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thegreatqwerty
2023-10-26, 05:50 PM
The Great Qwertyuiop’s guide to the Optimized Low Level Artificer :smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

First I'll go to my rating system, pretty standard.
Since I can't figure out formatting, I'll just write it out in text
5- Bruh it's insane.. why..
5c- cool infusion combo
4 - Incredibly good. If you don't take this, you are not peaking optimization level
3 - This is pretty good. It's not O P! but it's good. you'll be using that.
2- standard. good.
1- kind of.. substandard?
0 - this is legit active bad

So now..
have you ever been in a low level campaign and can't play a super-cool multiclassed build because you almost always bring a primary class to at least 5? Well, I have. So, I was just playing around with infusions and low level artificer things, because although I usually play a multiclassed high damage build, I was playin' an artificer with some friends.


Straight Classed Artificer:

Hit Dice: a d8. 2. this is average. this is good for a main caster build. However other half casters typically get d10s so...

Armor Proficiency: Light armor, Shields, Med. Armor. Man, your AC with just a 14 dex with some scale mail is just 18. 4! this is incredible AC! I mean like almost all dpr builds need two handed weapons, but you have the shield so you have incredible AC. not as good as a bladesinger but..

Weapon Proficiency: Simple weapons. That's good. Light Crossbow for shooting people. Firearms are great though, you don't need the Gunner Feat for a modern campaign now!

Tool Proficiency: Diddly darn, 3 tools? Jesus this is good. I think it's the most. correct me if I'm wrong.

Saving Throws: Concentration Saves, whee! This helps you get your concentration spells saved.

Skills:
these are pretty average. I'd say a 2.

Magical Tinkering: Feels like a cantrip. Tasha's Flavorful Glowstick. this is a 1. it's mostly flavor

Spellcasting:You're a half caster. but you get cantrips, cantrip switching, and ritual casting. That's why we call it a 2/3 caster. Also you are basically one level ahead of all the other half caster. 3. because you get some kit and you can cast. other spellcasters would get around a 4 because spellcasting is so darned good.

Infuse Item: So good. On the next page I'll break 'em down.. but 4, 5 if you cheese them.

The Right Tool for the Job: ngl kinda mid and flavorful. 1.

Ability Score Improvement (ASI): YWith the proper infusions you can guarantee items that set your Strength and Intelligence score to 19, which uniquely makes ASIs almost redundant. 2.

Tool Expertise: You have at least 3 tool proficiencies.. this is like triple expertise.

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-26, 05:51 PM
About infusions...

Of course Spellwrought tattoos or whatever they're called are OP. spamming 1st level spells at level 2 :P

and then 2 bags of holding + familiar is a nuke.

I'll add to this later.

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-26, 05:51 PM
<reserved> :smallsmile::smallsmile::smallsmile:

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-26, 05:55 PM
<reserved> :smallsmile:

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-26, 05:55 PM
<also reserved :P> :smallsmile:

Dork_Forge
2023-10-27, 12:07 PM
I'm interested in where this goes but some stuff already:

- you're calling Magical Tinkering 'actively bad' because its basically flavour, but that's the point of the ability, it's not occupying meaty mechanical design space. You should really be rating how good of a flavour ability it is, since it's pretty versatile and can apply to RP scenarios.

- The whole 'spamming aberrant dragon mark tattoos at level 1' is just, so wrong. Aberrant Dragon mark is a feat and you don't get infusions until second level anyway. This doesn't give the reader confidence you know what you're talking about at all, a bit of research and double checking yourself goes a long way.

Interested to see how this develops!

stoutstien
2023-10-27, 01:06 PM
Any guide that disregard magic tinkering as just fluff already loses all interests for me.

If you can't think of three dozen ways that you can circumvent challenges with that feature you're playing the wrong class.

Hairfish
2023-10-27, 03:12 PM
If you can't think of three dozen ways that you can circumvent challenges with that feature you're playing the wrong class.

Turning pebbles into stinkbombs is great fun.

tokek
2023-10-27, 05:08 PM
Oh look I have a magic pebble that shines light even in magical darkness.

Yeah, anyone who thinks magical tinkering is useless is probably playing the wrong class here. It’s cantrip level magic items and being magic items can have advantages. See above

Damon_Tor
2023-10-27, 10:45 PM
Keep a nite-lite arrow in a closed up little compartment, tag a baddie with it, bingo bango, poor man's faerie fire.

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-28, 08:54 AM
I'm interested in where this goes but some stuff already:

- you're calling Magical Tinkering 'actively bad' because its basically flavour, but that's the point of the ability, it's not occupying meaty mechanical design space. You should really be rating how good of a flavour ability it is, since it's pretty versatile and can apply to RP scenarios.

- The whole 'spamming aberrant dragon mark tattoos at level 1' is just, so wrong. Aberrant Dragon mark is a feat and you don't get infusions until second level anyway. This doesn't give the reader confidence you know what you're talking about at all, a bit of research and double checking yourself goes a long way.

Interested to see how this develops!

I called MT substandard not actively bad. Also I fixed the spellwrought tattoos at level 2 :P. Sorry about that tho. Thanks! I also said that this is optimization, and I assumed a very unpermissive DM. but yeah, flavor's cool. this is from an optimization standpoint.

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-28, 08:55 AM
Any guide that disregard magic tinkering as just fluff already loses all interests for me.

If you can't think of three dozen ways that you can circumvent challenges with that feature you're playing the wrong class.

I was assuming unpermissive DM, sorry. I should've wrote that down. but magical tinkering imo is a great feature and I think that it's great! however in terms of optimization it's not as OP..

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-28, 08:55 AM
Turning pebbles into stinkbombs is great fun.

wholeheartedly agree.

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-28, 09:05 AM
Oh look I have a magic pebble that shines light even in magical darkness.

Yeah, anyone who thinks magical tinkering is useless is probably playing the wrong class here. It’s cantrip level magic items and being magic items can have advantages. See above

Huh, that's really true. I guess I'll say that it'sgood ish

thegreatqwerty
2023-10-28, 09:06 AM
Keep a nite-lite arrow in a closed up little compartment, tag a baddie with it, bingo bango, poor man's faerie fire.

1 doesnt stick
2 up to dm discretion

stoutstien
2023-10-28, 07:02 PM
I was assuming unpermissive DM, sorry. I should've wrote that down. but magical tinkering imo is a great feature and I think that it's great! however in terms of optimization it's not as OP..

You don't need twisted rules to get a ton of effect here. Just need to read the feature and apply it. The fact it isn't OP is actually a good thing because it doesn't run the risk of getting a lot of resistance in or out of game.

Daver35
2023-10-29, 07:09 PM
Mi tip for low-level artificers would be to not sleep on the Pot of Awakening infusion. Given enough time, it can allow you to make a small army of minions, which unlike the homunculus will persist even after you replace said infusion with another. Even if your GM only allows one shrub, its still an amazing pick at lower levels:


you can hand them magic stones to double your damage output
it can reload your hand crossbow if you have used repeating shot with one of your teammates
it can administer potions or use items without taking up your bonus action
has a decent amount of hp (even more if you use a protector cannon)
unlike the homunculus, its FREE
can camouflage perfectly in a forest environment AND can speak one language, making for an ok scout
good for rp purposes

Around lv5 or so it starts to fall off, since no matter how much you buff it it will still die in one hit to any source of fire damage. But still, at levels 2-4 I'd say its a solid pick for any artificer.

follacchioso
2023-10-31, 09:19 AM
One thing to mention in a guide to the Artificer class is the problem of managing spell components while holding the infused item in your hand.

Many people forget about this limitation when multiclassing, especially with the Wizard class.

At first level, you need to hold a tool in your hand to cast Artificer spells. This makes it very difficult to use a shield, because you still need the other hand for casting spells from other classes. For example, an Artificer 1 / Wizard X, would not be able to hold a Shield, a tool for casting Artificer spells, and a Component Pouch for casting Wizard spells; and they would not have a free hand to cast S or V,S spells like most cantrips and the Absorb Element/Shield spells. The situation gets more complex if you need a spell with costly material components, because you need another hand for that. Moreover, it gets even more difficult to hold an Arcane Grimoire, a magical staff, or any other item that give bonuses to Wizard spells.

This becomes a bit better at Artificer lv 2, as you can use an infused item as component. For example, you can infuse a shield and use it as component. There are still issues with casting costly components spells, or using Arcane Grimoires, but at least you don't need to hold the tool in your hand. However, two levels in Artificer are very costly in the long run, because your Wizard spell progression is much slower and you get fewer spell slots.

stoutstien
2023-10-31, 11:15 AM
One thing to mention in a guide to the Artificer class is the problem of managing spell components while holding the infused item in your hand.

Many people forget about this limitation when multiclassing, especially with the Wizard class.

At first level, you need to hold a tool in your hand to cast Artificer spells. This makes it very difficult to use a shield, because you still need the other hand for casting spells from other classes. For example, an Artificer 1 / Wizard X, would not be able to hold a Shield, a tool for casting Artificer spells, and a Component Pouch for casting Wizard spells; and they would not have a free hand to cast S or V,S spells like most cantrips and the Absorb Element/Shield spells. The situation gets more complex if you need a spell with costly material components, because you need another hand for that. Moreover, it gets even more difficult to hold an Arcane Grimoire, a magical staff, or any other item that give bonuses to Wizard spells.

This becomes a bit better at Artificer lv 2, as you can use an infused item as component. For example, you can infuse a shield and use it as component. There are still issues with casting costly components spells, or using Arcane Grimoires, but at least you don't need to hold the tool in your hand. However, two levels in Artificer are very costly in the long run, because your Wizard spell progression is much slower and you get fewer spell slots.

The only "in combat" spells the artificer might use that has a costly spell components are greater restoration and *maybe* warding bond for battlesmith.

(I mean there is stoneskin but yea)

Unoriginal
2023-10-31, 11:32 AM
The only "in combat" spells the artificer might use that has a costly spell components are greater restoration and *maybe* warding bond for battlesmith.

(I mean there is stoneskin but yea)

Yeah, Stoneskin is one of the worst spells in the game.

Akal Saris
2023-10-31, 11:48 AM
You mention that tools are like free expertise, but I don't believe you can 'stack' proficiency bonuses from being trained as well as using a tool, it should be one or the other.

stoutstien
2023-10-31, 12:31 PM
You mention that tools are like free expertise, but I don't believe you can 'stack' proficiency bonuses from being trained as well as using a tool, it should be one or the other.

probably meant granting advantage using XGtE rules which does let you stack prof is a limited capacity.

Blatant Beast
2023-11-01, 12:56 AM
Any guide that disregard magic tinkering as just fluff already loses all interests for me.

If you can't think of three dozen ways that you can circumvent challenges with that feature you're playing the wrong class.

Magical Tinkering comes down to Cantrip level magic….you can create a nightlight, or distract things via smells or sounds, or just graffiti your chosen object.

While there is some utility to be had, quantifying that utility will be difficult as it just depends upon individual circumstances.

Frankly, an Artificer review that waxes on poetically for 12 pages about how making a rock that smells like bacon can allow you to take out the entire White Kingdom of Ghouls would kill my interest in reading it.

Now that said, bacon odor emitting rock pairs well with the Snare spell and Conjure Bonfire. :)

High Level Artificers are kinda gas, especially in games with good Magic items. The class has an excellent spell list. I am saddened that One D&D does not seem to be supporting the Artificer in the 2024 PHB.

Muad'dib
2023-11-01, 05:19 AM
Yeah, Stoneskin is one of the worst spells in the game.
Summon construct has a costly focus and is worth using in combat. Unless you're already using your bonus actions.

follacchioso
2023-11-01, 07:44 AM
The only "in combat" spells the artificer might use that has a costly spell components are greater restoration and *maybe* warding bond for battlesmith.

(I mean there is stoneskin but yea)
I was referring more to the Artificer/Wizard Multiclass combo, which is a relatively common build. I've seen many wizards take one level as Artificer to get Armor and Shield proficiency, without applying the rules for spell components.

stoutstien
2023-11-01, 01:52 PM
Summon construct has a costly focus and is worth using in combat. Unless you're already using your bonus actions.

With an hour duration I wouldn't expect you to make a habit of popping it during combat.

bonus actions are in short supply for most artificers. Armorer stands out as the general outlier but they already bypass the hand economy with armor as focus.

Muad'dib
2023-11-02, 08:32 AM
With an hour duration I wouldn't expect you to make a habit of popping it during combat.

bonus actions are in short supply for most artificers. Armorer stands out as the general outlier but they already bypass the hand economy with armor as focus.
I think it depends entirely on the situation. Even with an hour duration, it's not necessarily something I'd keep up unless I knew I needed it, especially given an artificer that level does have a lot of options. But it certainly can be worth casting in battle if you find yourself in one of those situations where your need an extra body.

stoutstien
2023-11-02, 05:15 PM
I think it depends entirely on the situation. Even with an hour duration, it's not necessarily something I'd keep up unless I knew I needed it, especially given an artificer that level does have a lot of options. But it certainly can be worth casting in battle if you find yourself in one of those situations where your need an extra body.
Eh you need body sure but in my experience it's rarely prepared anyways.

Even then the total list of spells on the artificer list that calls for expensive components is miniscule.

follacchioso
2023-11-03, 05:25 AM
With an hour duration I wouldn't expect you to make a habit of popping it during combat.

bonus actions are in short supply for most artificers. Armorer stands out as the general outlier but they already bypass the hand economy with armor as focus.You don't need a BA to command the Construct.

Summoning it in combat has some good advantages. For example, summon it next to enemy archers and wizards, and slow them down (Stone) or use it as a distraction (Metal). Have somebody else cast Sickening Radiance or CloudKill, while the construct slows them down and grapples them. This kind of stuff.

Starting from Artificer lv2, holding expensive material components and magic items is not so much complex, because you can infuse a shield and use it as focus. The problem is when you want to cast spells from another class, with Wizard being the most frequent choice.

stoutstien
2023-11-03, 05:58 AM
You don't need a BA to command the Construct.

Summoning it in combat has some good advantages. For example, summon it next to enemy archers and wizards, and slow them down (Stone) or use it as a distraction (Metal). Have somebody else cast Sickening Radiance or CloudKill, while the construct slows them down and grapples them. This kind of stuff.

Starting from Artificer lv2, holding expensive material components and magic items is not so much complex, because you can infuse a shield and use it as focus. The problem is when you want to cast spells from another class, with Wizard being the most frequent choice.

Hmm. Forgot I added the BA for those summons to keep them from steamrolling action economy. Still rarely see it used. It seems like it's a flexible spell but by the time it comes on line at lv 13+ you already have plans in place for about ever type of problem. For a 4th lv slot I'd want something way more impactful than 1-2 rounds or distraction like the time out bubble.

Eh. Multiclassing is messed up 9 ways from Sunday and spell components isn't even close to making the list of issues to consider. I have very little pity for those who want to circumvent classes weaknesses without major investment.

The tools required feature turns out to be more of a buff than it is a hindrance because it allows an artificer with spells that traditionally wouldn't be able to cast because they only have somatic costs now have a material one a well. Such as a battlesmith who can cast shield with their hands full without war caster.

thegreatqwerty
2023-11-07, 06:47 PM
Mi tip for low-level artificers would be to not sleep on the Pot of Awakening infusion. Given enough time, it can allow you to make a small army of minions, which unlike the homunculus will persist even after you replace said infusion with another. Even if your GM only allows one shrub, its still an amazing pick at lower levels:


you can hand them magic stones to double your damage output
it can reload your hand crossbow if you have used repeating shot with one of your teammates
it can administer potions or use items without taking up your bonus action
has a decent amount of hp (even more if you use a protector cannon)
unlike the homunculus, its FREE
can camouflage perfectly in a forest environment AND can speak one language, making for an ok scout
good for rp purposes

Around lv5 or so it starts to fall off, since no matter how much you buff it it will still die in one hit to any source of fire damage. But still, at levels 2-4 I'd say its a solid pick for any artificer.

Actually, I LOVE PoA on Artificer. you can get like 2358973857 of them, and they all have their own turns. If you hate Shrub Deaths, don't read this.
...
where's the spolier?
Aaracockra Artificer dropping Awakened shrub. Like Conjure Airstrike but more. like 10 of them at a time. At level 2. wowzas.

thegreatqwerty
2023-11-07, 06:49 PM
You mention that tools are like free expertise, but I don't believe you can 'stack' proficiency bonuses from being trained as well as using a tool, it should be one or the other.
No, you get expertise in 3 things.

thegreatqwerty
2023-11-07, 06:49 PM
probably meant granting advantage using XGtE rules which does let you stack prof is a limited capacity.

huh. that too ig

thegreatqwerty
2023-11-07, 06:53 PM
Sorry y'all, I don't think that this kind of guide is for me. there are other ones. :( sorry for wasting all your time. however this really devolved into an Artificer talk anyway. CHAOS!