New 4th Ed Article: The Bulette

[Swooper]

New article up on WotC's site. Nothing too interesting of note, but some glimpses of mechanics may be deduced from it.

-I'm gonna place my bet on that 'Elite' monsters will have more 'powers' than regular mooks, since you'll only have a couple of them in combat at the same time it won't bog down the DM as much as if regular goblins could choose from lots of different combat options.
-We see how the rogue goes for an armour piercing shot there, likely in favour of a more damaging attack.
-AoOs appearantly normally occur when a target leaves a threatened space. The bulette can avoid this by diving quickly into the ground.

Here's the link:
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071211&authentic=true

[Lord Tataraus]

For convenience:
The earth quivers. The ground furrows. Turning earth knocks heroes from their feet, and a mated pair of mighty bulettes bursts into their midst.

All granite-hard hide, characteristic fins, and below-ground tactics, the bulette has been a staple of D&D since the early days. Fourth Edition continues to do it honor by making it an elite monster.

Elite Monsters
Elite monsters represent a greater challenge: They count as two monsters of their level for encounter building and rewards. Elite monsters have the word “elite” preceding their level and role.

Here’s how a fight against a pair of such beasts might go:

The bulettes are underground using their burrowing movement. Even though the PCs can hear the creatures (a bulette isn’t exactly stealthy), they can’t attack until the bulettes rise to the surface.
When the bulettes go, they go mean. The first burrows shallowly through the earth under the fighter and rogue – the fighter keep his feet, but the rogue falls down and makes a good target. The bulette leaves the ground to take advantage of this and bites the poor fellow, doing some serious damage.
Bulette number two uses the same opening gambit but knocks over both the cleric and the wizard, who were next to each other. It opts to burst from the ground in a spray of packed dirt and stone. The prone heroes are easier to hit and take more damage from the wave of rocks. The fighter is also in range of the burst, but he brushes the soil aside with his shield.
The party gets to act. The rogue rises. He’s not in a position to flank, but he can still try to do some damage. He doesn’t like the look of the bulette’s heavy armor, so he tries to slip his short sword between two stony plates before the bulette can react and he draws blood.
The wizard’s in a bad spot. He probably can’t lay down an attack without provoking an opportunity attack or burning his allies, so he delays. Good thing, because the cleric places fear in the bulette’s tiny mind, which doesn’t offer much resistance. The bulette burrows away, taking an opportunity attack from the cleric before he gets underground (avoiding like attacks from the fighter and the rogue.
This gives the wizard the chance to stand and cover the bulette’s space with crackling lightning -- the monster’s bulk means it doesn’t have much chance to evade the blast and it doesn’t. The fighter follows with a good, old-fashioned heavy sword swing and gets lucky: a critical hit. The bulette isn’t looking good (it’s bloodied), but now it gets to act.
Bulette number one dives into the earth so rapidly that the heroes around it don’t get opportunity attacks. Safely in the ground, it heals some damage and then burrows under the heroes, who are now clustered close enough that the bulette can affect them all. Bulette number two follows by burrowing back into the action and bursting from the ground to rain more rocks down on the party, reminding them all that it’s time for some healing.

The battle goes on. Even though there are four heroes, it only takes two bulettes to give them a run for their money. Fourth Edition has such elite monsters because you don’t always want a straight one-on-one fight -- sometimes a monster should just be bigger, tougher, and scarier than the norm.

Interesting. Some things of note:
Shields seem to be more realistic by blocking the wave of rocks.
The cleric has a fear spell/power which is unusual for stereotypical good casters.
Not much else.

[DraPrime]

Let me put this into simpler terms: Blah blah blah vague hinting at new rules blah blah blah blah there are powerful monsters blah blah blah.

[Swooper]

Shields seem to be more realistic by blocking the wave of rocks.

You could be right, but that could be just a flavourful description of the rocksplashy attack missing due to the fighter's higher AC, though.

[Lord Tataraus]

You could be right, but that could be just a flavourful description of the rocksplashy attack missing due to the fighter's higher AC, though.

Yeah, I thought that it might be something like that, but you're probably right, I shouldn't get my hopes up. Its that too interesting really.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Interestingly, it says "Heals some damage". Seems like they're really bent on making clerics something different from a band aid. If a monster can heal itself, a PC will probably be able to do it too.

[RTGoodman]

I haven't read every single preview article, and so I don't know if they've said anything about it before, but it does seem that flanking is still gonna be at least a part of a Rogue's repertoire for getting sneak attack. Though, it does appear that he'll have a few tricks to get past armor and such.

[cupkeyk]

This gives the wizard the chance to stand and cover the bulette’s space with crackling lightning -- the monster’s bulk means it doesn’t have much chance to evade the blast and it doesn’t.

This could mean that larger creatures as we know them now, have lower reflex saves OR as, my group often observes when larger creatures are in area effects, larger creatures take more damage from area effects because more portions of their body is exposed to the effect. Smaller creatures get hit for less but generally have less hit points anyway. Ho-hum.

[Mewtarthio]

Also, the Monster Manual will list the roles of the creatures it presents.


Elite monsters have the word “elite” preceding their level and role.

So I'm guessing the stat block will look somthing like:

"Bullette -- Elite Striker 10"

[Lord Tataraus]

Also, the Monster Manual will list the roles of the creatures it presents.



So I'm guessing the stat block will look somthing like:

"Bullette -- Elite Striker 10"

Hm...good point, I guess they really are going to push the whole role thing. I wonder how different (if at all) a monster's level will be from CR. I have a feeling it will be the same as before, though hopefully they'll have a set formula or something for it.

[tyckspoon]

This could mean that larger creatures as we know them now, have lower reflex saves OR as, my group often observes when larger creatures are in area effects, larger creatures take more damage from area effects because more portions of their body is exposed to the effect. Smaller creatures get hit for less but generally have less hit points anyway. Ho-hum.

I'm guessing it's just that large creatures tend to have bad Reflex saves, and can probably be safely assumed to have bad Reflex defenses in 4th Ed as well (although.. the 3.5 Bulette's Ref isn't bad. It's got a good Dex, especially for a Huge thing.)

Also, yay landshark!

[Tren]

It's tough to tell what's flavorful description and what's crunch, but do I dare hope that rogues might be able to take a full-attack action and roll an attack roll against an opponents touch AC (or reflex save now, right?), giving them more combat options instead of just sneak attacking?

[AslanCross]

Perhaps having Elite monsters will actually be an improvement over the current CR system?

[brian c]

his gives the wizard the chance to stand and cover the bulette’s space with crackling lightning -- the monster’s bulk means it doesn’t have much chance to evade the blast and it doesn’t.

I assume that lightning would be opposed by Reflex defense. Hinting that there are size modifiers affecting Reflex, or just that being big means low dex, which in turn means bad Reflex?

[tyckspoon]

Perhaps having Elite monsters will actually be an improvement over the current CR system?

Almost anything would be. I certainly consider it an improvement over the current version of 'elite' monsters, where some things are deliberately made tougher than they should be for the CR (dragons and demons are big offenders) but are still assumed by the official system to be the same challenge as anything else.

I also like that the default encounter is assumed to be a group against a group now; that should make it easier for the designers to write monsters, since they don't have to worry so much about trying to make a solo critter that still manages to be a good encounter instead of losing initiative and getting nuked off the map.

[Fixer]

I assume that lightning would be opposed by Reflex defense. Hinting that there are size modifiers affecting Reflex, or just that being big means low dex, which in turn means bad Reflex?
If I had to guess, I would agree with this statement. It would make sense that larger creatures would have a lower Reflex score to defend against area-of-effect spells and touch attacks.

[KIDS]

Interesting though overglorified. But the "elite" mark is going to bring in whines about MMORPGS again (you know, Quest lvl 10; ELITE [3 players]) :)

All in all, I don't have much trouble estimating what is strong and what is weak for its CR right now, but for someone with less consideration or time, if they get it right, the new system could easily be pure gold!!!

[Merlin the Tuna]

Again, the article doesn't say much, but what I took away from it was that the Bulette goes above and below ground a lot. Which is cool -- it's way more Jaws/Tremors. 3.5 Bulettes.... not so good at that. (Burrow speed of 10 feet? Thats... not even enough to get a Huge creature underground in one move action.) Their only 3.5 ability involves jumping into the air, and it doesn't require them to do it from underground. They pretty much cease to be a land shark as soon as initiative is rolled -- by that time they're just a sack of HP and XP like anybody else. This version sounds way less direct. I like it.

[Mr. Friendly]

Interesting though overglorified. But the "elite" mark is going to bring in whines about MMORPGS again (you know, Quest lvl 10; ELITE [3 players]) :)

All in all, I don't have much trouble estimating what is strong and what is weak for its CR right now, but for someone with less consideration or time, if they get it right, the new system could easily be pure gold!!!

Yeah... but hey... in our games we do that kind of stuff anyway, we have for a long time. (Ok, there are 4 orcs, when a 5th orc walks out, he carries big scary weapons. He has a gold dragon around his portrait/he cons red to you) Then again our games are usually pretty tongue in cheek. No need to to take a game deathly serious. (Black Leaf, No!)

[Sebastian]

For convenience:
Thanks



Interesting. Some things of note:
Shields seem to be more realistic by blocking the wave of rocks.

Bonus ro reflex defense, I'd bet.


The cleric has a fear spell/power which is unusual for stereotypical good casters.

I don't know if they explicitely said it yet, but Im' pretty sure that 4th edition will give only lip service to alignement, if any at all.
But beside that, never heard the expression "putting the fear of god into someone" ;)

[Sebastian]

Hm...good point, I guess they really are going to push the whole role thing. I wonder how different (if at all) a monster's level will be from CR. I have a feeling it will be the same as before, though hopefully they'll have a set formula or something for it.

I have the feeling that someway they are bring back the "hit dice" concept from previous edition. More generally I think that 4th edition will bring back many concepts/idea from previous edition, which all considered I see as a good thing. Of course there is yet to see hoe they'll bring them back. What I've seen until now don't make me really optimistic.

[Dausuul]

Is it just me, or has the quality of these articles (in terms of providing us with concrete information to sink our teeth into) dropped significantly over the last month or so?

Probably trying not to undercut sales of "Classes and Races..."

[Merlin the Tuna]

I have the feeling that someway they are bring back the "hit dice" concept from previous edition.Probably, but I expect that they'll be changed substantially. For one, one of the devs (Noonan, maybe?) mentioned a while back that he was in job of making monster scalability feasible to at least some degree. At the same time, I expect that hit dice will be split up by role (brute, skirmisher, etc.) rather than by type. There's a lot of goofy baggage that goes with type/race, and it scales in a direction pretty tangential to the central design scheme.

[Issabella]

Elite monsters? Elite monsters? can those unoriginal hacks copy world of warcraft just a little more? Why not just have the monster flagged as a higher cr? I had vauge hopes of the mechanics of 4.0 overriding my hatred of what they did to the lore. Now that hope is waining. hehe, thankfully my one GM still runs in basic D&D. He never converted to AD&D. Thaco forever!

[Tormsskull]

I'm not going to whine about it, but it is definitely another nod towards MMORPGS. So far we have less classes with "tracks" that they can take (sounds like specs in WOW) to differentiate between the different types. We now have Elite monsters, which is exactly like WOW.

Its ok that they borrow things from other systems, and to borrow elements from a billion-dollar game seems like a pretty smart way to try to get people that are interested in WOW interested in D&D.

I wonder if the next article will talk about "levels" of magic items (Rare, Epic, Legendary, Artifact).

It will be interesting to see how well they pull off the integration of some MMORPG elements into the tabletop experience.

[Ryshan Ynrith]

See, while the terminology may be MMORPGish, this sort of concept has been around a while. Specifically, the Fellowship of the Ring in Moria. There's a whole bunch of mooks that they basically plow through (orcs) and then there's an elite opponent who's a credible threat all be itself (the cave troll). It serves a dramatic purpose by showing the general prowess of the group or individuals, and then introducing something that is by itself more powerful than any particular character which must be overcome by teamwork or fled from.

[Dausuul]

Elite monsters? Elite monsters? can those unoriginal hacks copy world of warcraft just a little more? Why not just have the monster flagged as a higher cr? I had vauge hopes of the mechanics of 4.0 overriding my hatred of what they did to the lore. Now that hope is waining. hehe, thankfully my one GM still runs in basic D&D. He never converted to AD&D. Thaco forever!

Basic D&D? I thought Basic D&D didn't have THAC0, just to-hit tables.

[Tormsskull]

Basic D&D? I thought Basic D&D didn't have THAC0, just to-hit tables.

No, Basic D&D had THAC0. On the bottom of those old musty green character sheets would be a small chart that listed off the ACs and then you filled in the number you needed to hit each AC.

[Ulzgoroth]

There is a legitimate advantage to making a monster have both a 'level' and a strength indicator associated. When you've got a CR level+2 monster in 3.5, it may mean it'll be a fairly difficult fight for your party. It also may mean that it's balanced against the party having another level of spells, higher saves, magic weapons that they can't afford at this level, or something of the kind. If you can differentiate between a current-level 'elite' opponent, and a level+2 normal, you won't run into that.

[kamikasei]

Elite monsters? Elite monsters? can those unoriginal hacks copy world of warcraft just a little more? Why not just have the monster flagged as a higher cr? I had vauge hopes of the mechanics of 4.0 overriding my hatred of what they did to the lore. Now that hope is waining. hehe, thankfully my one GM still runs in basic D&D. He never converted to AD&D. Thaco forever!

As Ulzgoroth says: it's so that you can look at a monster and see that it's CR X, thus meant to challenge a party of level X, but either alone or in pairs or in a larger group.

[Emperor Demonking]

The elite systm seems like it could save people from moaning about having to learn new stuff. As you don't need to look closely at it to see its more powerful that Y.

[Artanis]

Elite monsters? Elite monsters? can those unoriginal hacks copy world of warcraft just a little more? Why not just have the monster flagged as a higher cr? I had vauge hopes of the mechanics of 4.0 overriding my hatred of what they did to the lore. Now that hope is waining. hehe, thankfully my one GM still runs in basic D&D. He never converted to AD&D. Thaco forever!
Boy, did KIDS ever call it. Just 1 hour and 3 minutes later...


They explicitly state in the article the reason why they don't flag it as a higher CR, and it has to do with them designing the system for fighting multiple monsters, instead of just 1 big one. They state that an elite monster counts as 2 of its level. So instead of fighting 4 of a certain level of monster, you'll fight 2 elite ones, or 1 elite and 2 normal ones, or so forth.

But of course, if they had used some other term - like "superior" or "extra-strong" rather than "elite" - there is no doubt in my mind that you would not be comparing it to WoW.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Interesting though overglorified. But the "elite" mark is going to bring in whines about MMORPGS again (you know, Quest lvl 10; ELITE [3 players]) :)

All in all, I don't have much trouble estimating what is strong and what is weak for its CR right now, but for someone with less consideration or time, if they get it right, the new system could easily be pure gold!!!

I'm surprised we only got the one 'OMG ITS WOW, WOTC RUINS LIFE' whining :smallbiggrin:

But I digress...

Interesting things from the article:
- Rogues still need to flank to do some special attack.
- I'm pretty sure the cleric cast 'Command' on the bullette (the spell the cleric cast sounded like a 1 round mind affecting spell) - good to see they kept in the classic cleric spell.
- Shields help to defend vs. area attacks.
- Bulettes can burrow fast.
- Bulettes can heal themselves - we don't know if they have some kind of 'Heals X damage every round it's underground' ability only bulettes (and other earthy creatures) have, or if all monsters can do it.
- D&D iconics seem to have gotten alot more buffed up.

Anything else?

[kamikasei]

- At least one test party is with a 'classic' adventuring party of 1 fighter, 1 rogue, 1 cleric and 1 wizard (who can cast lightning bolt).

There's no reason I can see to assume that this is a description of actual tested play, rather than just a hypothetical situation intended to describe how Wizards intend combat to go. That the Rogue couldn't flank might have been decided so that this new ability could be shown off. That the fighter stayed on his feet might have been to show some benefit of superior strength or similar.

[Starsinger]

That the fighter stayed on his feet might have been to show some benefit of superior strength or similar.

Stability anyone?

[Lord Tataraus]

Stability anyone?

That's it!! I knew there was an ability that resisted falling over and such I just couldn't remember what it was. So either it was a dwarf or fighters in general get it.

[SpikeFightwicky]

There's no reason I can see to assume that this is a description of actual tested play, rather than just a hypothetical situation intended to describe how Wizards intend combat to go. That the Rogue couldn't flank might have been decided so that this new ability could be shown off. That the fighter stayed on his feet might have been to show some benefit of superior strength or similar.

Fixed my posted.

Another thing I noticed: the rogue got to his feat without provoking an attack of opportunity (which still exists as they mention it in the article). Will being tripped be less punishing?

[Artanis]

One thing that I noticed that nobody is mentioned is that it says that at one point, the Wizard can't attack without getting an AoO or hurting his buddies. That implies that Wizards have some way of getting an AoE spell that is hard to aim (self-centered burst, maybe?) but that doesn't trigger AoOs.

[Mewtarthio]

One thing that I noticed that nobody is mentioned is that it says that at one point, the Wizard can't attack without getting an AoO or hurting his buddies. That implies that Wizards have some way of getting an AoE spell that is hard to aim (self-centered burst, maybe?) but that doesn't trigger AoOs.

Or that any attack would provoke an AoO and possibly harm his allies on top of that. I'm pretty sure that "or" is meant to be inclusive.

[Stam]

I read the blow-by-blow and wondered...gee, does anyone else see the contradiction between the "small brain" mentioned and the tactics used by the brutes?

[Mewtarthio]

There's no contradiction. It's instinct. The mated bullettes (an image I did not need, Wizards!) sense some food for their children. Both bullettes do what comes naturally and dig up from underneath the food, knocking it down (no more intelligent that a boa constrictor using its grapple attack). Bullette A suddenly gets the feeling that everything's a lot scarier than it should be and burrows underground. Bullette B takes far more damage than most normal food should be capable of dealing and burrows underground. These particular bullettes are apparently starved and rabid, so they just repeat the above steps until the food stops moving.

[kamikasei]

I read the blow-by-blow and wondered...gee, does anyone else see the contradiction between the "small brain" mentioned and the tactics used by the brutes?

Not here, sorry. They burrow up and burst out to knock over their prey, dive and heal when they're hurt, return to burst up in the midst of their targets to knock them over... it seems like pretty straightforward instinctive behavior for predators who can move through an entire medium that their prey can't but is stuck to. Imagine fish who eat those insects that walk on the surface of water.

[Stam]

Point retracted. :smallredface:

[Swooper]

- Bulettes can heal themselves - we don't know if they have some kind of 'Heals X damage every round it's underground' ability only bulettes (and other earthy creatures) have, or if all monsters can do it.
It has been mentioned that every character will have the ability to heal themselves, so it's logical to assume that every monster can do that too. I've heard of a mechanic in SW:Saga that does exactly that, 'Second Wind'. I don't know how it works, but the name explains it a bit from a fluff perspective. It's not in a way that the fighter channels divine energy to mend his wounds.. he just catches his breath between fights. I imagine that's what the Bulette was doing.

[SpikeFightwicky]

It has been mentioned that every character will have the ability to heal themselves, so it's logical to assume that every monster can do that too. I've heard of a mechanic in SW:Saga that does exactly that, 'Second Wind'. I don't know how it works, but the name explains it a bit from a fluff perspective. It's not in a way that the fighter channels divine energy to mend his wounds.. he just catches his breath between fights. I imagine that's what the Bulette was doing.

Yeah, the second wind mechanic allows a heroic character (any PC, or an NPC with 'heroic' class levels) to gain back 50% of his maximum HP as a swift action once per day (or more if you take the right feat). It adds a bit of a cinematic flair to combat. It's wasn't available to creatures, though.

Where's this 'every character has a way to heal' themselves article (haven't read it yet)? If they adapt some version of the 'second wind' mechanic, that would be great, though if every monster can do the same, that kind of defeats the purpose. Perhaps only 'elite' monsters will be able to use a 'second wind' ability/mechanic. That would definately be an interesting twist.

[Pronounceable]

The comment "it's bloodied" and the bulette healing itself suspiciously reminds me of several systems where HP is divided into two categories, where one is recoverable by waiting during combat and other is "real damage" so to speak.

"Bloodied" also sounds like a status describing amount sustained damage, which may possibly affect combat prowess. Then again, it could just be a simple HP gauge as health bars from a myriad of video games.


And "elite" is NOT originally a MMORPG term. It comes from Roguelikes. A mainstream appearance of the concept was back in Diablo, with uniques (buffed up regular monsters, with an entourage).

Blizzard is surely an influential company.

[Mewtarthio]

I believe "bloodied" has been confirmed to mean "at less than 50% hp."

[tyckspoon]

The comment "it's bloodied" and the bulette healing itself suspiciously reminds me of several systems where HP is divided into two categories, where one is recoverable by waiting during combat and other is "real damage" so to speak.

"Bloodied" also sounds like a status describing amount sustained damage, which may possibly affect combat prowess. Then again, it could just be a simple HP gauge as health bars from a myriad of video games.


To the best of known facts, bloodied means 'under half HP'. It's been mentioned as a triggering condition for a lot of abilities; the dragon from an earlier article was able to pull some nasty surprises when bloodied, and it's been implied that certain class features would require a bloodied target. If the bloodied bulette hadn't hidden underground again, the rogue might have been able to do something really cruel to it, for example.

[bosssmiley]

So, what we got then?

Elite vs. boggo monsters.
Monster limit breaks (by whatever name).
Monster hp reserve (a la "Iron Heroes").
And a special attack that actually reflects the Bulette as landshark much better than the "wuh?" 3.5 mechanics did.

Not too bad really. Interesting article, but nothing that changes my mind about 4th Ed. either way. :smallconfused:

[Kagan]

While not a bad encounter description, I think it's a bad play for WotC to simultaneously stress 'dynamic combat' with lots of movement and maneuvering, while at the same time providing examples of combat that basically involve 'bunching together, standing and waiting until the monster approaches.'

I have the distinct impression that this isn't representative of all 4e combat, but they probably could have picked a better encounter to describe as a preview to 4th.

[Morty]

I'm not sure I like the "elite monsters" concept. Unless they mean that those are elite, not normal bulettes, why should bulette be more "elite" and scary than other monsters of its level? I'm kind of confused.

[Ramos]

Well, we already have Elite monsters. The Balor and the Pit Fiend are standard CR 20. The Tarrasque is Elite.

[tyckspoon]

I'm not sure I like the "elite monsters" concept. Unless they mean that those are elite, not normal bulettes, why should bulette be more "elite" and scary than other monsters of its level? I'm kind of confused.

Quick answer? It's one of the developer's favorite monsters.

Long answer: It's a Huge landshark. How is that not awesome? In terms of verismilitude, it's probably the top of its local foodchain. It presumably has to eat a lot. With the group-on-group concept underlying 4th Ed encounter design, you either need enough bulettes to use pack hunting tactics or you make it an elite monster so it can stand up to the party alone or with only one partner. Pack hunting doesn't work; a pack of bulettes would need too much food to be very viable, so they make it elite.

[Morty]

Quick answer? It's one of the developer's favorite monsters.

Long answer: It's a Huge landshark. How is that not awesome? In terms of verismilitude, it's probably the top of its local foodchain. It presumably has to eat a lot. With the group-on-group concept underlying 4th Ed encounter design, you either need enough bulettes to use pack hunting tactics or you make it an elite monster so it can stand up to the party alone or with only one partner. Pack hunting doesn't work; a pack of bulettes would need too much food to be very viable, so they make it elite.

Wouldn't it be easier to just give monsters normal levels(or CR, or whatever they name it), and just say that lone monsters should be of higher level than party?

[Corrin]

Wouldn't it be easier to just give monsters normal levels(or CR, or whatever they name it), and just say that lone monsters should be of higher level than party?

No, because the scale can get out of whack. Balancing the level progression is difficult, as the many discussions about the problems with CR have shown. There are a number of problems with the 3.x design philosophy for monster, which they have covered in various articles/forum posts, one of which is that a monster that may be balanced for a solo encounter at say, level 10, becomes unbalanced for a group encounter at levels 12-14. Beholders and Dragons, for example, don't function all that well in packs generally.

The 4E monster design philosophy, which may have problems we haven't seen yet, does address this issue very well. There are 3 types of monsters - elite (designed to count for 2 characters of that level, has more abilities, is a better "boss fight"), normal (designed to match up to one character of that level, should be working in a group, gives a fair challenge), and minion (designed to only be a threat when in large numbers and/or as support for normal/elite monsters).

This isn't to say that your low-level characters can't fight a solo minion monster that's much higher level than they are, just that you know going in that it's not going to be as balanced as fighting an elite monster of their level.

[Mewtarthio]

Wouldn't it be easier to just give monsters normal levels(or CR, or whatever they name it), and just say that lone monsters should be of higher level than party?

In 4e, encounters will be balanced on the assumption that you've got an equal number of monsters and PCs. Just sending the party against a normal monster that's a few CR above them won't work, as 3e has shown. You tend to get one of two results:

->The monster goes down as the rest of the party dogpiles him before he can take an action. If he wins initiative, he kills one party member of his choice.

->The monster slaughters the entire party because they don't have level-appropriate spells, items, etc and their HD is too low to withsand his area attacks.

Obviously, that's an exaggeration, but the point is that CR alone is a poor estimate of combat ability. In 4e, you'll know right from the monster's entry what the monster is meant to be used for. You'll also know how it was balaced, from normal monsters that are assumed to match the PCs in numbers, to mooks that are assumed to outnumber the PCs, to elites that are assumed to take on two PCs apiece, to ultra-powerful boss monsters (like dragons) designed to hold their own against entire parties.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

heh balancing never works when people try and break a system...something always gives...but never mind that.

Yeah, looks like yet another WoW style mechanic in the new 4th ed game...meh...until I see the actual details, I won't give a good or bad opinion of it. Probably like a 'paragon' light template you can add to a monster...or just their way of saying that this CR monster is very badly balanced for the CR it has so should really be used sparingly. Like that damn crab...

Comparing 4e to Star Wars Saga Ed., looks like armor and shield will add to reflex saves, maybe fort saves too...the Bullette dirt attack likely is an area effect attack that rolls to hit against your reflex save...as such, the heavily armored fighter wit a bonus from his shield is safe.

Hmm...I wonder if mages are gonna use spells like Jedi use force powers...a suite of prepared/known spells that they can cast whenever with bonuses for those staves and orbs and stuff...hmmm....interesting...

edit: For all the WoW comments...just look at the talent system in SWSE...and the level based progression of all your skills/damage/everything...it is pretty obvious that they took that as a place to model their changes on. And why not? WoW works pretty well for most people and it is fairly adaptive. Nothing really wrong with borrowing a good mechanic.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Hmm...I wonder if mages are gonna use spells like Jedi use force powers...a suite of prepared/known spells that they can cast whenever with bonuses for those staves and orbs and stuff...hmmm....interesting...

The Jedi use suites like the Tome of Battle classes do (not sure if Saga Ed. came before the ToB), but Jedi can take feats that allow a power to be used more than once. I think mages may be a mix, as in they'll have some lesser abilities that can be used per encounter, and spells that are 1/day like they are now.


edit: For all the WoW comments...just look at the talent system in SWSE...and the level based progression of all your skills/damage/everything...it is pretty obvious that they took that as a place to model their changes on. And why not? WoW works pretty well for most people and it is fairly adaptive. Nothing really wrong with borrowing a good mechanic.

Not quite. The d20 talent system originated in d20 Modern (predating WoW, though I'm not sure if the talent system was 'borrowed' from an older MMOG), and in WoW, level-based progression is pretty much the realm of hitting stuff/resisting stuff/dodging stuff/critting stuff (damage is mostly base on either equipment or spells that don't scale well with level until you get the next rank) - pretty much the same as 3.X, except AC is not advanced per level (which kind of sucks for AC - I like how Saga edition does this). The 'Elite' terminology is definately borrowed from WoW, but I think it's more a category of creature as opposed so a 'template' (it's more template like in the game). Unless it is a template (the WoW d20 game has the 'Elite' template, and it basically increases hit points (by a fair margin) and has a few stat boosts, but only has a CR increase of +2 or something, so it maintains the 'holy ass, this stupid monster just won't die' feel of an elite monster in WoW).