Need Help With A Spinosaurus Mod For Totem Warrior

[Sparky McDibben]

Hey y'all,

So earlier this evening, my barbarian player killed and ate the heart of a spinosaurus (big ambush predator dinosaur). So I figure that should unlock something for Totem Warrior, right? He's currently a Bear Totem barbarian, and I'd like to give him some competitive options:

His 3rd level option:

Savage Ambusher. The deadliest predators stack the deck in their favor. When you hit with an attack roll made with advantage, you may add 2d6 to the damage roll.

His 6th level option:

Terror of the Sea. You gain a swim speed equal to your walking speed, and are able to hold your breath up to 15 minutes.

His 14th level option:

Push 'Em Around. Strike hard, strike fast, and show no mercy. While raging, you can use a bonus action to shove a creature as normal.

Need to know if this is roughly in line with Bear Totem at level 3, and roughly in line with the other totem warrior options at levels 6 and 14.

Thanks!

[JNAProductions]

Adding 2d6 damage when attacking with Advantage is probably too much.

Compared to Zealot Barbarian, which is generally considered quite good of a subclass, they add 1d6+(Barbarian Level/2) damage once per your turn, and only when Raging. We'll round up for Zealot, and leave Strength Modifier out since it should be the same for both.

Level 3: Zealot does 3d6+4 (14.5), Totem does 4d6+2 (16)
Level 5: Zealot does 5d6+5 (22.5), Totem does 8d6+2 (30)
Level 11: Zealot does 5d6+9 (26.5), Totem does 8d6+3 (31)
Level 20: Zealot does 5d6+14 (31.5), Totem does 8d6+4 (32)

So the Zealot NEVER gets as much damage, if all attacks hit.
The Zealot might have a small advantage in DPR at higher levels when raging, due to how they only need one attack to hit to deal their bonus damage, but it's not a massive amount.

In other words, the level 3 feature is overtuned.
The rest looks fine.

[Sparky McDibben]

Adding 2d6 damage when attacking with Advantage is probably too much.

Compared to Zealot Barbarian, which is generally considered quite good of a subclass, they add 1d6+(Barbarian Level/2) damage once per your turn, and only when Raging. We'll round up for Zealot, and leave Strength Modifier out since it should be the same for both.

Level 3: Zealot does 3d6+4 (14.5), Totem does 4d6+2 (16)
Level 5: Zealot does 5d6+5 (22.5), Totem does 8d6+2 (30)
Level 11: Zealot does 5d6+9 (26.5), Totem does 8d6+3 (31)
Level 20: Zealot does 5d6+14 (31.5), Totem does 8d6+4 (32)

So the Zealot NEVER gets as much damage, if all attacks hit.
The Zealot might have a small advantage in DPR at higher levels when raging, due to how they only need one attack to hit to deal their bonus damage, but it's not a massive amount.

In other words, the level 3 feature is overtuned.
The rest looks fine.

Thanks for this feedback!

[Damon_Tor]

I agree savage ambusher is too much: a barbarian basically always has advantage available and it has nothing to do with anything like an "ambush". Also, third level barbarian abilities (almost?) always require rage to function.

I'd prefer to see big damage linked to a first-turn ability akin to the assassin, gloom stalker, or bugbear. Something like "Whenever you roll initiative you can enter your rage immediately as a reaction. If you do, your attacks deal double damage to creatures that haven't taken an action yet."

[RogueJK]

I agree savage ambusher is too much: a barbarian basically always has advantage available and it has nothing to do with anything like an "ambush". Also, third level barbarian abilities (almost?) always require rage to function.

I'd prefer to see big damage linked to a first-turn ability akin to the assassin, gloom stalker, or bugbear. Something like "Whenever you roll initiative you can enter your rage immediately as a reaction. If you do, your attacks deal double damage to creatures that haven't taken an action yet."

If you go this route, consider also adding something like CONMOD to Initiative (similar to Gloomstalker's WISMOD to Initiative), or perhaps Advantage on Initiative, in order to make this double damage more likely to trigger.

There's nothing more disappointing than a primary subclass ability that rarely triggers.

[Quietus]

If you go this route, consider also adding something like CONMOD to Initiative (similar to Gloomstalker's WISMOD to Initiative), or perhaps Advantage on Initiative, in order to make this double damage more likely to trigger.

There's nothing more disappointing than a primary subclass ability that rarely triggers.

Barbarians already get advantage to initiative.

[RogueJK]

Good catch. I forgot about the Level 7 feature. I'd still suggest considering +CONMOD, to make it more of a sure thing, and to help bridge the gap for Levels 3-6.

[Mastikator]

Hey y'all,

So earlier this evening, my barbarian player killed and ate the heart of a spinosaurus (big ambush predator dinosaur). So I figure that should unlock something for Totem Warrior, right? He's currently a Bear Totem barbarian, and I'd like to give him some competitive options:

His 3rd level option:

Savage Ambusher. The deadliest predators stack the deck in their favor. When you hit with an attack roll made with advantage, you may add 2d6 to the damage roll.

His 6th level option:

Terror of the Sea. You gain a swim speed equal to your walking speed, and are able to hold your breath up to 15 minutes.

His 14th level option:

Push 'Em Around. Strike hard, strike fast, and show no mercy. While raging, you can use a bonus action to shove a creature as normal.

Need to know if this is roughly in line with Bear Totem at level 3, and roughly in line with the other totem warrior options at levels 6 and 14.

Thanks!

I think if it's supposed to lean into the semi-aquatic ambush predator theme then it should grant features that lets the barbarian be a semi-aquatic ambusher. The swim speed is right but not the damage IMO. There needs to be stealth here.

Something like
Level 3, Savage ambusher: when you hit a creature that hasn't taken their turn yet, add 2d6 damage. Gain proficiency in stealth.

Level 6, Aquatic ambusher: gain swim speed equal to movement speed. Can hold breath for 1 hour. Can enter stealth as a part of activating rage, have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth).

Level 14, Terror of the sea and land: you can hide as a bonus action. When you attack someone you are hidden from add 2d6 damage. Once per rage, when you reduce a creature to 0 hp while raging you can as a free action cause a number of creatures equal to your constitution modifier within 30 feet to become frightened for 1 minute if they fail a wisdom saving throw. The DC is 8 + proficiency mod + constitution mod. At the end of the turn they can make a new save to end the effect.

-

The level 3 effect mimics the bugbear's ability, and gives one proficiency which helps with ambushes. So I feel it is balanced, you'll realistically only get to use it once per combat, and only against those you've beaten in initiative. But with 2 attacks at level 5 it scales a bit.

The level 6 is similar to the beast's ability but less flexible, however it also lets you stealth "for free" and gives a juicy advantage to make up for the lack of flexibility. It also synchronizes with the level 7 feature (from tasha's), going first, ignoring surprise. It also gives advantage on the first attack from stealth rather than reckless attack on the first round.

The level 14 basically gives one of the rogue's features: bonus action hide and sneak attack, which stacks with the bonus damage on the first turn, basically 4d6 into 2d6 bonus damage on the first turn, and a potential 2d6 on every turn thereafter. I think 2d6 and hide is easily justified on level 14. And I think the frightened condition leans into the whole "terror" bit.

Edit- this is just a draft to be an example of how mechanics should lean into the theme. For instance the 3rd wolf totem gives advantage to everyone if you use reckless attack, this simulates the wolf's pack tactics which is very wolfy. If you're doing a semi-aquatic ambush predator then the mechanics should enable the player to ambush, IE attack from stealth and pounce on the first round for extra effect. I think the swim speed is just right at level 6, but just adding 2d6 flat bonus damage is way too high, it should be contingent on the ambush.