My Party Needs Help

[SleepyShadow]

Hello fine people, I need your help with something. My group is starting a new campaign in a couple of weeks, and it will be the first time in a long time when I am not the DM. We've also got two relatively new players in the group, so I want to make sure they get to play what they wanted. Thus, I opted to build a character last so I could just fill in whatever the party needed. However, I'm stumped by the team composition. Here's what the party consists of so far:


Spellscale Sorcerer; new player, picking a bunch of dragon-themed spells and feats.
Elan Psion; focusing on telekinesis effects.
Shifter Warblade; new player, thinks tiger claw maneuvers look sweet.
Azurin Soulborn; using lifebond vestments and a soulspark familiar to heal people very slowly.


I'm at a loss for how to round out this party. We have three strikers and a healer who only functions out of combat. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

[Cygnia]

Is the campaign starting at first level?

[Wintermoot]

I mean, if all else fails, go battlefield control or buffer in order to make your compatriots even better. So Druid or Bard maybe? Then concentrate your build on setting up others for them to take down or making them better at what they do.

I'd go Druid I think. Your animal companion can be a flank buddy for the Shifter while you use BFC spells (entangle, obscuring mists, stone spikes, etc) in order to build strike zones for your Sorcerer and TK strikers.

Depending on the spell list and skills your sorcerer picks, I might take bard if you need better coverage of arcane spells than what he provides. Bard is always good for making the rest of the party better anyway.

And if none of that floats your boat, I'd take a front line warrior (barbarian or paladin maybe) and team up with the shifter who is going to be underpowered most likely (edit. Sorry, I see that he's a warblade, so he won't be underpowered. For some reason I had the pathfinder shifter class in my head, which is vastly underpowered) and seems to be the sole melee-er in your bunch right now.

[Kapow]

To me, this looks like Bard would be a good addition.

Secondary healing, skills and buffs

[SleepyShadow]

Is the campaign starting at first level?

Starting at 3rd level, and it's set in Eberron. We're playing through Rappan Athuk if that helps at all.

[Inevitability]

LN Cleric of Kurtulmak with the kobold (http://rpg.nobl.ca/archive.php?x=dnd/we/20060420a) + trickery domains, to act as secondary skillmonkey, okay face, okay in-combat healer, in addition to serving as a primary divine caster.

You can go Cloistered for more skill points, but that does leave your party with 3 lightly armored primary casters and only 2 frontliners, so maybe grab some summon spells if that's the route you choose to go. Malconvoker isn't the worst choice for a summoner cleric and has amusing fluff implications. As an alternate path for turning spells into muscle, you could become a necromancer: Bone Knight gets you heavy armor proficiency back and gives various useful undead-boosting features in addition to 9/10 casting advancement.

edit: Seeing this is in eberron, ask your DM about the kobold domain. Eberron kobolds worship the progenitor wyrms directly (https://web.archive.org/web/20210920212541/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a), and no domains have been given for those, so ask your DM if the above build still works. At any rate, this relaxes some of the alignment issues and hopefully lets you be comfortably good-aligned, if the party swings that way. Maybe you can even pick the domain without being a kobold yourself, which lets you have much better stats.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Don't fret it too much. Even if the party composition is horrible the DM should be able to work around it a bit.

That said, a front liner with healing sounds like the most "optimal" addition*. A druid (either summons or wildshape or animal companion for the front lining), paladin or even a ranger with healing. A barbarian or fighter at least has some self buffing/healing to soak up the damage. A bard or cleric could try to substitute battlefield control for front lining. Any of those should work to some degree.

*=To me, but I'm not known as a great optimizer.

[Amidus Drexel]

Crusader could be fun here; it gives you easy access to some in-combat healing (if you're concerned about that), as well as someone to take hits for your otherwise very fragile party. You overlap a little with the warblade, but that can be quite powerful if the two of you coordinate your maneuver selection (lots of White Raven can mean a lot of extra actions for your party).

Factotum might also be interesting, if you like playing generalists, though they're also a little squishy.

I don't particularly like bard for this party composition (it's already a very squishy party), especially at low level. Druid fits well, though; you get extra healing, more melee power, and reasonable battlefield control abilities (between animal companion and spells like entangle).

[Zarvistic]

I'd play Beguiler in this. For what it adds to the party but also to match power level.

[Inevitability]

I'd play Beguiler in this. For what it adds to the party but also to match power level.

Eh, playing a cleric or druid at the T3-compatible level isn't too hard. Don't trivialize stuff with Planar Ally and similar spells, focus on buffs and heals over encounter-enders, leave other PCs to their niches, don't go dweomerkeeper or planar shepherd.

[pabelfly]

If you haven't made a character yet, just play what you want. The group I currently DM doesn't have a healer, and it's amazing how many extra potions they find while adventuring. It's easy for a DM to make changes to suit non-optimal party composition.

That said, if I legitimately wanted to pick a character option to suit the rest of the party, I'd consider a Cleric to be a good choice. More direct healing support wouldn't go astray, and buffers work better on larger parties where more people get their benefit. If you don't want to buff, you can pick options to give yourself blasting instead.

[Cygnia]

Besides, you never know when a GM will get cute and start throwing in incorporeal undead to bug the party...

[Biggus]

If in doubt, play a Bard or Cleric, they're a highly useful addition to any party. I haven't played Rappan Athuk but from what little I know of it a Cleric would probably be better in this case.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that a good or neutral (Cloistered (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric)) Cleric with the Kobold domain and probably Trickery or Pact as your second domain is a great choice. If you can find an excuse to include the Whispered Secrets feat, all the better. You can use Guidance of the Avatar (https://web.archive.org/web/20171028122100/https://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) as needed for traps and similar. Choose to channel positive energy so you can spontaneously heal as needed, stay single-classed and pick up a few items that make your turn undead stronger just in case. If you take Divine Metamagic: Persistent, use it for party-buffing spells like Mass Lesser Vigor and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and Elation if you're good-aligned.

[SleepyShadow]

Do you think a cleric/rogue with the Sacred Outlaw feat would be a good idea?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do you think a cleric/rogue with the Sacred Outlaw feat would be a good idea?

The Kobold domain gives trapfinding, so you don't really need to multiclass it to accomplish everything that role needs. If you do go that route, I'd take one level each of Spellthief and Psychic Rogue (https://web.archive.org/web/20210729143628/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) to get the 2d6 sneak attack for Sacred Outlaw. One level of Spellthief lets you use wands of any Wizard spell of a school they get access to, namely Wraithstrike. One level of Psychic Rogue lets you use dorjes (psionic wands) of any powers on their power list, namely Chameleon (which is a 1st level power on some lists, so buy it on a 1st level dorje). You would also have sneak attack as a Rogue of your Cleric level, plus the 2d6 from those. You could also get Sacred Outlaw at 3rd level, and have 3d6 sneak attack at that level, but no BAB.

[Quentinas]

While cleric with kobold domain would be good, maybe it's a bit too much for that party even if it's around T3. I will say that maybe a factotum that has a little higher wisdom for more opportunistic piety? Maybe multiclassing in chameleon so you are covered for anything that could be useful while not taking away too much spotlight especially from the new players? It would be the skillmonkey trapfinder that is missing in that group. As you're starting at level 3 that soulborn took two time the shape soulmeld feat? I hope he took at least sapphire smite...

[Pugwampy]

A healer proactively healing players during a battle is the best thing you can do to support your party .

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A healer proactively healing players during a battle is the best thing you can do to support your party .

Well, no, crowd-controlling the opponents and buffing the party so healing isn't needed is the best support. You'll generally never be able to out-heal the enemies' damage, especially considering you'll run out of spell slots but they can just keep swinging their clubs forever. Making sure the enemies can't (effectively) attack with crowd controls effects and defensive buffs, and making sure the enemies get fewer opportunities to attack before they die with offensive buffs to the party, is generally always going to be a more efficient use of spell slots.

[Pugwampy]

Well, no, crowd-controlling the opponents and buffing the party so healing isn't needed is the best support. You'll generally never be able to out-heal the enemies' damage, especially considering you'll run out of spell slots but they can just keep swinging their clubs forever. Making sure the enemies can't (effectively) attack with crowd controls effects and defensive buffs, and making sure the enemies get fewer opportunities to attack before they die with offensive buffs to the party, is generally always going to be a more efficient use of spell slots.


Average 3.5 cleric , yes i agree . Regardless a subpar cure spell can give a fighter an extra 1 or 2 rounds before he needs to run for his life .

A pathfinder cleric,s channel energy is a massive boost of hp for everyone .

Then there is specialist healers and one or two prestige classes . I have played a Healing Hand prestige class in 3.5 and a priest in pathfinder . Broken overpowered heals do exist .

[SleepyShadow]

While cleric with kobold domain would be good, maybe it's a bit too much for that party even if it's around T3. I will say that maybe a factotum that has a little higher wisdom for more opportunistic piety? Maybe multiclassing in chameleon so you are covered for anything that could be useful while not taking away too much spotlight especially from the new players? It would be the skillmonkey trapfinder that is missing in that group. As you're starting at level 3 that soulborn took two time the shape soulmeld feat? I hope he took at least sapphire smite...

As far as I know, the soulborn's only meldshapes are soulspark familiar and lifebond vestment.

I got the green light from the DM to use the Nightstalker class from Dragonlance. It fulfills the role of trapfinder well enough and has backup healing in a pinch.

[rel]

How about a wizard.
Shift the odds in combat and keep the party safe, or at least let them withdraw and heal using CC.
Provide utility magic and knowledge checks to help out of combat.
Hang around smoking your pipe and looking stylish in your big pointy hat.

[Pugwampy]

Is the Shifter Warblade a tank ? You said 3 strikers which translates as rogue type to me .

If not how about a nice Half orc or Dwarf , Barbarian . When in trouble put a dwarf infront :smallsmile:

[Bonzai]

I see two niches that could use filling. A buffer to amp up all the melee, and a skill monkey/stealth/trap finder. Bard is a good choice. Cleric and druid are also great options.

Ultimately it won't matter. 3rd Edition is fluid enough that you aren't locked into traditional roles.