Ruleset for a Diablo-like game

[Skrum]

I'm working on a game where I'm trying to create a lot of the mechanical feel of the Diablo franchise (lots of combat/action, lots of loot), and this is my draft so far.

Character Creation
All official WotC content is approved
Characters begin at level 1
All classes are approved
Most official races are approved except the following -
Fairy
Aarakocra
Owlkin
Plasmoid
Thri-kreen
Simic Hybrid
Centaur
Hadozee
Winged Tiefling
Variant human
Tasha’s custom lineage

Characters start with 3,500 gp with which to train and buy equipment

Character Progression
Character level max is 8

Characters advance in level by purchasing training sessions from various trainers at the Hall. A training session (advancing a character by 1 level) costs the following amount. Taking levels in classes with full casting progression (cleric, wizard, sorcerer, druid, and bard) cost more. This price is determined by overall level; a fighter 5 who wishes to take their 6th level as a wizard would pay 10,750 gold to do so

Character Level.......Cost............Cost for Full Casters
2..........................1,000.................. 1,250
3..........................1,500.................. 1,850
4..........................3,000.................. 3,775
5..........................5,500.................. 6,875
6..........................8,500.................. 10,750
7..........................12,000................. 14,875
8..........................16,000................. 20,625

Items
All officially published magic items are approved at the following prices, for sale in the various Halls
Common: 100 gp
Uncommon: 500 gp
Rare: 2,500 gp
Very Rare: 12,500 gp

The idea behind the "xp" difference between the casters and martials is to give the martial classes some extra gold with which to buy equipment. Classes that need armor and weapons to function effectively need to buy some of their core features, and I wanted that accounted for in the leveling process.

The amounts are quite specific - assuming both characters leveled whenever they had the funds, at level 3, a fighter will be 1 uncommon item and 1 common item ahead of the wizard. At level 6, the fighter will be 2 rare items ahead of the wizard. At level 8, the fighter will be 1 very rare item ahead of the wizard

Additional Character Rules
All characters gain a bonus feat at 1st level
ASI’s are gained according to total character level (4th and 8th)
Barbarians, fighters, monks, rangers, rogues, and warlocks gain an additional ASI at class level 5
Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards gain a 3rd cantrip dice at class level 8
Rogue gains the Extra Attack feature at level 5
Levels in barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, and rogue stack with regards to gaining the Extra Attack feature (i.e., any combination of these classes that add up to at least 5 gains Extra Attack)

IMO, paladin and artificer are the best balanced classes in the game, so most of my adjustments are around that - boosting the classes that are worse, nerfing the classes that are better.

Finally, I gave all of the full casters + warlock a "capstone." 1) Giving them a good at-will damage ability fits the ARPG theme, 2) since they spent so much gold to get to level 8, they should get something for it, and 3) I wanted to off-set the attraction of dipping for heavy armor prof. Especially with the cap being level 8, there's *no* reason for a wizard to not take 1 level of fighter - but now there is in the form of 3dX cantrips

[J-H]

Can you clarify exactly what feel you're wanting?

You may want to include the Cleave Through rule. If your melee weapon damage kills an enemy and there's damage left over, it transfers to an adjacent enemy if your attack roll was high enough to beat that enemy's AC.

[Amnestic]

If you're doing a lot of combat between rests and keeping the standard SR/LR paradigm for resource restoration, then I don't think you need to make full caster levels more expensive, especially if they're starting off at 1st level.

Diablo games are action games, with a few moments outside of combat being enough to get the character back to full performance. You're going to struggle to replicate that feel in 5e (which has its combat that involves resource attrition over combats as a major aspect).

[Skrum]

Can you clarify exactly what feel you're wanting?

I would say Diablo-inspired. I want to make a loot-driven dnd game that's mostly focused on combat, skill challenges, and exploration. Character "death" is going be a simple respawn at the main base of operations (the narrative around this is the characters are in Valhalla, and are already dead). The challenge of the game will be navigating through the wilderness, picking winnable fights, and doing well enough to collect loot.



You may want to include the Cleave Through rule. If your melee weapon damage kills an enemy and there's damage left over, it transfers to an adjacent enemy if your attack roll was high enough to beat that enemy's AC.

I actually do have the cleave rule - there's another short list of table rules I didn't include cause I wanted to talk about the character creation rules specifically.


If you're doing a lot of combat between rests and keeping the standard SR/LR paradigm for resource restoration, then I don't think you need to make full caster levels more expensive, especially if they're starting off at 1st level.

I would assume most people are going to start at 3rd - everyone gets enough gold to level to 3rd if they want, plus buy a few common items. The rests are going to be SR is 5 minutes, LR is 24 hours. Long rests are only going to be possible at the main base, but characters will be able to teleport back whenever they want (but, monsters will "respawn" within that time).



Diablo games are action games, with a few moments outside of combat being enough to get the character back to full performance. You're going to struggle to replicate that feel in 5e (which has its combat that involves resource attrition over combats as a major aspect).

Resource usage is going to be much more of a factor in this game than in Diablo, for sure. I'm not really trying to make Diablo in every aspect, more like 5e as a vehicle for an ARPG. Diablo happens to be a big reference point for me (along with Grim Dawn).

[Trask]

Looks solid to me. I would be tempted to say only humans though :smallamused:.

I think the variable training cost is actually kind of a cool idea. Its like a lite version of old school variable experience tables, too old school for modern crowds but the idea that wizard school costs more than fighter school? Totally believable imo.

[Skrum]

Looks solid to me. I would be tempted to say only humans though :smallamused:.

Ha, I'm doing exactly that - most races can be used mechanically, but everyone is narratively human. The races I banned were because I thought their abilities and physiology were too strange to pretend to be human.

[Kenny_Snoggins]

It sounds like a very cool and fun concept! I assume the monsters are just dropping gold and not items from how you described it.

I think you had the right idea giving rogues multiattack, but I think bards will need that too, as their main utility (social and skills) is going to be basically worthless and unless they multiclass their magic is very flimsy in terms of damage. That would be closer to the old idea that bards are like automatic gishes, but you could do something else like more magical secrets or let them cast one of the wimpy bard cantrips as a bonus action or something. They will probably need a boost. Or give them an aura that could work.

You could also drain money with lodging costs if needed, and make gold an encumbrance that has to be considered.

I'm assuming this is a Diablo 4 style campaign where it's not 100% dungeons like in the original. If not, then rangers and any mounted combat archetypes will need a boost for their lost utility. Also be careful with magic item pricing. There are some magic items (slippers of spider climb, broom of flying, sentinal shield, boots of flying etc) that have way more power than their rarity would suggest.

[Skrum]

It sounds like a very cool and fun concept! I assume the monsters are just dropping gold and not items from how you described it.

I'm going to have "legendary" homebrew items that I make up



I think you had the right idea giving rogues multiattack, but I think bards will need that too, as their main utility (social and skills) is going to be basically worthless and unless they multiclass their magic is very flimsy in terms of damage. That would be closer to the old idea that bards are like automatic gishes, but you could do something else like more magical secrets or let them cast one of the wimpy bard cantrips as a bonus action or something. They will probably need a boost. Or give them an aura that could work.

I'm personally quite down on the bard and think they are weaker than the other full casters, but a lot of people disagree with me. I ultimately decided that since bards have two subclasses that give extra attack anyway, and skills are going to feature prominently in the game, that bards were ultimately fine.

Basically, while I wouldn't play a bard, I don't think they actually need a mechanical boost the way rogue does.




Also be careful with magic item pricing. There are some magic items (slippers of spider climb, broom of flying, sentinal shield, boots of flying etc) that have way more power than their rarity would suggest.

I very briefly considered this, but decided it wasn't worth doing an item by item price list. It would take forever, and I wasn't really sure what I was worried about anyway...yes there are several items that are very good and attractive to get, and if several players get those items, so be it. I'm not worried about those items causing imbalances, and since gold buys items AND levels, I just don't think there's any cause for concern.

Edit: the flying races weren't banned cause they can fly, they were banned cause all races are going to be reflavored as human, and they are too not-human :). 100% unconcerned about flying PC's

[Schwann145]

Don't forget to swap to the Spell Points system for your casters, and also introduce "mana potions." They could work just like health potions, except restoring spell points instead of hit points.
Then make sure they're very affordable and everyone has enough belt pouches to carry just a big ol bunch of them all the time. Maybe swap to bonus-action-potion-chug as the default too.
:smallbiggrin:

[Skrum]

Don't forget to swap to the Spell Points system for your casters, and also introduce "mana potions." They could work just like health potions, except restoring spell points instead of hit points.
Then make sure they're very affordable and everyone has enough belt pouches to carry just a big ol bunch of them all the time. Maybe swap to bonus-action-potion-chug as the default too.
:smallbiggrin:

If I did that I would have to give the casters only 4 mana points, so they'd constantly say "Out of mana." Can't have one without the other lol

[Schwann145]

Nah, with the amount of spell-spamming necessary in Diablo, you could leave spell point values untouched and they'd still be starved for mana. :smallwink:

Also, remember! Melee characters need to be absolute trash. Luckily, 5e has already set you up for this. :smallbiggrin:

[Kenny_Snoggins]

I'm personally quite down on the bard and think they are weaker than the other full casters, but a lot of people disagree with me. I ultimately decided that since bards have two subclasses that give extra attack anyway, and skills are going to feature prominently in the game, that bards were ultimately fine.

I very briefly considered this, but decided it wasn't worth doing an item by item price list. It would take forever, and I wasn't really sure what I was worried about anyway...yes there are several items that are very good and attractive to get, and if several players get those items, so be it. I'm not worried about those items causing imbalances, and since gold buys items AND levels, I just don't think there's any cause for concern.


Okay sounds well in hand then. I didn't know there would also be a big social skill component so I would agree, if that is the case Bards don't need any help (and really only need it at lower levels anyway. Beyond level 10, they are pretty OP with flying monstrous mounts and stolen spells and saving throw modification that just deletes bosses trivially in the case of eloquence subclass).

For magic items if you don't want to tweak the values that is understandable from a prep standpoint. I think there are several reworked GP lists online that have already done this. The only item that is universally out of place in the rarity / cost scheme are probably sentinel shields and weapons of warning. Even the DMG lists the shield as way more expensive than a regular uncommon for that reason. I mean more like it would be good to not have the costs written in stone so your shopkeepers or whatever can adjust prices based on what's developing in the dungeon, and whose buying what. Like a saddle of the cavalier is going to have a lot less impact on a fighter than a paladin or bard for example, so maybe just keep the flexibility in your back pocket.

Also do they short rest in the dungeon or is it all rests are reflected by teleporting etc out of the dungeon?

[Skrum]

Also do they short rest in the dungeon or is it all rests are reflected by teleporting etc out of the dungeon?

Short rests are going to take 5 minutes and are possible anywhere. Long rests are going to be 24 hours, only possible at the home base, and will trigger a "reset" where more enemies will be added, previous ones will get back resources, etc.