Rebuild of Scott Pilgrim

[Errorname]

Anyone else watching the Scott Pilgrim show that just came out? I'm about three episodes in and I'm liking it a lot so far.


While I think I would have enjoyed a straight adaptation of the comics more I definitely respect them for doing a new take on the story.

[JadedDM]

I'm five episodes in, and it's a lot of fun so far. Evans and Larson are clearly having the time of their lives. And Whitman is always golden.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I'm always a little cagey about "doing a new take on the story" - sometimes it works well, but it's possible to botch things drastically if you lose site of what you are adapting (Douglas Adams didn't do too badly with Hitchhiker).

At least this has Bryan Lee O'Malley at the helm, which is usually a good sign. If it ever makes these shores I'll have a look.

[Mystic Muse]

LaZodiac and I just finished watching this together recently. Legitimately, my only complaint is that I feel like we didn't get enough time with certain characters. Everything else felt very good and fun.

[Infernally Clay]

I just genuinely appreciate the new approach. They're Ramona's exes, after all, so it was always a bit weird the premise was "new guy beats up old exes to win the girl" when all the breakups were bad because of the girl in question. It's more interesting that Ramona has to give closure to the people she hurt.

[Batcathat]

I just genuinely appreciate the new approach. They're Ramona's exes, after all, so it was always a bit weird the premise was "new guy beats up old exes to win the girl" when all the breakups were bad because of the girl in question. It's more interesting that Ramona has to give closure to the people she hurt.

Even aside from that, the original story has already been told at least twice, so doing something new with it is kinda nice from that point of view as well (granted, with how long it's been since the comic and the movie, a lot of viewers probably aren't very familiar with either).

[Dragonus45]

I just genuinely appreciate the new approach. They're Ramona's exes, after all, so it was always a bit weird the premise was "new guy beats up old exes to win the girl" when all the breakups were bad because of the girl in question. It's more interesting that Ramona has to give closure to the people she hurt.

It worked in the context of both Ramona and Scott being forced to confront their overly rosy bordering on delusional views of their past selves but I also appreciate that it calls out the idea that they both need to put work in and letting Scott punch all her exes into loose change didn't do so much for her after all. This seems to be going with a more straightforward Scott backstory though based on what Kim said so that theming changes a lot. Sure he is still a clueless moron dating a highschooler and not getting why that is wrong but barring a second season digging into it he isn't quite the same about being in denial of what a jerk he had been in the past.

[jidasfire]

Not a big fan of the way they played this, honestly. I think you can tell a different version of an older story, and there probably was room in this case to do so. But if a creator is confident about that decision, why lie about it? Every bit of the marketing focuses heavily on Scott, and the interviews with O'Malley suggested minor changes at most. I don't respect creators developing an antagonistic relationship with fans just to drive clicks and views, and I feel like that's what this is. The defenses I've seen of it, oddly enough, are rooted in the idea that Scott wasn't a good character, but if you feel that way, why are you invested in the story in the first place? I guess I just hate bait-and-switch storytelling.

[Batcathat]

Not a big fan of the way they played this, honestly. I think you can tell a different version of an older story, and there probably was room in this case to do so. But if a creator is confident about that decision, why lie about it? Every bit of the marketing focuses heavily on Scott, and the interviews with O'Malley suggested minor changes at most. I don't respect creators developing an antagonistic relationship with fans just to drive clicks and views, and I feel like that's what this is. The defenses I've seen of it, oddly enough, are rooted in the idea that Scott wasn't a good character, but if you feel that way, why are you invested in the story in the first place? I guess I just hate bait-and-switch storytelling.

Well, if you're going to include an unexpected twist in your story, it doesn't seem like a great idea to literally advertise the fact. Granted, I think the only marketing I saw before the show were the trailers, so I can't speak to how misleading interviews and such were.

[Dragonus45]

Not a big fan of the way they played this, honestly. I think you can tell a different version of an older story, and there probably was room in this case to do so. But if a creator is confident about that decision, why lie about it? Every bit of the marketing focuses heavily on Scott, and the interviews with O'Malley suggested minor changes at most. I don't respect creators developing an antagonistic relationship with fans just to drive clicks and views, and I feel like that's what this is. The defenses I've seen of it, oddly enough, are rooted in the idea that Scott wasn't a good character, but if you feel that way, why are you invested in the story in the first place? I guess I just hate bait-and-switch storytelling.

Honestly, I don't think this was an antagonistic twist the same way something like the He-Man netflix thing was. Mostly because O'Malley seems to be more in tune with his audience and "surprise the show is a time loop sequel to a potentially different version of the original story" is just so bloody on brand for the kind of stupid that the Scott Pilgrim setting revels in that it doesn't feel as much like a Gotcha.

[Errorname]

Not a big fan of the way they played this, honestly. I think you can tell a different version of an older story, and there probably was room in this case to do so. But if a creator is confident about that decision, why lie about it?

Frankly, because it's fun. It may be deceptive but I can't say I'd have done any different, the idea of having it as a surprise twist at the end of the first episode is too tempting to resist.

[BRC]

Just gonna put all this under a spoiler



Personally, I loved the show. I loved the decision to radically change the story and provide an alternative take on this. I loved the story we got. I loved how various side characters got to be expanded upon with Scott and the "Fight the 7 evil exes" storyline getting removed. I'm sure a more straightforward remake would have had excellent action, but the action we GOT was great as well.


Most notably, the story they wanted to tell worked for the amount of show they had. The Comic is very decompressed, and takes a lot of time to tell it's story in the margins of the "Fight the 7 Evil Exes" framing device. The movie has to trim all that out, and while it's a fun movie, it kind of ends up as an inversion of the Book's story, because a film simply isn't time to tell a story like the one in the book.

This story was written to be told in this series. A straightforward remake would probably have ended up feeling a lot more like the Movie, moving through the motions of "Fight the Evil Exes" while the character drama gets forced out.


Personally, I love that they eschewed a straight remake in favor of an alternate approach that helped expand and shine light on the original story.


My one beef is that, well, it kind of WASN'T shining alternate light on the original story. It presents itself as an alternate take on the events of the original if something different had happened, but it's not quite canon compliant, with two major changes.

1) Minor Backstory Character Simon Lee. In the book, Scott initially recounts the story of how he started dating Kim after a boy from a rival school, Simon Lee, sent a gang of thugs to kidnap her, and Scott went to rescue her. We later get this recontextualized by Kim. Simon wasn't some big bad gang leader, he was a skinny nerd, and her boyfriend at the time. As far as we can tell, Scott just kind of picked a fight with Simon and beat him up. Unclear if this was at all connected with Scott and Kim dating, or why Scott did it, but Scott had recontextualized this as a heroic Rescue.

In Takes Off, Kim tells Scott's version of the story when Ramona asks for a romantic memory of Scott. Simon Lee's gang kidnapped Kim and Scott fought them all to get her back. Implying that either Scott's version is true in this universe, Or Kim is lying to Ramona to protect Scott's memory (Although in that case, she could have just...not brought it up).

2) Gideon. Takes Off lacks a clear "Evil Villain", Future Scott kind of holds that role, but most of the runtime is Ramona confronting her own past. Gideon has "Supervillain" as a character trait, but when he loses his empire he turns into a goofy depressed slacker who devotedly latches onto Julie, the one girl who remembers who he truly is. Ramona comments that Gideon should treat Julie better than he treated her, but otherwise is apparently fine with it.

Book Gideon is, explicitly, an abuser obsessed with controlling the women he dates. His exes are kidnapped and cryogenically frozen to await the day he thinks they'll be ready to take him back. The final showdown takes place in Ramona's Head, where a massive version of Gideon sits on a throne, holding a chained Ramona. Ramona's feelings towards Gideon might be complicated, but Gideon himself is an unabashed villain.

Book Gideon simply wouldn't have worked with the story 'Takes off" is trying to tell. You can't have a story deconstructing the idea of the Evil Exes and then have the last one be Doctor Doom. But it does weaken the Show's stance as a "What-If" take on the books story.

[LaZodiac]

Just gonna put all this under a spoiler



Personally, I loved the show. I loved the decision to radically change the story and provide an alternative take on this. I loved the story we got. I loved how various side characters got to be expanded upon with Scott and the "Fight the 7 evil exes" storyline getting removed. I'm sure a more straightforward remake would have had excellent action, but the action we GOT was great as well.


Most notably, the story they wanted to tell worked for the amount of show they had. The Comic is very decompressed, and takes a lot of time to tell it's story in the margins of the "Fight the 7 Evil Exes" framing device. The movie has to trim all that out, and while it's a fun movie, it kind of ends up as an inversion of the Book's story, because a film simply isn't time to tell a story like the one in the book.

This story was written to be told in this series. A straightforward remake would probably have ended up feeling a lot more like the Movie, moving through the motions of "Fight the Evil Exes" while the character drama gets forced out.


Personally, I love that they eschewed a straight remake in favor of an alternate approach that helped expand and shine light on the original story.


My one beef is that, well, it kind of WASN'T shining alternate light on the original story. It presents itself as an alternate take on the events of the original if something different had happened, but it's not quite canon compliant, with two major changes.

1) Minor Backstory Character Simon Lee. In the book, Scott initially recounts the story of how he started dating Kim after a boy from a rival school, Simon Lee, sent a gang of thugs to kidnap her, and Scott went to rescue her. We later get this recontextualized by Kim. Simon wasn't some big bad gang leader, he was a skinny nerd, and her boyfriend at the time. As far as we can tell, Scott just kind of picked a fight with Simon and beat him up. Unclear if this was at all connected with Scott and Kim dating, or why Scott did it, but Scott had recontextualized this as a heroic Rescue.

In Takes Off, Kim tells Scott's version of the story when Ramona asks for a romantic memory of Scott. Simon Lee's gang kidnapped Kim and Scott fought them all to get her back. Implying that either Scott's version is true in this universe, Or Kim is lying to Ramona to protect Scott's memory (Although in that case, she could have just...not brought it up).

2) Gideon. Takes Off lacks a clear "Evil Villain", Future Scott kind of holds that role, but most of the runtime is Ramona confronting her own past. Gideon has "Supervillain" as a character trait, but when he loses his empire he turns into a goofy depressed slacker who devotedly latches onto Julie, the one girl who remembers who he truly is. Ramona comments that Gideon should treat Julie better than he treated her, but otherwise is apparently fine with it.

Book Gideon is, explicitly, an abuser obsessed with controlling the women he dates. His exes are kidnapped and cryogenically frozen to await the day he thinks they'll be ready to take him back. The final showdown takes place in Ramona's Head, where a massive version of Gideon sits on a throne, holding a chained Ramona. Ramona's feelings towards Gideon might be complicated, but Gideon himself is an unabashed villain.

Book Gideon simply wouldn't have worked with the story 'Takes off" is trying to tell. You can't have a story deconstructing the idea of the Evil Exes and then have the last one be Doctor Doom. But it does weaken the Show's stance as a "What-If" take on the books story.





Both of these complaints relate to The Glow, which I think is probably the weakest part of Scott Pilgrim the Comic. I've never been a big fan of "yeah Scott's got bad memory and is a prick, but Gideon's magical depression powers and ability to edit memories allowed him to make him worse, and also allowed him to keep a hook in Ramona by utilizing her depressive desire to abandon people when things get serious or troublesome". It's just kinda stupid, and in fact so stupid I forgot it existed till I saw someone saying it's weird that Takes Off didn't touch on The Glow at all.

I for one am glad they did not, because The Glow is stupid as hell imho.

[Errorname]

my one beef is that, well, it kind of WASN'T shining alternate light on the original story. It presents itself as an alternate take on the events of the original if something different had happened, but it's not quite canon compliant, with two major changes.

It's best to look at this as a separate continuity incorporating elements from both previous iterations of the story. Elements from the movie characters are added to more comic loyal characters, and some characters get whole new elements of their personality that weren't present in either.

[Eurus]

Both of these complaints relate to The Glow, which I think is probably the weakest part of Scott Pilgrim the Comic. I've never been a big fan of "yeah Scott's got bad memory and is a prick, but Gideon's magical depression powers and ability to edit memories allowed him to make him worse, and also allowed him to keep a hook in Ramona by utilizing her depressive desire to abandon people when things get serious or troublesome". It's just kinda stupid, and in fact so stupid I forgot it existed till I saw someone saying it's weird that Takes Off didn't touch on The Glow at all.

I for one am glad they did not, because The Glow is stupid as hell imho.

Speaking as someone who only saw the movie and has no idea what The Glow is, I did also think that Gideon was in a weird place in Takes Off. Like, even just going with what's actually onscreen in this adaptation, Ramona at least seems pretty convinced that Gideon was a bad and probably abusive dude but then she seems to kind of shrug it off. I didn't feel like Gideon's character "developed", it just kinda... didn't come up.

I enjoyed a lot of the show, but I felt like it was rushed in places, and some of the characterization was disappointing. Some characters seem to get an entire arc jammed into like half an episode and then promptly disappear, some characters get a full episode but don't seem to actually change much by the end, some stuff just doesn't get addressed at all. But I'm not super invested in these characters to begin with, so I mostly just enjoyed the comedy and action. Young Neil is the best.

[LaZodiac]

Speaking as someone who only saw the movie and has no idea what The Glow is, I did also think that Gideon was in a weird place in Takes Off. Like, even just going with what's actually onscreen in this adaptation, Ramona at least seems pretty convinced that Gideon was a bad and probably abusive dude but then she seems to kind of shrug it off. I didn't feel like Gideon's character "developed", it just kinda... didn't come up.

I enjoyed a lot of the show, but I felt like it was rushed in places, and some of the characterization was disappointing. Some characters seem to get an entire arc jammed into like half an episode and then promptly disappear, some characters get a full episode but don't seem to actually change much by the end, some stuff just doesn't get addressed at all. But I'm not super invested in these characters to begin with, so I mostly just enjoyed the comedy and action. Young Neil is the best.

That's entirely fair. And agreed that Young Neil comes out strongest of all the side cast who get to be main cast now- the guy's greatest claim to fame was Scott saying he is no longer Young Neil, he's just Neil, but now? Now he has an entire like, character trait or two! And is probably the funniest character in the show.

I feel like Gideon's backslide into villainy due to Julie thinking evil is hot DOES count as like, some character growth. It's just negative for him. His bromance with Lucas was honestly really sweet, and in a world where he doesn't have a negative influence (and doesn't have his own inner evil inspiring him to still be bad) he might have chilled out a lot more. Ramona not being suspect of his behavior is a little weird, but also by this point she's dealt with the majority of her exs and seen THEM get their redemption arcs (sorta), so I think it makes sense that he was a blindspot for her.

Hell, Gideon's romance with her WAS a blind spot for her after all, the guy is immediately scummy from minute one but she let it last because she thought there was something there. In thet comic it was him using his depression powers to force the idea that she deserves to belong to him into her brain, in the movie it is a literal mind control chip that she can resist but can't fully ignore, and in Takes Off it's... just genuinely caring about the good parts of him that ARE in there somewhere, beneath all the corporate ******* monster man. It's interesting, to me.