Here's a funny question about the genie warlock ability

[The-Sorcerer12]

So say you give your familiar your genie vessel. Then you go inside it. Then while inside the vessel you temporarily dismiss your familiar. Do they still have the vessel and if you resummon them into the vessel do you have the vessel inside itself?

[Psyren]

"Whenever the familiar drops to 0 hit points or disappears into the pocket dimension, it leaves behind in its space anything it was wearing or carrying."

Your vessel doesn't go with them, it just falls on the ground wherever they were. Resummon them inside, and your vessel is still on the ground out in the real world.

[Anymage]

Whenever the familiar drops to 0 hit points or disappears into the pocket dimension, it leaves behind in its space anything it was wearing or carrying.

If you dismiss it, the vessel falls to the ground. If you resummon it inside the vessel, you're both chilling together inside a vessel that's sitting on the ground.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[Damon_Tor]

Have him swallow it then. Not being worn or carried. What now?

[Psyren]

Have him swallow it then. Not being worn or carried. What now?

Putting aside that "carried" is debatable in this context, both the vessel and familiar are Tiny. Ever swallow something the same size as you?

[Blatant Beast]

A house cat is tiny sized in 5e, as is the mouse it chases.

[Witty Username]

Dwarf and Goliath are both medium too.

[Psyren]

A house cat is tiny sized in 5e, as is the mouse it chases.

Cats aren't pythons, they bite pieces off and chew. Assuming your familiar somehow has teeth capable of doing that, the vessel would be destroyed and eject all of you into its space before the familiar could finish its meal.


Dwarf and Goliath are both medium too.

Dwarves are Medium due to being overly stocky/wide for their height.

[Blatant Beast]

Size in 5e only serves as guidance for what can grapple what, and for non theatre of the mind games, how much combat grid space is taken up and what can pass through your square.

A flea is tiny size, as is the cat the flea sits upon. The other poster is moving the goal posts and commenting on a single swallow attack….which is a pretty rare ability for creatures to have, regardless of size.

[Psyren]

Size in 5e only serves as guidance for what can grapple what, and for non theatre of the mind games, how much combat grid space is taken up and what can pass through your square.

A flea is tiny size, as is the cat the flea sits upon. The other poster is moving the goal posts and commenting on a single swallow attack….which is a pretty rare ability for creatures to have, regardless of size.

The actual goalposts are:



"carried" is debatable in this context

Everything else is just an amusement, to be taken exactly as seriously as a cat swallowing a bottle whole.

[Mastikator]

Have him swallow it then. Not being worn or carried. What now?

The genie vessel is destroyed by the stomach acids. The genie punishes you for disrespecting his gift by turning you into his familiar.

Edit- I should clarify, the genie doesn't turn the character into a familiar, he turns the player into a familiar. So great is the power of the genie that though he is fictional, he can pull real people into his fictional world and turn them into familiars. I've lost many friends who tried this trick :smalleek:

[Amnestic]

Edit- I should clarify, the genie doesn't turn the character into a familiar, he turns the player into a familiar. So great is the power of the genie that though he is fictional, he can pull real people into his fictional world and turn them into familiars. I've lost many friends who tried this trick :smalleek:

Turn me into an immortal kitty cat spirit?

There are worse fates...

[Damon_Tor]

...exactly as seriously as a cat swallowing a bottle whole.

IIRC, the genie "bottle" can be something as small as a ring. And I promise you cats can swallow rings, something I can attest to from firsthand experience. A cat's stomach acid isn't strong enough to damage a metal ring (which, again, I can confirm) so we should be in the clear.

[PhoenixPhyre]

IIRC, the genie "bottle" can be something as small as a ring. And I promise you cats can swallow rings, something I can attest to from firsthand experience. A cat's stomach acid isn't strong enough to damage a metal ring (which, again, I can confirm) so we should be in the clear.

I prefer the interpretation that familiars, being spirits temporarily embodied, don't take their bodies with them when they poof. That is, everything they've eaten, are carrying/wearing/etc stays behind as the body unravels. Which does raise the question of whether they have actual digestive processes...I'd say yes, because the mental image of half-digested food and hairballs suddenly appearing where the body of the familiar was is too amusing to pass up. :smallbiggrin:

Summoning the familiar is creating a body for it to inhabit and interact with the material world in this interpretation.

[Psyren]

IIRC, the genie "bottle" can be something as small as a ring. And I promise you cats can swallow rings, something I can attest to from firsthand experience. A cat's stomach acid isn't strong enough to damage a metal ring (which, again, I can confirm) so we should be in the clear.

Which leaves us at the actual goalposts as stated above.


Summoning the familiar is creating a body for it to inhabit and interact with the material world in this interpretation.

This is indeed exactly how find familiar works - it's a spirit that takes an animal form created by the spell, not an actual animal being pulled from somewhere.

[sithlordnergal]

So, given Familiars disappear and leave behind their stuff means its pretty clear cut, the item drops to the ground. That said, I think a question that is similar to the original intent would be "What happens if a Druid Wildshapes while holding the vessel, and chooses to have the vessel merge with their new form, with the Warlock inside of it"

Its no longer moving a goalpost, since the question is still in the same vein as the OG question.

As for the familiar swallowing it...I feel like it'd still be left behind since the body simply stops existing, more or less.

[Anymage]

My read on the OP was that he was asking how to get the talisman inside itself. In which case if a player were trying to find a way to make that work I'd remind them that placing an extradimensional space inside another extradimensional space does not tend to go well, and use that as my guideline if they continue insisting on trying to fit an extradimensional space inside of itself.

If the vessel is merged into a shapechanger? I'd rule that the vessel is metaphysically whole, but not able to be touched until it's removed. The warlock can stay inside if he was inside to begin with, but pops out to a nearby square when his time is up. This also applies if the shapechanger is petrified or otherwise indefinitely incapacitated in some way that doesn't cause them to revert or destroy the body. Better ask your patron for a new one.

(If a warlock replaced their vessel while the original was inside a shapechanger, I'd rule that the shapechanger would feel some twinge but be otherwise unaffected, until they reverted to see that the vessel thy had been carrying had been broken. And I'd make a similar "metaphysically sound but inaccessible" ruling for other magic items that are merged. If the shapechanger is carrying a bag of holding its contents would exist but be unavailable, until either the shapechanger reverted or its body was destroyed.)

Almost any other fate I can think of would practically boil down to the destruction of the vessel, sending it somewhere hazardous, or sending it somewhere arbitrarily far away. The first has clear consequences in the rules. The second will likely lead to the destruction of the vessel in the short term, and then lead to the destruction of the warlock either when the vessel is destroyed or the time is up. The third is not directly harmful, but in practice still winds up removing the warlock from the campaign.

[Amnestic]

Wild Shape says equipment gets merged, and doesn't mention creautres. Strict reading for me is that the anyone inside the vessel (or a bag of holding, which applies just the same class-agnostic) would get shunted out and appear adjacent if you tried to merge them. Possibly breaking the vessel/BoH in the process.

That said I could be convinced that the ambiguity is adequate for creatures inside the spaces to get merged as well, in which case I'd force them Unconscious while they're merged. No concentrating on a spell and then hopping inside the druid to protect yourself.

[Chronos]

Quoth Anymage:

In which case if a player were trying to find a way to make that work I'd remind them that placing an extradimensional space inside another extradimensional space does not tend to go well,...
That's so three editions ago.

[Blatant Beast]

Which does raise the question of whether they have actual digestive processes...I'd say yes, because the mental image of half-digested food and hairballs suddenly appearing where the body of the familiar was is too amusing to pass up. :smallbiggrin:


Herlock Solmes, famed Inquisitive, discovers a piece of half digested carrot on stage at the famed Waterdeep establishment known as the Magic Castle. With that clue, Herlock Solmes figured out how the Conjurer makes the rabbit disappear in their act. The rabbit is a familiar.

I love that sort of metaphysical addition to rules. It brings the game world to life, and leads to unexpected results, which is so much fun.

I wish that D&D discourse was more focused on sharing these sort of creative bits, then constant wrangling over RAW.

On the other hand, nothing is quite as excruciating then being forced to listen to someone go on and on about their ‘special world’ in intricate detail when you have no interest….I know I have stopped going to certain FLGS, because they were too friendly in this regard.

[Psyren]

Do PCs have digestive processes? There's no rules for... uh... elimination for anybody.

[KorvinStarmast]

The genie vessel is destroyed by the stomach acids. The genie punishes you for disrespecting his gift by turning you into his familiar.

Edit- I should clarify, the genie doesn't turn the character into a familiar, he turns the player into a familiar. So great is the power of the genie that though he is fictional, he can pull real people into his fictional world and turn them into familiars. I've lost many friends who tried this trick :smalleek: This strikes me as the correct answer.

Herlock Solmes, famed Inquisitive, discovers a piece of half digested carrot on stage at the famed Waterdeep establishment known as the Magic Castle. With that clue, Herlock Solmes figured out how the Conjurer makes the rabbit disappear in their act. The rabbit is a familiar.
---
I wish that D&D discourse was more focused on sharing these sort of creative bits, then constant wrangling over RAW. Yeah.

Do PCs have digestive processes? There's no rules for... uh... elimination for anybody. We figured out that, per RAW, a drunken barbarian inside of Leomund's Tiny Hut could pee out when he felt that overpressure on his bladder. The other party members inside the hut appreciated that finding.

[Psyren]

Herlock Solmes, famed Inquisitive, discovers a piece of half digested carrot on stage at the famed Waterdeep establishment known as the Magic Castle. With that clue, Herlock Solmes figured out how the Conjurer makes the rabbit disappear in their act. The rabbit is a familiar.

I love that sort of metaphysical addition to rules. It brings the game world to life, and leads to unexpected results, which is so much fun.

I wish that D&D discourse was more focused on sharing these sort of creative bits, then constant wrangling over RAW.

So start a thread on that. Be the change etc.

And wrangling over RAW can be fun too. Case in point:



We figured out that, per RAW, a drunken barbarian inside of Leomund's Tiny Hut could pee out when he felt that overpressure on his bladder. The other party members inside the hut appreciated that finding.

As written, even if he sprays the entire party they'll be comfortable and dry :smallbiggrin:

[Blatant Beast]

So start a thread on that. Be the change etc.

And wrangling over RAW can be fun too.

The last thread I started, turned into an unpleasant experience.
I can certainly understand people being wary of an unknown quantity,(myself), and I am fine if people disagree with my opinions or arguments, (it is a discussion board), but the criticisms in that thread felt more like personal attacks.

The worse part was quite a few of those posts were written presuming I held certain opinions which of course I didn’t.

It just wasn’t fun, so I think I will just participate in threads and work on my street cred here, before starting another thread.

Nigh 10 years into 5e, it seems most RAW has been tackled. We know the knowns, we know the known unknowns were RAW can be interpreted multiple ways, and we know people seem to get quite passionate about these things. 😉

[tKUUNK]

This is the sort of curiosity that gets entire worlds imploded.

[thoroughlyS]

The correct answer is that it would drop in the familiar's space, as many have said above. I think the "fun" answer would be that the vessel gets brought into the pocket dimension with the familiar, and at that point you're trapped*. Roll a new character. Obviously, this should be directly told to the player before they make that decision.

*When you leave the vessel (including if it breaks), you'd also be in the pocket dimension with no defined way out. Causing the familiar to reappear would just move it to a space within 30 feet of you. Permanently dismissing the familiar probably collapses the pocket dimension, but there is not a definitive answer what happens to you. You could just get collapsed, or shunted into the Astral, or shunted somewhere random on the Prime.

[Psyren]

The last thread I started, turned into an unpleasant experience.
I can certainly understand people being wary of an unknown quantity,(myself), and I am fine if people disagree with my opinions or arguments, (it is a discussion board), but the criticisms in that thread felt more like personal attacks.

The worse part was quite a few of those posts were written presuming I held certain opinions which of course I didn’t.

It just wasn’t fun, so I think I will just participate in threads and work on my street cred here, before starting another thread.

Nigh 10 years into 5e, it seems most RAW has been tackled. We know the knowns, we know the known unknowns were RAW can be interpreted multiple ways, and we know people seem to get quite passionate about these things. 😉

It's your choice of course, but I see new people start productive threads all the time :smallsmile:

The fact that 5e RAW is as well-mapped as it is (though I disagree that there's nothing new left to discover) means that discussing the more adjudication-based edge cases should be even more fruitful in my mind. And sure, you're not likely to get uniform consensus on any of it, but that's the beauty of 5e imo.


The correct answer is that it would drop in the familiar's space, as many have said above. I think the "fun" answer would be that the vessel gets brought into the pocket dimension with the familiar, and at that point you're trapped*. Roll a new character. Obviously, this should be directly told to the player before they make that decision.

*When you leave the vessel (including if it breaks), you'd also be in the pocket dimension with no defined way out. Causing the familiar to reappear would just move it to a space within 30 feet of you. Permanently dismissing the familiar probably collapses the pocket dimension, but there is not a definitive answer what happens to you. You could just get collapsed, or shunted into the Astral, or shunted somewhere random on the Prime.

There's another strict RAW interpretation here as well:


"Bottled Respite: As an action, you can magically vanish and enter your vessel, which remains in the space you left."

If you're going for strict RAW, you could argue that the vessel can't be moved at all while it's being used for Bottled Respite/Sanctuary Vessel, even if it is capable of being swallowed or picked up; it must "remain in the space you left." I wouldn't need to rule it this way, but this could be pointed out to someone who is insistent that their ring vessel can be swallowed and taken inside itself.