Game Where Loopholes are allowed

[crabwizard77]

How do you think it would go/what would you do, if you played in a game where the DM used no homebrew, and allowed all loopholes that are withen the rules.

[InvisibleBison]

I would expect a 100% RAW game, insomuch as that's a meaningful concept, to be an inferior experience to the alternative. A 100% RAW game would mean a game with no houserules. People make houserules in order to improve the game, so for a group to forgo any houserules would be to take a list of improvements they've made to the game and then not use them. I don't particularly see the appeal of that kind of game.

(Also, I don't think RAW is a coherent concept, but that's a topic for another thread.)

[Psyren]

How do you think it would go/what would you do, if you played in a game that was 100% RAW.

I would probably do something like in the What happens to a Druids Possesions when shape changing thread (Wildshape while holding safe, for example, so that you absorb it)

Your equipment merges with you - not literally anything you happen to be holding or carrying. A safe isn't your equipment.

[Skrum]

It'd work fine, I'd expect. Some rules would be janky (mounted combat, among others), but 5e does not have nearly the same level of "utterly broken RAW" the way 3e did.

As for what I'd play, I'd play the same thing I always do - some variety of martial melee character. Rune knight or ancients paladin, most likely, just cause that's what I've been most interested in lately.

[Snowbluff]

I'm sad to report that the game would probably run fine. I run with few houserules, so few I can seldom think of one I used recently.

[JackPhoenix]

"And as a referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them." - DMG p.4

Selectively following or ignoring the rules as the DM sees fit is completely RAW.

[tokek]

There are very few things that might break the game RAW. Infinite simulacrum chains are the obvious one.

I suspect that for most games you would be fine and see very little difference.

[Mastikator]

I run my game RAW with a few optional rules added. It works fine.

I run it this way so that if a player were to actually read the rules for once (keep dreaming Mastikator) the outcomes would be predictable.
So far they're only started in T2.
Obviously some setting specific things are banned, and players are limited to nonflying races.

[Arkhios]

RAW offers enough for a game to keep it appealing, so I wouldn't consider that an issue at all.

In fact, I would prefer any game to be played RAW. And if houserules and/or homebrew is at play, I'd prefer that they'd be in written form and mutually accepted by the whole group, not arbitrarily decided on the fly and then forgotten later.

[Mastikator]

RAW offers enough for a game to keep it appealing, so I wouldn't consider that an issue at all.

In fact, I would prefer any game to be played RAW. And if houserules and/or homebrew is at play, I'd prefer that they'd be in written form and mutually accepted by the whole group, not arbitrarily decided on the fly and then forgotten later.

Fully agreed. Rulings may be done on the fly (but DM should try to be consistent).
I always write down exactly which optional rules and house rules are at play. I know from experience how frustrating it can be to be ambushed by the DM's unwritten and undiscussed house rules and optional rules.

[Unoriginal]

It's impossible to run RAW, because anything written needs to be interpreted in order to run the game, and since people are different there will always be differences in reading.

So it's Rules as Read, not Rules as Written.

[Arkhios]

It's impossible to run RAW, because anything written needs to be interpreted in order to run the game, and since people are different there will always be differences in reading.

So it's Rules as Read, not Rules as Written.

I'd prefer WINRAR but can settle for RAR.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's true that interpretation plays a large role, so you're not wrong)

[crabwizard77]

Sorry about the confusion. I realize that RAW is the wrong term for what I am trying to describe. I have edited the opening post to clarify the question.

[Unoriginal]

How do you think it would go/what would you do, if you played in a game where the DM used no homebrew, and allowed all loopholes that are withen the rules.


If it's written in the rules it's not a loophole, it's just the game.

[crabwizard77]

If it's written in the rules it's not a loophole, it's just the game.

What I mean is if you could use stuff that is broken, like simlacrum spam

[stoutstien]

What I mean is if you could use stuff that is broken, like the Level 20 Druid Immortality.

They ain't immortal. Tough as far as HP soak goes sure but at lv 20 that is about a given for everyone.

Now if your are talking about infinite angel armies or such that different mostly due to how you blow the entire game apart.

[Mastikator]

Sorry about the confusion. I realize that RAW is the wrong term for what I am trying to describe. I have edited the opening post to clarify the question.


How do you think it would go/what would you do, if you played in a game where the DM used no homebrew, and allowed all loopholes that are withen the rules.

So basically infinite simulacrum shenanigans and similar nonsense is allowed. I would hate it. That is the short answer. I'd rather just not play if that is the option.

[KorvinStarmast]

"And as a referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them." - DMG p.4

Selectively following or ignoring the rules as the DM sees fit is completely RAW. This.

Infinite simulacrum chains are the obvious one. I suspect that for most games you would be fine and see very little difference. One has to get to level 17 for that to work. :smallcool:

It's impossible to run RAW, because anything written needs to be interpreted in order to run the game, and since people are different there will always be differences in reading. So it's Rules as Read, not Rules as Written. Fair assessment.


What I mean is if you could use stuff that is broken, like the Level 20 Druid Immortality. You can't use what isn't there.

[Psyren]

So basically infinite simulacrum shenanigans and similar nonsense is allowed. I would hate it. That is the short answer. I'd rather just not play if that is the option.

^ Yeah, I wouldn't see the point of actually playing at a table like that. You might as well resolve encounters by flipping a coin, because either the PCs optimized to the point that they're unkillable, or the DM arms-raced them to the point that they couldn't win. It becomes too swingy.

Discussing the sorts of shenanigans that might be allowed at such a table could be interesting, actually playing at one wouldn't be - for me anyway.

[crabwizard77]

^ Yeah, I wouldn't see the point of actually playing at a table like that. You might as well resolve encounters by flipping a coin, because either the PCs optimized to the point that they're unkillable, or the DM arms-raced them to the point that they couldn't win. It becomes too swingy.

Discussing the sorts of shenanigans that might be allowed at such a table could be interesting, actually playing at one wouldn't be - for me anyway.

The main reason I started this thread was to discuss what people might do, I am not actually planning on playing anything like this, because I agree it wouldn't be fun

[Mastikator]

The main reason I started this thread was to discuss what people might do, I am not actually planning on playing anything like this, because I agree it wouldn't be fun

I might try my hand at some game breaking shenanigans, or I might make character after character that are totally non-contributing and die in every combat. Basically I wouldn't play seriously.

[Psyren]

The main reason I started this thread was to discuss what people might do, I am not actually planning on playing anything like this, because I agree it wouldn't be fun

I'm telling you what I would do - not play :smallbiggrin:

If you mean "what kind of build would I run" - probably something boring like Shepherd Druid with the most favorable conjure options. Alternatively, I'd be a Wildheart Beast Barbarian with Dual Wielder since the GM would approve me "wielding" my claws.

[Oramac]

It'd work fine, I'd expect. Some rules would be janky (mounted combat, among others), but 5e does not have nearly the same level of "utterly broken RAW" the way 3e did.

As for what I'd play, I'd play the same thing I always do - some variety of martial melee character. Rune knight or ancients paladin, most likely, just cause that's what I've been most interested in lately.

Assuming we got to the required level, I'd play a single class tempest cleric, and cast contagion: slimy doom on every damn boss we see. Right up until the DM gets annoyed and has an enemy boss use it on me! :smallbiggrin:

[tokek]

The main reason I started this thread was to discuss what people might do, I am not actually planning on playing anything like this, because I agree it wouldn't be fun

I honestly think that at the table I play nobody would abuse it.

We even had that discussion when the wizard hit lvl 17 in our 1-20 campaign. The wizard player was getting all excited about what they read on the internet, then we explained how it would affect the game. They picked a different way to play.

It briefly sort of became a narrative part of the game of "when all else fails we do this" strategy. But nobody ever used it.

As for immortal level 20 druids. No they are not immortal. Ours died easier than the Ranger (admittedly rolling 40+ on stealth made the ranger obnoxiously hard for anything to even see to attack him)

[kingcheesepants]

One great loophole is using Glyphs of Warding to stack multiple buffs which normally require concentration. There is a question as to whether or not self targeting spells can be cast into a glyph but if we've got a DM liable to rule in favor of the party it's possible.

So I'd probably do some prep work and buff the whole party with just everything before big fights. Haste, Fly, Greater Invis, Magic Weapon, Draconic Transformation, Tasha's Otherworldly Guise, Shield of Faith, Intellect Fortress, Death Ward, Regenerate, Protection From Good and Evil, etc etc. This would quickly become very expensive and it would take at least a couple days of downtime depending on how many spells you're prepping but could definitely be worth it.

Oh btw you need to prep these in a demiplane but again for a loophole a portable hole could work.

[Rukelnikov]

What I mean is if you could use stuff that is broken, like simlacrum spam

It'd be like playing 3rd edition

There was a theoretical setting done way back in 3e which purpose was, how would the in game world be like if kingdoms and creatures took advantage of everything that can be done (ie circles of teleportation would make travelling routes obsolete and the like). I think it was called Tipi world or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a version of that same exercise done for 5e.

[Batcathat]

There was a theoretical setting done way back in 3e which purpose was, how would the in game world be like if kingdoms and creatures took advantage of everything that can be done (ie circles of teleportation would make travelling routes obsolete and the like). I think it was called Tipi world or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a version of that same exercise done for 5e.

Tippyverse (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy) (link goes to the original, no idea if there's a 5e equivalent).

[Rukelnikov]

Tippyverse (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy) (link goes to the original, no idea if there's a 5e equivalent).

Thanks! ! !