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View Full Version : Pathfinder build check / help smoothing it out : feysworn bard



ciopo
2023-11-13, 03:04 AM
Greetings fellow forum dwellers, last thursday session in a campaign I am was intense, seemingly betrayal by a fellow party member, a good gal falling from her code of conducts, a cult taking over the town, it was, overall a blast!

my character was the good gal in question, a blossoming light cleric / archeologist bard that had just barely entered the PrC dawnflower anchorite.
She was put ina tough spot, simplifying the situation, having the choice to use an artifact to save some friendly NPC but at cost of innocent lives, and she did chose to fire the artifact. No innocent civilians were actually harmed, because of last second pointing at the sky, heroic speech by said NPC about not throwing to the wind the good work we had been doing, good and bad feelings all around, but in the aftermath when she had time to think about her action, and realizing that this was the first time her resolve/"goodness" was truly put to test, and she would make the same choice again, it felt appropriate to me having a falling from grace, and so I'm doing some rebuilding :)

I've decided to go for feysworn, because the party is traveling with a NPC plot-heavy fey, we're kinda escorting her around as we reap some bhaalspawn-expies so that she gets that power instead of other spawns. on the general principles of "I don't know what to think anymore, but we can't let reality be destroyed, if anything else, I chose to put my trust in (fey NPC)"

I've decided a level in vigilante was appropriate, splintersoul archetype, in part to reinforce the theme of "two personalities", in part because the character wouldn't have had to attempt to use a doomsday device "if only she could X" , where X was teleport in that specific situation, but X could be just about anything, and there's past in character experiences where "if only she could X" would apply for other circumstances, so the siren call of the social talent Always Prepared is way strong.


I'd like some reality check on how the build feels to you, both in term of power, and the general concept.


I intend the modus operandi of civilian and vigilante identities to be fairly distinct. in civilian she'll be neutral good as she's been so far, with a general attitude of "I do good because I can, even if it's a small good, it's the act that matters". Compassion, redemption and second chances are fairly central themes/dogmas.

By the way the rest of the party is a LN elf magus of Gorum, a CN witch (the "betrayer", and former cult-leader of the cult that's taking over that town), then some spotty-attendance players : a LE dhampir warpriest of Urgathoa, a LG paladin/oracle of Sarenrae, a LE pain taster of Zon-Khuton

in vigilante identity, I plan to go for being CN, and be a lot more "no holds barred" in modus operandi.
Let's say, while NG, she finds the concept of "accepting lesser evil for the greater good" to be distateful and unquestionably evil, Evil is to be redeemed, and given the chance to be reedemed
when in her CN identity, she instead embraced the "for the greater good"

I plan for the NG identity to not remember what she does while in CN, whereas the CN identity remembers it all.

The fey we're bonding with is death-aspected (she's a shikigami of sort / will o' wisp), and is gaining time-aspected powers as we progress the plot

Race is custom, "quarterling" (half human /halfling), small size, 30ft movement, +1 to saving throw, 1 flexible feat, weapon finesse as fixed feat
the racial ability score modifiers I don't remember, but we also all obtained a reward ring that gives us "all the racial bonuses of dwarves, with none of the drawbacks", and I remember that my current scores are STR 9, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 23

the fey boon was custom-tailored :
obedience: go to the nearest graveyard, find the most recent grave, pray for the soul of the lost to help it move on
base bonus : +4 to dexterity-based skill checks and to initiative checks
boon 1: haste 1/day
boon 2: temporal acceleration as a PLA 1/day, ML equal to character level
boon 3: touch attack with will save-or-die, usable only on living and undead creatures, ignores racial (death) immunities, but not class-granted or spell-granted (death) immunities


Given the new "anything goes", I was planning to embrace dirty trick as my combat gimmick. Oh, we're currently 7th level

my previous feats were : (1st)lingering performance, ("human")additional traits, (fixed)weapon finesse, (1sh monk bonus) dodge, (3rd)dervish dance, (4th rogue talent)weapon focus, (5th) bless equipment, (7th)crusader flurry
as a scaled fist unchained monk 1 / blossoming light cleric 1 / archeologist bard 4 / dawnflower anchorite 1

my current game plan is, with "uncanny dodge" granted by archeologist exchanged for "improved dirty trick" granted by fey trickster :

traits: fate's favored, trap finder
skills generally kept maxed: acrobatics, disable device, perception, use magic device

1 archeologist bard 1, lingering performance, (human bonus) Agile manouvers, (fixed racial) weapon finesse
2 archeologist bard 2, improved dirty trick as bonus feat
3 archeologist bard 3, dervish dance
4 archeologist bard 4, rogue talent combat trick : piranha strike
5 splintersoul vigilante 1, always prepared social talent, fey obedience feat
6 feysworn 1
7 feysworn 2, dirty fightning (BAB is 5 at this level and can't take greater dirty trick yet)
8 feysworn 3 (haste SLA)
9 feysworn 4 quick dirty trick, or greater dirty trick
10 feysworn 5
11 feysworn 6 (temporal acceleration PLA), feat whichever I didn't take at level 9, likely greater dirty trick
12 feysowrn 7
13 feysworn 8 some feat, perhabs combat stamina ( BAB is 10 at this level, so can't take dirty trick master), perhabs kitsune style to get to the 2 conditions with one dirty trick use
14 feysworn 9 ("you die" sup. power)
15 feysworn 10 dirty trick master
16+ many things can happen between now and then, both more vigilante and more bard levels are appealing, or even somethign else altogether

Mostly, I'm looking for feedback about the dirty trick plan, does it feel appropriate? would it feel impactful enough in combat? I plan to have both that buckler and the gloves, of course. I'm relativley speaking the most accurate person when hitting in melee, at about +14, whereas the magus is more along the lines of +9 when he isn't using arcane accuracy, I don't intend to compete with shocking grasp DPR, and having a supporting role is more in character
Every feedback appreciated, thank you for your time :)

Kurald Galain
2023-11-13, 04:39 AM
You should check with your GM if he lets you use your weapon for dirty tricks. If so, you can do without the Agile Maneuvers feat.

A great rogue talent to have here is Sneaky Maneuver (make DTs as a swift action), as well as Rovagug's Thunder (deal damage with every DT).

The vigilante dip doesn't particularly add anything (you don't need class mechanics to have two distinct costumes or personalities) and I'd skip Piranha Strike because you mention you want to do support rather than damage. HTH.

ciopo
2023-11-13, 07:32 AM
I'll hear the GM about foregoing agile manouvers. My imagination fails me in regard on how to do dirty tricks with a scimitar, but I can see it applying to the burglar buckler.

Good point about rogue talent Sneaky manouver! I guess I was tunnel-visioning a bit on the trifecta of "base competency" in regard to damage with finesse weapons, and I had pre-picked piranhna strike as the rogue talent before I was actually considering what to do with all my other feats.

we're flavoring the always prepared/brilliant planner of the vigilante as my vigilante identity sending messages to the past civilian identity, so there's a strong shenanigan factors in that choice there, and it's a case of mechanical choices following story events : in the previous dungeon we'd have had a much easier time if only we were prepared with restoration scrolls/potions, we almost TPK due to water-related misadventures that would have been silver-bulleted by water-breathing or monkeyfish. There's strong precedent for the character to storngly wish being better prepared, time-traveling shenanigans notwithstanding. Probably worth mentioning it also ties in about how after last dungeon, we were all wracked with visions of alternative timelines where we failed the dungeon


thanks for the feedback, the rogue talent tip especially I'm 99% adopting

Kurald Galain
2023-11-13, 07:38 AM
My imagination fails me in regard on how to do dirty tricks with a scimitar, but I can see it applying to the burglar buckler.
You slice through the enemy's belt, causing his pants to drop and entangling him. For instance.


we're flavoring the always prepared/brilliant planner of the vigilante as my vigilante identity sending messages to the past civilian identity,
Then you might be interested in the Brilliant Planner feat? It lets you retroactively declare that you have bought some item that's precisely what you need right now.

ciopo
2023-11-13, 08:12 AM
Yeah, I mean, that's what Always Prepared gives, brilliant planner as a bonus feat, with a higher gold cap and a faster activation time. The appeal is the activation time being reduced to 1 minute there, and conversely the "stash" extra feature in case the issue isn't time-sensitive but possibly expensive, such as recovering from level drain is what I have in mind at the moment

I'm amenable to suggestion if you got something in mind I could switch it for? I would prefer something with full BAB, otherwise dirty trick master goes out the window within the frame of 15 levels, which is what I usually plan for

one more bard level does have it's own appeal, chiefly for the luck increase

Kurald Galain
2023-11-13, 08:33 AM
Right, I had missed the Always Prepared ability. You could consider the feat instead of the vigilante dip, this largely depends on whether your campaign will stick to one city (if not, then the vigilante dip loses some of its appeal).

Kurald Galain
2023-11-13, 08:55 AM
one more bard level does have it's own appeal, chiefly for the luck increase

I'd go with either that, or Maneuver Master monk (free DT on any full attack, and bonus feats), or Unchained Rogue (free Finesse feat, and bonus damage).
(edit) Probably bard, because of the spellcasting.

ciopo
2023-11-17, 10:45 AM
thank you again.

yesterday session went great, the tense reunion got resolved, all around it was RP heavy, and having the NG identity be amnesiac/ignorant of what hijinks I get up to was a blast to explore.

Anyhow, I'm considering embracing "fighting dirty" even more, and I'm considering this iteration to follow. GM already okayed re-rebuilding/tweaking, since none of those abilities got actually displayed this past session, except the dual identity and the feysworn feature.

the retooling I have in mind is: from archeologist bard 4/ splintersoul vigilante 1/ feysworn 2 (->10) to archeologist bard 2/ master of many styles Umonk 2 / splintersoul vigilante 1 / feysworn X
feats, before :
1 bard 1 lingering performance, dirty fightning, weapon finesse
2 bard 2 improved dirty trick ( in place of uncanny dodge | partially adopting the fey prankster bard archetype)
3 bard 3 dervish dance
4 bard 4 rogue talent sneaky manouvers
5 vigilante 1 always prepared, fey obedience
7 feysworn 2 piranha strike
9 feysworn 4 greater dirty tricky
11 feysworn 6 kitsune style
13 feysworn 8 kitsune tricks
15 feysworn 10 dirty trick master



after
1 bard 1 lingering performance, dirty fightning, agile manouvers
2 bard 2 improved dirty trick ( in place of uncanny dodge | partially adopting the fey prankster bard archetype)
3 monk 1 kitsune style, bonus feat cloak and dagger style (prerequisites ignored thanks to monk)
4 monk 2 bonus cloak and dagger tactics (prerequisites ignored thanks to monk)
5 vigilante 1 always prepared, fey obedience
7 feysworn 2 kitsune tricks
9 feysworn 4 greater dirty tricky
11 feysworn 6 combat style master
13 feysworn 8 kitsune vengeance
15 feysworn 10 dirty trick master


the vagueish plan is to apply 2 to 4 conditions due to the combination of kitsune and cloak&dagger styles.

I am unclear if I can actually do that, i.e. standard action dirty trick, then free action dirty trick from C&D tactics

I'm also unsure if I can actually do the stancework if I am with the burglar buckler equipped, or if I need the likes of unhindering shield?

thanks for the feedback

Kurald Galain
2023-11-17, 05:20 PM
3 monk 1 kitsune style, bonus feat cloak and dagger style (prerequisites ignored thanks to monk)
You can't use two styles at the same time.

ciopo
2023-11-17, 05:43 PM
Master of many styles monk specifically can, it replaces flurry.
It's the burglar bucker that I'm having doubts about in that regard

Kurald Galain
2023-11-17, 05:59 PM
Master of many styles monk specifically can, it replaces flurry.

Good point, I had missed that.

However, an extra attack from flurry will happen much more often than an OA attack from an adjacent enemy not 5'-stepping away before he removes the dirty trick.

ciopo
2023-11-18, 03:57 AM
my thinking is that even if monk let me ignore the orrendous prerequisites of C&D, I'd still need to be in C&D stance to make use of cloak&dagger tactics.

the effect given by kitsune/C&D styles are relatively irrelevant, as I won't often be charging, or attacking from surprise, but I'll have to be in their stances to make use of kitsune tricks / C&D tactics.

C&D tactics let me make a Dirty Trick as a free action 1/round when I successfully hit an opponent. performing a combat manouver has an attack roll, therefore if with my standard action I perform a normal DT, and it hits, that triggers the free action DT. For potentially four conditions applied, plus two fortitude saves, and them being removable in two "stacks" of two.

fwiw, I plan to be using a scorpion whip as the "one handed light weapon" chosen for C&D, possibly to plug in whip of vengeance at level 16 with more vigilante levels, as a way to threaten a bigger area (my GM ruled adjacent=area you threaten, to make bodyguard work with combat patrol) .. I might actually pursuit combat patrol, mhhh

I should add, in the rebuild I moved away from 1 level dip of scaled fist monk, because RP-wise the grace of the dawnflower left me after breaking my tenets of faith/purity (relative to blossoming light archetype), so I'm now wearing armor, which might interfere?

Kurald Galain
2023-11-18, 04:10 AM
C&D tactics let me make a Dirty Trick as a free action 1/round when I successfully hit an opponent.

Sorry, but "whenever you use the attack action to attack an opponent during a surprise round with your chosen weapon, you can attempt a dirty trick combat maneuver check against that opponent as a free action."

ciopo
2023-11-18, 04:29 AM
tactics, the third feat in the C%D line, is a free DT when opponent is denied DEX, or you are flanking, or using vital strike, plus a fortitude save for an extra condition,

I would be getting it at 4th level with the second monk bonus feat


sorry for the confusion, I could have been clearer