Wake up, Babe, they just put a setting agnostic Mizzium Apparatus in the game.

[prototype00]

You’ll forgive me for copy pasting, but I had all my thoughts typed out in another forum:

So the feat Cartomancer from The Book of Many Things says the following:


Prerequisite: 4th Level, Spellcasting Feature

You learn to channel your magic through a deck of cards. You can use a card deck as your spellcasting focus, and you gain the following benefits:

Card Tricks. You learn the Prestidigitation cantrip and can use it to create illusions that duplicate the effects of stage magic. When you use Prestidigitation in this way, you can conceal the verbal and somatic components of the spell as ordinary conversation and card handling.

Hidden Ace. When you finish a long rest, you can choose one of your class’s spell list and imbue that spell into a card. The chosen spell must have a casting time of 1 action and it must be a level for which you have spell slots. The card remains imbued with this spell for 8 hours. While the card is imbued with the spell, you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within. The card then immediately loses its magic.

Card Tricks is cute. It extends the ability of Prestidigitation to stage magic effects. Pull doves out of your top hat! Pretend to saw people in half!

Hidden Ace is potentially bonkers. Basically it's a quickened spell that you prep in advanced, but according to the RAW text:

1. There was some discussion whether doing this would take a spell slot or is it a bonus spell slot per day (reddit consensus seems to be that it costs a spell slot as you cast it as per normal per the wording and this isn't a magical item which has it's own provisions).

2. You don't have to know the spell. It just has to be on your class list somewhere. This is potentially pretty good for Sorcerers as the spells known on the class is limited.

3. Potentially bonkers. Since it does not specify that you have to know the spell, just specifically that it is on your class list and you have a spell slot of the level to cast it, multiclass characters potentially benefit quite a bit. Imagine a Tempest Cleric 2/ Clockwork Sorcerer 15. For 1, this feat would let you cast a 9th level sorcerer spell that you don't even have to know. For 2, it would also allow you to cast, if you like instead, a 9th level cleric spell (say, Mass Heal), since you have a 9th level spell slot and Mass Heal is on your Cleric class list.

Edit: UA was apparently quite limited compared to this, the spell had to be in line with your Proficiency Bonus, but they took off the limiters for the print version. If you want to see a magic item with a similar effect, the Mizzium Apparatus also allowed you to overcast on multiclass spell list, but this isn't dependent on the magic item generosity of your DM.

Edit: Sorcadin! You could actually cast Wish on a Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 14 Sorcadin with this feat.

Edit the second: Just realized for a feat you can bypass the major part of the drawback for some of the the “dip two levels” multiclass builds. Neat.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not only that, but if you're something like a Warlock 2/ Bard 3/ Sorcerer 15, you could pick a high-level spell from the Warlock or Bard spell list to cast with that.

It's got absolutely terrible wording, it's way too ambiguous. There's quite a discussion about it going on over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/17y4und).

[prototype00]

Not only that, but if you're something like a Warlock 2/ Bard 3/ Sorcerer 15, you could pick a high-level spell from the Warlock or Bard spell list to cast with that.

It's got absolutely terrible wording, it's way too ambiguous. There's quite a discussion about it going on over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/17y4und).

Bard yes, but unfortunately with all it's dark and edgy alternate naming for it's spellcasting (Pact Magic, Mystic Arcana) Warlock doesn't qualify for any of the benefits.

[Rukelnikov]

Bard yes, but unfortunately with all it's dark and edgy alternate naming for it's spellcasting (Pact Magic, Mystic Arcana) Warlock doesn't qualify for any of the benefits.

Warlock does qualify, it has a spell list, and it has 9th level slots from the other classes, those are the only requirements.

[prototype00]

Warlock does qualify, it has a spell list, and it has 9th level slots from the other classes, those are the only requirements.

You seem to be correct. Warlock just can't qualify for the feat with it's spellcasting, and it's spell slots, because they are pact magic, don't qualify to stack to increase the availability of the higher level spell slots required for the higher level spells (4th level warlock does not stack with 6th level Cleric to increase spell slot progression to get you 5th level spell slots, for example).

There is significant anti-synergy for the Warlock with the Cartomancer feat, is the general takeaway I got.

[Amechra]

The funny thing is the UA version was both more and less limited, since it had to be a spell you knew, but it didn't have a duration — you could, by RAW, stock up a bunch of cards given enough downtime.

It just baffles me, though, that a feat that effectively gives you an extra spell slot of the highest level you can cast with upsides saw print. I suspect that it involved someone cashing in a favor...

[prototype00]

The funny thing is the UA version was both more and less limited, since it had to be a spell you knew, but it didn't have a duration — you could, by RAW, stock up a bunch of cards given enough downtime.


Wasn't the level of spell available also limited by Proficiency Bonus? That's quite a harsh limit compared to the current iteration.

[Rukelnikov]

The funny thing is the UA version was both more and less limited, since it had to be a spell you knew, but it didn't have a duration — you could, by RAW, stock up a bunch of cards given enough downtime.

It just baffles me, though, that a feat that effectively gives you an extra spell slot of the highest level you can cast with upsides saw print. I suspect that it involved someone cashing in a favor...

The feat is quite good, but from my reading it doesn't grant an extra spell slot. The wording could have been better though.

It says "you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within", casting the spell normally requires a spell slot and at no point does the feat say you don't spend the slot for this casting. With that it would be extremely powerful, especially once 6th level spells and above come into the picture.

[OvisCaedo]

If the spell is IN the card, shouldn't the spell slot be used when you make the card? If it actually costs a spell slot, which it really probably should. Also, the 8 hour duration seems kind of silly. A long rest is 8 hours, you have 16 hours between them, and if you don't use the card in the first half of that day it's just gone? And as written it sounds like you MUST make it as soon as the long rest ends, if you choose to do so.

It was a really poorly written feat in the UA, and... still seems to be poorly written, despite being changed. I think they overcorrected the duration, and left other parts ambiguous

[Psyren]

Warlock does qualify, it has a spell list, and it has 9th level slots from the other classes, those are the only requirements.

You specifically need the Spellcasting feature, which Warlock doesn't have. Warlocks cast spells, but the feature they use to do so is different (Pact Magic).

[Rukelnikov]

You specifically need the Spellcasting feature, which Warlock doesn't have. Warlocks cast spells, but the feature they use to do so is different (Pact Magic).

We were talking about poaching spells from other lists, every other spellcaster has the spellcasting feature, so X + warlock would have the spellcasting feature.

[prototype00]

If the spell is IN the card, shouldn't the spell slot be used when you make the card? If it actually costs a spell slot, which it really probably should. Also, the 8 hour duration seems kind of silly. A long rest is 8 hours, you have 16 hours between them, and if you don't use the card in the first half of that day it's just gone? And as written it sounds like you MUST make it as soon as the long rest ends, if you choose to do so.

It was a really poorly written feat in the UA, and... still seems to be poorly written, despite being changed. I think they overcorrected the duration, and left other parts ambiguous

So, based on Reddit consensus (which is still evolving) which somewhat tallies with my reading of the RAW, you only "cast" the spell when you flourish the card.

Before that what you are doing is basically indicating "This card represents X spell".

So you keep the spell slot until you cast the spell (which expends the spell slot), which means you don't have to bind up your spell slot with this card all day and can use it for something else if you prefer (especially since there is no mention of such limitations in the text of the feat itself.)

TLDR: The simplest read.

1. Decide after a long rest what spell you want to cast as a quickened action up to your highest spell slot. You don't have to know this spell, it just has to be on one of your class lists.

2. When you want to cast the spell indicated by the card, flourish the card as a bonus action to cast the spell. Since it doesn't specify any other changes, any casting requirements (VSM, line of sight, e.t.c.) stay the same, only the action taken to cast the spell changes to bonus action.

Edit: I know that there might be some mixed feelings about the feat, but for me it presents an interesting choice when multiclassing. Namely, would you give up an ASI to completely ignore an up to two level penalty to your spellcasting (Cartomancer basically lets you access your highest spell level of spells in line with a straight class character as compared to a multiclass character with two dipped levels, all other things being equal).

[Skrum]

I think this feat is pretty broken IF it can grab any spell from your list. Like not only does this massively minimize the entire "drawback" of knowing limited spells, it makes spellcasting multiclassing even less painful (when it already stacks more than extra attack does). Why does WotC continue to do this??? I feel like the game is bending more and more towards there being "real" classes, and they can all cast spells and do basically anything they want, and then a few "legacy" classes that aren't full classes but are just there b/c they're a cherished, recognized part of the game. Just make fighters, rogues, and barbs NPC classes and be done with it.

But - if that is changed to be "spell you know," this feat seems fine.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I think this feat is pretty broken IF it can grab any spell from your list. Like not only does this massively minimize the entire "drawback" of knowing limited spells, it makes spellcasting multiclassing even less painful (when it already stacks more than extra attack does). Why does WotC continue to do this??? I feel like the game is bending more and more towards there being "real" classes, and they can all cast spells and do basically anything they want, and then a few "legacy" classes that aren't full classes but are just there b/c they're a cherished, recognized part of the game. Just make fighters, rogues, and barbs NPC classes and be done with it.

But - if that is changed to be "spell you know," this feat seems fine.

I agree with all of this. And this attitude from WotC is a large part of why I have no interest in buying new WotC books of any kind.

[tokek]

It’s really not mizzium apparatus. It’s limitations are far more severe

Firstly it’s one spell per day maximum

You have to pre-decide the spell. Better hope you choose a good one

It’s strictly limited to spells that take one action

It only lasts 8 hours - in a long adventuring day that puts you against the clock if you want to use it in some climactic battle

It’s very good for some use cases. If you have a spell that hugely buffs your attacks then this is a solid gold feat. But it’s not anything like as powerful as mizzium apparatus

[Amnestic]

For single class casters (especially bards+sorcs) it's kinda neat and pretty good but not particularly obscene.

For multiclass, it's pretty silly.

Multiclass rules causing shenanigans once again. Classic 5e. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[tokek]

For single class casters (especially bards+sorcs) it's kinda neat and pretty good but not particularly obscene.

For multiclass, it's pretty silly.

Multiclass rules causing shenanigans once again. Classic 5e. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Even for multi-class its one spell per day and only if you decide it in advance

Unlike Mizzium Apparatus which is all your spells so long as you can make Arcana checks - and you will grab expertise in Arcana if you can.

Its a good feat but I really can't see it as game breaking in any way.

[Skrum]

Even for multi-class its one spell per day and only if you decide it in advance

Unlike Mizzium Apparatus which is all your spells so long as you can make Arcana checks - and you will grab expertise in Arcana if you can.

Its a good feat but I really can't see it as game breaking in any way.

A tempest cleric 2 sorcerer 9 can cast heal once per 8 hours, as a bonus action.

A full caster can dip ranger or paladin 1 and gain access to 4th and 5th level ranger and paladin-only spells at character level 8 and 10, respectively. This is especially attractive with paladin, as they can pick up heavy armor prof at the same time

Dipping a single level in any spell casting class gives a character access to that entire spell list. Yes it's only 1 spell, but it seriously breaks down the idea of even having spell lists.

[Lalliman]

It's unforgivable that in the year 2023, Wizards is still publishing material that requires a close analysis of the rules to understand its basic functionality. 5e was supposed to be the edition where the rules are written in plain English. It's understandable that they got that wrong at first because they were constructing a whole game system. But all they had to do here was add a few more words specifying whether Hidden Ace consumes a spell slot. Come on, man.

[tokek]

A tempest cleric 2 sorcerer 9 can cast heal once per 8 hours, as a bonus action.

A full caster can dip ranger or paladin 1 and gain access to 4th and 5th level ranger and paladin-only spells at character level 8 and 10, respectively. This is especially attractive with paladin, as they can pick up heavy armor prof at the same time

Dipping a single level in any spell casting class gives a character access to that entire spell list. Yes it's only 1 spell, but it seriously breaks down the idea of even having spell lists.

I'm not sure what spell you are grabbing from Paladin or Ranger that makes that much difference. Paladins tend to have Smite spells (already BA so not eligible) and Steed spells (10 minute cast so not eligible). All the decent Ranger specialist ones that I ever used are BA as well. I'm not saying there is nothing there, but it does feel like not much off the top of my head.

I mean sure your cleric/sorcerer has the option of a Heal if the situation comes up within 8 hours. That's neat. If they don't use their spell slot for a control spell to avoid needing the heal in the first place.

I suspect that there is more actual power in picking something basic like Greater Invisibility and then have your gish slice them up on the same turn. Or polymorph and still have your action to pound them hard with your new animal form.

I see the utility of this on a multi-class but I discussed this on the server I help run and was persuaded that its really not going to break the game.

[Skrum]

I'm not sure what spell you are grabbing from Paladin or Ranger that makes that much difference. Paladins tend to have Smite spells (already BA so not eligible) and Steed spells (10 minute cast so not eligible). All the decent Ranger specialist ones that I ever used are BA as well. I'm not saying there is nothing there, but it does feel like not much off the top of my head.

I mean sure your cleric/sorcerer has the option of a Heal if the situation comes up within 8 hours. That's neat. If they don't use their spell slot for a control spell to avoid needing the heal in the first place.

I suspect that there is more actual power in picking something basic like Greater Invisibility and then have your gish slice them up on the same turn. Or polymorph and still have your action to pound them hard with your new animal form.

I see the utility of this on a multi-class but I discussed this on the server I help run and was persuaded that its really not going to break the game.

OK good point; I forgot about the casting time limitation.

Still, conjure barrage at character level 6?
Conjure Volley?
Shadow of Moil?

Just so we're talking about the same thing, I'm not making the case that this feat is literally game-breaking all by itself. But it absolutely adds to an already bad facet of 5e where classes with spells have less and less and less restrictions on what they're allowed to do. The idea of spell lists, class restrictions, or trade-offs are becoming more and more of a suggestion rather than an actual balancing factor.

[Rukelnikov]

I think people are inflating this feat a bit. Yes it allows you to poach a spell from another list but it requires a full feat and at least a level in another class (which for the highest return means raising stats in order to be eligible for MC), and all that for a once per day spell that you have to choose beforehand and its limited to one action only spells.

Consider getting it at Cleric 4, sure you can dip Wiz at Clvl 5 and throw a fireball or Hypnotic Pattern as a Cleric, but what are you doing with your other 3rd lvl slot? Upcasting something, which is generally worse than using a higher level spell, is that really better than raising your Wisdom by 2? I don't think it is in most builds at this point.

It becomes better at lvl 8, you can dip the poaching class at Clvl 9 and spend your only 5th slot in something from that class, by Clvl 10 you already have a 5th lvl spells from your main class, and every time you'd be "1 spell level behind" you will use the feat to prepare one. Still you may be better of capping casting stat here and getting the feat at 12th lvl.

Its kind of a capstone feat IMO, it doesn't weave into your characters routine, so most likely you'll wanna get it after capping your casting stat and getting the enabling feats for the build.

[tokek]

OK good point; I forgot about the casting time limitation.

Still, conjure barrage at character level 6?
Conjure Volley?
Shadow of Moil?

Just so we're talking about the same thing, I'm not making the case that this feat is literally game-breaking all by itself. But it absolutely adds to an already bad facet of 5e where classes with spells have less and less and less restrictions on what they're allowed to do. The idea of spell lists, class restrictions, or trade-offs are becoming more and more of a suggestion rather than an actual balancing factor.

I would not be taking the blaster spells from Ranger - I'm not sure which class actually has inferior blasting spells that would want them? Cleric maybe?

Shadow of Moil? Actually yes, sure. But its not so much better than Greater Invisibility that it makes much difference.

This is really how our discussion went - and we couldn't actually find the game-breaker. Or at least not below 9th levels spells when the game is broken anyway so its no real loss.

[Skrum]

TCL cleric 1 wiz X. Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14. Take fey touched at 1st, boosting Int to 18. Heavy armor prof (which you'll be slow with until you can find mithril plate). At 4th boost Int to 20. Take this feat at 8th.

You loose 1 level of spell casting progression for shields, armor, and the entire cleric spell list. Yes it's only 1 spell/LR, but the cleric spell list is kinda good, and a wizard being able to stack all the defensive powers of a wizard with cleric stuff is pretty ridiculous. Spells like revivify, death ward, circle of power, and heal can swing entire encounters. And now there's another character, a wizard no less, that has access to them.

Is this broken-broken? No, I'm not gonna die on that hill. But it's potentially really, really good. Easily one of the best feat options once a character's main stat is capped.

[Psyren]

We were talking about poaching spells from other lists, every other spellcaster has the spellcasting feature, so X + warlock would have the spellcasting feature.

Ah - when you said "warlock does qualify" I thought you meant the warlock class itself could qualify.



You have to pre-decide the spell. Better hope you choose a good one


You can change it on a long rest though - you're no worse off than any other LR-prepared caster, and better off than the level-up prepared ones.

[LudicSavant]

I'll be honest, it's not feeling like the best time to be a D&D fan right now. The release of options is so slow, and yet this is the quality for what comes out?

[prototype00]

TCL cleric 1 wiz X. Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14. Take fey touched at 1st, boosting Int to 18. Heavy armor prof (which you'll be slow with until you can find mithril plate). At 4th boost Int to 20. Take this feat at 8th..

By the by, the moment Book of many things is legal in AL and if the feat doesn’t change too much I’m going to do just this as my Tempest Cleric 2/ Sorcerer X blaster (maybe I’ll take Cartomancer at Sorc 4 to get early max damage Thunderball).

So thanks for the inspiration!

[stoutstien]

Not even the worse item in the splat TBH.

[prototype00]

Quite apart from the spell poaching, it should also be noted that you can apply metamagic to Hidden Ace's bonus action cast spell, as what is making it a bonus action cast is not metamagic.

[KorvinStarmast]

It just baffles me, though, that a feat that effectively gives you an extra spell slot of the highest level you can cast with upsides saw print. I suspect that it involved someone cashing in a favor... It ought to give you a spell slot equal to your proficiency bonus. But WotC is grandma giving her grandkids candy, and not having to deal with the sugar high that the parents (DM) have to deal with later.

We were talking about poaching spells from other lists, every other spellcaster has the spellcasting feature, so X + warlock would have the spellcasting feature. And they even have a spellcasting ability score: Charisma.

It's unforgivable that in the year 2023, Wizards is still publishing material that requires a close analysis of the rules to understand its basic functionality. 5e was supposed to be the edition where the rules are written in plain English. It's understandable that they got that wrong at first because they were constructing a whole game system. But all they had to do here was add a few more words specifying whether Hidden Ace consumes a spell slot. Lazy. Maybe the let go of the wrong bunch of folks when the 'post release' firing spree happened.

I'll be honest, it's not feeling like the best time to be a D&D fan right now. The release of options is so slow, and yet this is the quality for what comes out? They are mailing it in. They have been since the 'lack-of-editing-and-balancing-effort known-as-Tasha's' came out.

[Psyren]

The funny thing is the UA version was both more and less limited, since it had to be a spell you knew, but it didn't have a duration — you could, by RAW, stock up a bunch of cards given enough downtime.

It just baffles me, though, that a feat that effectively gives you an extra spell slot of the highest level you can cast with upsides saw print. I suspect that it involved someone cashing in a favor...

It doesn't give an extra slot; it's an extra preparation with a free quicken. The feat doesn't say anything about casting without a spell slot, so you'd still use one of the necessary level.

[t209]

So I guess someone is into Gambit from X-Men due to Cartomancer kinda having that theme.

[Monster Manuel]

So, if we took the absolute most restrictive read of the feat possible (not suggesting this is actually how it's meant to be interpreted, but bear with me), would it still be a viable feat compared to existing ones?

You imbue a card with a one-action spell that is on your list (but not necessarily one that you know or have prepared) and "you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and cast the spell within" What if the RAI was that the bonus action was to flourish the card, but that the casting is not included in that bonus action? Basically, you use your bonus action to activate the imbued card, which then allows you to spend your regular action to cast it normally. The intent of the feat, in that case, is that you can designate any spell on your list, and then at some point in the next 8 hours you can use a bonus action to allow you to cast that otherwise-unavailable spell.

If that were the case, the feat should have been worded differently to reflect that. Something like "you can use a bonus action to flourish the card and activate the imbued power. Until your next turn, you can cast the imbued spell as if it were Known or Prepared". But let's say that was what they intended: pick any one spell on your list and you can use up a bonus action to treat it as Prepared once in the next 8 hours. No extra spell slot, no free Quicken, essentially just an extra spell known, that you can change out every day.

Along with the ability to use a deck of cards as a spellcasting focus, and to hide somatic and verbal components behind apparent card tricks, would this still be a viable feat? It's no must-have, but is it better than, say, Keen Mind? Or Lightly Armored? You could add a spell to your list with Magic Initiate or etc, but that locks you down to one, while this gives you flexibility.

Ultimately, I think it's still more or less viable, even when reduced to this extent. Super niche, on the lower end of viability, but viable.

I see a Sage Advice correction/clarification in the near future for this one...

[prototype00]

So, if we took the absolute most restrictive read of the feat possible (not suggesting this is actually how it's meant to be interpreted, but bear with me), would it still be a viable feat…

Ultimately, I think it's still more or less viable, even when reduced to this extent. Super niche, on the lower end of viability..

So you solicited opinion here:

If you put all these unstipulated conditions on this feat, you would nerf it way past the point of “viability” to a juncture where people would be idiots for taking it over boosting their main stat. (Which is the bare minimum a feat should be giving what it is replacing, you’ll note that the other supposedly sub par feats that you are mentioning, Keen Mind, Lightly Armored, at least have the fig leaf of also being half feats, which Cartomamcer is not.)

As others have said, even with the RAW interpretation of this feat giving you an exciting use of a bonus action and one spell per day you might not normally be able to cast (something a lot of feats already do) you will still probably want to max your casting stat before you take it.

[Blatant Beast]

So you solicited opinion here:
If you put all these unstipulated conditions on this feat, you would nerf it way past the point of “viability” to a juncture where people would be idiots for taking it over boosting their main stat.

I disagree. Firstly, I can not think of an ability in 5e that allows you to cast a spell that typically costs an action as a Bonus Action, outside of Ravnica options.

Even if the ability is intended to be a literal Ace up your sleeve, and only allows you to keep a particular spell in reserve, without the need to prepare it…….
…. and casting this strategically reserved spell has a cost of using your B/A to Flourish and Action to Cast the Spell; I still do not find that qualifies as Feat that was “nerfed beyond usefulness”.

I find that Feat is just damn useful.

There are plenty of times, in which a spellcaster would like to prepare just one more spell, but can’t. With this Feat, now you can in essence Prepare that one spell you really wanted to.

A Sorcadin with a non-prepared, normally unusable, Word of Recall seems downright strong as hell if it saves the party’s proverbial bacon from death, (or worse), even if the cost to Cast the Word of Recall expends one’s Bonus Action with the Action to Cast.

Dead People don’t have Bonus Actions, and greed kills. Politely, wanting the feat to substitute the Cast a Spell Action for a Bonus Action instead, might be a bit greedy, design-wise.

P.P. Has the right of it, though, if the Devs are going to be adding new features that breaks new design space, then the language should be ironclad clear about this. There should be examples, to make comprehension easier.

Even worse, presuming the Quote is accurate, is the language used is somewhat awkward to reconcile with 1D&D’s ‘Magic Action’ Option.

[prototype00]

I disagree. Firstly, I can not think of an ability in 5e that allows you to cast a spell that typically costs an action as a Bonus Action, outside of Ravnica options.

Quicken Spell.

It's basically an ability every sorcerer or anyone who takes the metamagic adept feat gets. Other people on reddit have also noted that if that was all this feat had going for it, Metamagic Adept is way more adaptable and flexible, not to mention every Sorcerer could do this multiple times per day if they wanted (it only costs 2 sorcery points and isn't spell level dependent, after all).

[Psyren]

Even if all it did was the bonus action though (i.e. no bonus preparation, and no ability to pick a spell from your list that you don't know/can't learn yet) - that would still be beneficial though, because it would still mean you can combine the quickened spell with another metamagic. But to be clear, I do think the two benefits in the parenthetical are rules-legal - the second one is a bit iffy however.

The spell not requiring a spell slot however would be way too powerful. Every full caster at high levels would pick up a feat that can let them get a bonus 9th-level slot (or 8th or 7th.)

[Blatant Beast]

A Sorcerer can Quicken a spell they know.
This feat is not designed to compete with the Quicken spell Metamagic. This Feat competes with Quicken, the bookkeeping program… the Feat allows an off-book spell preparation!

This feat, gives a Sorcerer a free spell scroll of their own choosing, and eliminates the need to spend downtime or gold to scribe it.

The Feat allows any spellcaster to essentially prepare one Extra Emergency spell per day. The Feat strikes me as an easy selection for a T4 spellcaster.

An extra reserve 9th level spell preparation seems valuable to me. Reddit, home of the viewpoint that champions unbound coffee-lock, Darth Siddious Shenanigans, can frankly go suck it. 🤔

[prototype00]

The spell not requiring a spell slot however would be way too powerful. Every full caster at high levels would pick up a feat that can let them get a bonus 9th-level slot (or 8th or 7th.)

I think only the very... attached to the idea of the extra slot few are still discussing that. Most people I've seen have recognized that yeah, it is a spell that is cast in the normal way, except for the time taken, meaning the slot is consumed.

On the usefulness of just a quicken effect being good (which recall Monster Manuel and Blatant Beast aren't even arguing for, they are saying the whole thing takes a bonus action to flourish and and action to cast! Why would anyone take that feat?), agree to disagree. Something being worse Metamagic Adept is not my cup of tea.

[prototype00]

A Sorcerer can Quicken a spell they know.
This feat is not designed to compete with the Quicken spell Metamagic. This Feat competes with Quicken, the bookkeeping program… the Feat allows an off-book spell preparation!

This feat, gives a Sorcerer a free spell scroll of their own choosing, and eliminates the need to spend downtime or gold to scribe it.

The Feat allows any spellcaster to essentially prepare one Extra Emergency spell per day. The Feat strikes me as an easy selection for a T4 spellcaster.

An extra reserve 9th level spell preparation seems valuable to me. Reddit, home of the viewpoint that champions unbound coffee-lock, Darth Siddious Shenanigans, can frankly go suck it. 🤔

Chill, my guy, gal or non binary pal. No one is arguing that it gives you an extra slot to cast with. Literally no one in this thread is advocating for the feat to give you an extra max level slot, not least myself.

Most of the discourse is around the Multiclassing possibilities really. Even the bonus action casting effect is something that, as I demonstrated, is easily duplicated in multiple different ways and not so interesting.

[Psyren]

I think only the very... attached to the idea of the extra slot few are still discussing that. Most people I've seen have recognized that yeah, it is a spell that is cast in the normal way, except for the time taken, meaning the slot is consumed.

Agreed!



On the usefulness of just a quicken effect being good (which recall Monster Manuel and Blatant Beast aren't even arguing for, they are saying the whole thing takes a bonus action and and action to cast! Why would anyone take that feat?), agree to disagree. Something being worse Metamagic adept is not my cup of tea.

Again, I think it's useful enough to be a feat even if all it does is allow for a bonus preparation + autoquicken. If it does those two things + you can prepare a spell from your list that you don't actually know, especially one that you couldn't access yet due to multiclassing delaying your progression, that puts it over the top for me and it becomes a must-have feat on any multiclass caster.

[prototype00]

Again, I think it's useful enough to be a feat even if all it does is allow for a bonus preparation + autoquicken. If it does those two things + you can prepare a spell from your list that you don't actually know, especially one that you couldn't access yet due to multiclassing delaying your progression, that puts it over the top for me and it becomes a must-have feat on any multiclass caster.

I'll completely agree with you there (I don't usually bring crappy feats to the attention of the forum, lol). It is a top tier feat for a Multiclass Caster, and I made no bones about that. Especially if your multiclass includes one of the limited spell list classes like Sorcerer or Bard (and Warlock is anti synergy as I also discussed).

For feat names matching the effect, I have to say that this feat currently by RAW 110% gives you an ace up your sleeve.

[Blatant Beast]

Most of the discourse is around the Multiclassing possibilities really. Even the bonus action casting effect is something that, as I demonstrated, is easily duplicated in multiple different ways and not so interesting.

I am quite chill, just an appeal to Twitter/Reddit requires a response.
A thermonuclear response.😉

The Feat seems fine as a Multiclass spellcaster Quality of Life, Feat. We seem to agree there. It seems a decent option for Bards, as well, given the class’ decent spell list, and limited spells known.

Sorta sad, that one needs a Feat, in order for the Prestidigitation spell to replicate what we commonly would refer to as prestidigitation in the real world.

Finally, Bullwinkle can pull a rabbit out of their hat. (Old people unite! Rocky and Bullwinkle FTW).

[Psyren]

I just ignore the first part of it honestly. If someone had wanted to do inconsequential magic tricks with Prestidigitation before this feat I would have readily said yes, that's exactly the kind of thing it's always been meant for. Or at the very least, grant advantage on the associated Sleight of Hand or Performance check.

[Darth Credence]

Finally, Bullwinkle can pull a rabbit out of their hat. (Old people unite! Rocky and Bullwinkle FTW).

"That trick never works!" I don't recall Bullwinkle ever successfully pulling a rabbit out of a hat! I recall rhinos, lions, bears, and it always ended with Rocky himself, but I thought he was incompetent enough he never got the actual rabbit.

But I'm with you on R&B FTW! Just had my players meet an awakened "Moose and Squirrel".