Ranger/ Slayer

[paladinn]

So I've been looking more into the non-base/hybrid classes in PF1, which I never really got to explore before. The ranger is one base class that I have not been particularly thrilled with. It seems to be a class in search of an identity. Is it a specialized warrior, a fighter/rogue hybrid, or a junior druid? I'm fine with dropping spellcasting; but what's left seems to be either underpowered or very situational, especially compared to, say, the paladin or the rogue or even the core fighter.

That said, the slayer hybrid class seems to go the other way. I don't know if it's too much rogue/assassin for my taste or what. I think the feature that appeals to me most is the studied target feature, which could do a lot to remedy the ranger's situational-ness. How/could I somehow combine or mash-up the two to make a less-roguish, more-ranger slayer. Again, I am not interested in spells (those are for the casters) or really sneak attack (for the rogues). I just want a warrior with Maybe a little wilderness and some combat ability outside or the favored enemy/s. Basically Aragorn.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, the ranger is by far the least-played Core class, and for good reason.

I'm going to suggest that the Rogue and Slayer both can take the Terrain Mastery talent. Is that enough of "a little wilderness" for you? Aragorn is... probably a paladin by D&D terms. He used to be the traditional ranger, but in later editions that got taken over by Drizz't clones.

There's also the Swashbuckler, Brawler, and Shifter that you could consider.

[paladinn]

Well, the ranger is by far the least-played Core class, and for good reason.

I'm going to suggest that the Rogue and Slayer both can take the Terrain Mastery talent. Is that enough of "a little wilderness" for you? Aragorn is... probably a paladin by D&D terms. He used to be the traditional ranger, but in later editions that got taken over by Drizz't clones.

There's also the Swashbuckler, Brawler, and Shifter that you could consider.

I would agree that after he got Anduril, Aragorn became more and more paladin. I'm thinking of Strider. A warrior, not a rogue. Again, the main reason I was looking at slayer was for the studied targets. I think that would be a good substitute for quarry, especially since I'm ditching spells altogether.

[Naaman]

So I've been looking more into the non-base/hybrid classes in PF1, which I never really got to explore before. The ranger is one base class that I have not been particularly thrilled with. It seems to be a class in search of an identity. Is it a specialized warrior, a fighter/rogue hybrid, or a junior druid? I'm fine with dropping spellcasting; but what's left seems to be either underpowered or very situational, especially compared to, say, the paladin or the rogue or even the core fighter.

That said, the slayer hybrid class seems to go the other way. I don't know if it's too much rogue/assassin for my taste or what. I think the feature that appeals to me most is the studied target feature, which could do a lot to remedy the ranger's situational-ness. How/could I somehow combine or mash-up the two to make a less-roguish, more-ranger slayer. Again, I am not interested in spells (those are for the casters) or really sneak attack (for the rogues). I just want a warrior with Maybe a little wilderness and some combat ability outside or the favored enemy/s. Basically Aragorn.

Is multi-classing an option?

[paladinn]

Is multi-classing an option?

Rather not. I'm at least some of this would be homebrew.

[Maat Mons]

Ranger is a class I keep wanting to like, but never really can.

You could take Ranger with the Blood Hunter Archetype to trade Favored Enemy and spellcasting for what is essentially Studied Target. The Fortune Finder archetype keeps both Favored Enemy and spellcasting, but also gets an ability that is essentially Studied Target, except the ability to use it as a swift action comes later. The Ilsurian Archer (Divine Marsman) archetype keeps Favored Enemy, but loses spellcasting, and gives bonuses of the same magnitude as Studied Target, except constantly active, and only usable with a bow. If you haven’t traded out spellcasting, a wand of Instant Enemy could be helpful to a Ranger. Oddly, the Nirmathi Irregular (Woodland Skirmisher) archetype makes the Instant Enemy spell better by removing your minor Favored Enemies. It’s compatible with Fortune Finder.

I think it’s interesting to compare Studied Target with Weapon Training. They both wind up at +5 to attack rolls and +5 damage at level 20. They both technically have limitations on when they apply but are always-on in practice. You never hear of a Fighter beyond level 5 choosing to wield a weapon that his Weapon Training bonus doesn’t apply to. And you never hear of a Slayer beyond level 7 choosing not to spend a swift action to get his bonuses. Kind of makes the limitations feel like extra complexity without any corresponding improvement to game balance.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Rangers are great...if you take the Fortune Finder and Nirmathi Irregular together. Better spellcasting and the ability to apply half your Favored Enemy bonus to anything fixes their main weaknesses and you still get full scaling on one enemy/terrain combo for Instant Enemy

[paladinn]

I guess I'm thinking of replacing Quarry with Instant Enemy. That should be a pretty good Ranger buff. Especially with Favored Defense.

So Favored Enemy would be always-on, but IE would be limited uses/day

[Raven777]

For the Aragorn vibe, is the classic sword-and-bow switch hitter build still the ranger "meta"?

[Maat Mons]

If we’re talking about homebrew fixes for Ranger, I have some thoughts.

Favored Enemy: There are several archetypes that essentially give you Studied Target, but word it as “half your highest Favored Emeny bonus.” I’d be inclined to reverse this, give Studied Target, and let a Ranger double the bonuses against Favored Enemies. I’d also be inclined to make Favored Enemy an option rather than a standard part of the progression. If Ranger had something akin to Slayer’s Talents, making Favored Enemy a Talent that can be taken multiple times could work.

Quarry: I’m confused by the bit that says you can take 10 while tracking at full speed. As far as I can tell, you can do that anyway, unless you’re trying to track in combat or something. Maybe you could just get the ability to always take 10 on Survival checks. I don’t know how many Survival checks wouldn’t already meet the requirements for taking 10, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to give such an ability. But don’t make it part of Quarry. And it applies all the time, instead of just when tracking specific people. As for Quarry itself, I feel like they could have just given a more generic crit-related benefit, and maybe had it be active against all Studied Targets, all the time. The +2 on attack rolls part seems to have a lot of overlap with Studied Target and Favored Enemy.

Instant Enemy: I suppose this could be a class feature instead of a spell. If you take my suggestion earlier about having Favored Enemy just double Studied Target bonuses, Instant Enemy could just give you an extra Favored enemy for the duration of combat.

Endurance: Definitely get rid of this. Not just from the class, but also from the system as a whole. I’m not sure what you should replace it with.

Combat Style: I’m not sure what to do here. It’s supposed to save you from taking those lame tax feats, like Point Blank Shot, but it kind of doesn’t. But if a 3rd-level Ranger wants both Precise Shot and Rapid Shot, which seem likely, he’ll have to use a general feat on one of them. And the general feat won’t gain the benefit of ignoring prerequisites, so he’ll have to take Point Blank Shot anyway, unless he wants to wait until 6th level to get whichever feat he didn’t take at 2nd level.

[paladinn]

So here's my thought:

At L1, a ranger selects a primary favored enemy. Traditionally this was the “giant class” which was composed of both actual giants and humanoids. That can be changed based on campaign flavor. S/he receives a damage bonus equal to his/her ranger level against this enemy. This was a ranger ability from the class’ intro.

Every 5 levels (L5, 10, 15 and 20), a ranger received two upgrades. First, s/he receives a +2 cumulative to hit and AC against the favored enemy. Second, s/he can apply the attack, damage and AC bonus to any one individual one time per day (two at L10, three at L15, four at L20). So at L20, the ranger has a +20 to damage against his/her favored enemy, and a +8 to hit and AC; and can unleash all of that four times a day against individual foes of choice.

Thoughts?

[Eldonauran]

Not to be much a naysayer here, but I don't think the Ranger needs any help. They don't need to excel at every single combat session of the game and they certainly don't need many attack or damage boosts then they already have access to. If they pick up a bow and devote half of their feats to archery, they can melt enemies with ranged attacks. If they pick a combat style for archery, they don't even need to invest as many feats to do it. You just need Manyshot and Clustered Shots, and you can get at least one of them absent their prerequisites with your combat style.

Their Hunter's Bond can even turn them into a force multiplier by sharing half their favored enemy bonus with all their allies. I'm wondering what kind of gameplay the Ranger is being compared against in order to come to the conclusion it needs help.