good AC without Reckless impacting it, and also the higher HP and Resistance to damage.

[elyktsorb]

Which Barbarian subclass are you going for, if any?

I was primarily thinking Totem, but Ancestral Guardian is probably a better choice.

Though I'm more concerned with dealing damage than outright being a tank.

[RogueJK]

I was primarily thinking Totem, but Ancestral Guardian is probably a better choice.

Though I'm more concerned with dealing damage than outright being a tank.

If straight damage output is what you're after, then a Wild Hunt Shifter Zealot Barbarian with GWM is your best best for squeezing maximum damage out of each turn.

But what the Totem give up by losing that 1d6+Half Level in added damage each turn, it more than makes up for with additional staying power by halving nearly all damage. After all, it's tough to deal any damage at all when you're bleeding out with 0 HP.


I'd do Longtooth for Beast, Wildhunt for everything else

Agreed.

Beast Barbarians work best when they're geared towards maximizing your number of attacks each turn via their Claw, so the Longtooth's additional BA racial bite attack plays well with that, giving you a fourth attack in a turn. (Ask your DM if they would allow the Level 6 ability to bypass nonmagical damage resistance to also be applied to your racial bite...) And without GWM, you don't necessarily need to be using Reckless Attack every turn, with it instead just becoming an option when fighting a high AC enemy or when you need to counteract a source of Disadvantage.

On the other Barbarians, Wild Hunt with GWM is the way to go. And with consequence-free Advantage on the majority of your attacks, GWM's BA attack will trigger often enough that you don't need another BA attack option. Not to mention that you already have your first two BAs of most big fights spoken for, with Raging and Shifting. There's no need to tack on another BA option via Bite/PAM/TWF.

[solidork]

It's also worth it to consider the fictional framing of each - do you see your character as the kind of person who goes around biting people? Its a very visceral, intimate and (presumably) messy way to fight - that could mean its perfect or undesirable.

It also means that you're signing up to get a mouthful of some pretty unpleasant stuff - when your DM describes a zombie as stinking, rotting and covered in maggots there isn't any mechanical downside to attacking with a bite but at the end of the day you are putting some of that in your mouth. Maybe the thought of getting to ask your DM what every monster you meet tastes like sounds like fun! Maybe you'd find yourself deciding that your character would not be willing to put their latest foe between their teeth. My table has a player who prefers to play dragons, so this kind of stuff comes up often.

[elyktsorb]

It's also worth it to consider the fictional framing of each - do you see your character as the kind of person who goes around biting people? Its a very visceral, intimate and (presumably) messy way to fight - that could mean its perfect or undesirable.


I've played Druid's plenty of time so I'm already well aware of the ramifications of tasting things.

Tho I also usually consider the longtooth's fang attack to be more like jabbing the fangs into enemies as opposed to outright biting them with your whole mouth

[Schwann145]

Tho I also usually consider the longtooth's fang attack to be more like jabbing the fangs into enemies as opposed to outright biting them with your whole mouth

That sounds more like tusks, less like fangs.

[stoutstien]

Beasthide isn't flashy but for barbarians it just works all around. AC and THP are two things they can get some mileage out of rage or not.

[elyktsorb]

Beasthide isn't flashy but for barbarians it just works all around. AC and THP are two things they can get some mileage out of rage or not.

I dunno man, if I wanted a race with a +1 AC bonus I think there's better options

[Arkhios]

Personally, if I were to make a Shifter Barbarian, I would probably choose the Path of the Beast, combined with Longtooth Shifter.

If I'm reading this right, starting from 5th level, you could make three attacks with one Attack Action and one Bite Attack as a Bonus Action.

[sithlordnergal]

Personally, if I were to make a Shifter Barbarian, I would probably choose the Path of the Beast, combined with Longtooth Shifter.

If I'm reading this right, starting from 5th level, you could make three attacks with one Attack Action and one Bite Attack as a Bonus Action.

Actually, you can get 4 attacks:

- Attack

- Extra Attack

- 1 Free Claw Attack

- 1 Bonus Bite Attack as a Longtooth

All at advantage, all adding your Rage and Strength Bonus.

[stoutstien]

I dunno man, if I wanted a race with a +1 AC bonus I think there's better options

Not really. You basically have warforged which is nice but lacks DV and is very setting specific. Untyped AC bonuses are rare.

[elyktsorb]

Not really. You basically have warforged which is nice but lacks DV and is very setting specific. Untyped AC bonuses are rare.

The stipulations you listed feel less like things that actually matter. Setting specific? Chances are if someone has specific races I can't play as for their campaign, it's going to be so small as to exclude both shifter and warforged, and no darkvision isn't exactly a big detraction.

There's also symic hybrid which gets it at 5th level, but 5th level is a pretty good level to get a free point of AC

Then there's Tortle who just has 17 AC out of the gate.

Also none of these options have to turn on that additional AC, heck I could take a level of fighter and get an additional AC, and considering I'm playing a Barbarian that's not even out of the question. My point being, +1 AC is not all that competitive with a bonus action attack or cost free reckless attack imo

[Arkhios]

Actually, you can get 4 attacks:

- Attack

- Extra Attack

- 1 Free Claw Attack

- 1 Bonus Bite Attack as a Longtooth

All at advantage, all adding your Rage and Strength Bonus.

Uhh... that's what I said? Three Attacks with Attack Action + one Attack with Bonus Action (Last time I checked, 3+1=4) :smallconfused:

Also, to get that free Claw Attack, at least one of the normal attacks you make must be with a Claw. Might as well be all of them.

[sithlordnergal]

Uhh... that's what I said? Three Attacks with Attack Action + one Attack with Bonus Action (Last time I checked, 3+1=4) :smallconfused:

Also, to get that free Claw Attack, at least one of the normal attacks you make must be with a Claw. Might as well be all of them.

Oh, I misread that XD I thought you only said three attacks total

[Mastikator]

Also none of these options have to turn on that additional AC, heck I could take a level of fighter and get an additional AC, and considering I'm playing a Barbarian that's not even out of the question. My point being, +1 AC is not all that competitive with a bonus action attack or cost free reckless attack imo

You could, if you're wearing armor, and they would stack. Though even with a mere scalemail and shield and 14 dex the combined AC bonuses would be pretty nice, but I'd take longtooth, a 19 AC with 4 attacks seems better than 20 AC with 3 attacks.

[Leon]

whichever one is most pig like so you can go fullboar

[Rukelnikov]

The stipulations you listed feel less like things that actually matter. Setting specific? Chances are if someone has specific races I can't play as for their campaign, it's going to be so small as to exclude both shifter and warforged, and no darkvision isn't exactly a big detraction.

There's also symic hybrid which gets it at 5th level, but 5th level is a pretty good level to get a free point of AC

Then there's Tortle who just has 17 AC out of the gate.

Also none of these options have to turn on that additional AC, heck I could take a level of fighter and get an additional AC, and considering I'm playing a Barbarian that's not even out of the question. My point being, +1 AC is not all that competitive with a bonus action attack or cost free reckless attack imo

I think it depends on build and level.

BA attack for 1d6+Str is ok at early levels, like everyone that actually cares to attack can normally get 1d6 BA attacks, by tier 2 a lot of posters consider 1d6+Str to not be a very exciting use for a BA, by tier 3 you should have something better to do with it, so your racial feature becomes "spend a bonus action to make a bad attack and get 8-10 temp hp" (which is less than a typical hit's damage at those levels), thus you pretty much have no racial feature. Getting +1 AC and 1d6+8-10 temp HP seems better to me at those levels.

Negating advantage against you OTOH worsens in usefulness as you level up, since enemy to hit tends to scale faster than AC, but even against enemies that hit you on a 7 its about a 23% damage reduction, so if you plan on recklessly attacking as your routine, Wildhunt will always remain useful. Take into account though the frequency you think enemies will actually be attacking you from less than 30 ft, in particular the type of enemies you'd like to be good against. Does your DM like to give their bosses good ranged attacks? Then it'll be good against adds and fodder but not against them, etc.

[elyktsorb]

BA attack for 1d6+Str is ok at early levels, like everyone that actually cares to attack can normally get 1d6 BA attacks, by tier 2 a lot of posters consider 1d6+Str to not be a very exciting use for a BA, by tier 3 you should have something better to do with it, so your racial feature becomes "spend a bonus action to make a bad attack and get 8-10 temp hp" (which is less than a typical hit's damage at those levels), thus you pretty much have no racial feature. Getting +1 AC and 1d6+8-10 temp HP seems better to me at those levels.

Negating advantage against you OTOH worsens in usefulness as you level up, since enemy to hit tends to scale faster than AC, but even against enemies that hit you on a 7 its about a 23% damage reduction, so if you plan on recklessly attacking as your routine, Wildhunt will always remain useful. Take into account though the frequency you think enemies will actually be attacking you from less than 30 ft, in particular the type of enemies you'd like to be good against. Does your DM like to give their bosses good ranged attacks? Then it'll be good against adds and fodder but not against them, etc.

Good points, part of my thinking though is that making more attacks feels more rewarding. That's just personal preference I realize.

[Devech]

I think it depends on build and level.

BA attack for 1d6+Str is ok at early levels, like everyone that actually cares to attack can normally get 1d6 BA attacks, by tier 2 a lot of posters consider 1d6+Str to not be a very exciting use for a BA, by tier 3 you should have something better to do with it, so your racial feature becomes "spend a bonus action to make a bad attack and get 8-10 temp hp" (which is less than a typical hit's damage at those levels), thus you pretty much have no racial feature. Getting +1 AC and 1d6+8-10 temp HP seems better to me at those levels.

Negating advantage against you OTOH worsens in usefulness as you level up, since enemy to hit tends to scale faster than AC, but even against enemies that hit you on a 7 its about a 23% damage reduction, so if you plan on recklessly attacking as your routine, Wildhunt will always remain useful. Take into account though the frequency you think enemies will actually be attacking you from less than 30 ft, in particular the type of enemies you'd like to be good against. Does your DM like to give their bosses good ranged attacks? Then it'll be good against adds and fodder but not against them, etc.


A better BA option than an extra attack? That scales with strength and rage? And you can make it every round? What are you talking about? Extra attacks are the best things you can give a martial character, especially one that can't cast spells during rage. Not to say wildhunt is bad, but unless you frequently get KOed in combat longtooth is way more impactful.

[Rukelnikov]

A better BA option than an extra attack? That scales with strength and rage? And you can make it every round? What are you talking about? Extra attacks are the best things you can give a martial character, especially one that can't cast spells during rage. Not to say wildhunt is bad, but unless you frequently get KOed in combat longtooth is way more impactful.

OP wants to use a Heavy weapon, Longtooth's bite is worse than PAM since you can't apply the +10 damage to it, so its a worse option than the standard build they are going for. I think its a good option early on, but eventually getting PAM will render it useless 90+% of the time, and not getting PAM in order to not render it useless will hinder the build itself.