Is my Character a Murder Hobo ?

[Stormwolf69]

Is my Character a Murder Hobo?

Ok, I am playing as a Warlock 3/Fighter 2 in this game. The character is mostly laid back and lets the party lead but when asked by the adventures guild to deal with a goblin nest that has been terrorizing the century side. Play the Doom Music he is going full goblin slayer. He explained why he does this. The victims are farming villages and smaller settlements that can’t properly defend themselves. And being poorer areas, they can’t normally have higher stronger adventures. So, less experienced fighters are sent in most of the time underestimate them or overestimate their abilities. Leading to High fatality rates in the guild among the lower ranks and the nobles just handed this problem off to the private sector.

So is my character gone full Murder hobo? For when these jobs come up kill every and I mean every goblin in the colony? two members of the group LG Paladian and Claric think that with these types of Jobs, my character goes too far.

[Skrum]

Murder Hobo, no. Slightly psychopathic, yeah probably.

It all comes down to how you RP it though.

Just for example, maybe this character is mostly laid back, but he has some dark history with goblins - they killed his friends, family, whatever. So when he gets hired to kill goblins, he's inclined to follow the letter of the job. This could bring up some excellent RP opportunities with the paladin and/or cleric who have a more forgiving outlook on life.

Without knowing anything about your table or your character, is it possible the cleric and paladin player think you're breaking character by going murder-mode? If your character is generally laid back and good natured, but then goes full John Wick when it comes to goblins with no explanation, that's pretty baffling to the other characters.

So, have you established a reason? It doesn't have to be a long exposition - it could be you describing your character's normally jovial expression turning grim and hard, and him slashing with his sword mercilessly even after the goblin is clearly down. Like that would point towards this being personal, that there's something else going on. If he's just "wonderful day to kill goblins, isn't it!," like yeah, I would expect that to raise a few eyebrows.

[Unoriginal]

He explained why he does this. The victims are farming villages and smaller settlements that can’t properly defend themselves. And being poorer areas, they can’t normally have higher stronger adventures. So, less experienced fighters are sent in most of the time underestimate them or overestimate their abilities. Leading to High fatality rates in the guild among the lower ranks and the nobles just handed this problem off to the private sector.

Did your DM tells you this was actually happening or did you decide to just apply the Goblin Slayer's world logic to D&D goblins?




For when these jobs come up kill every and I mean every goblin in the colony?

Assuming this is taken place in a world with D&D-style goblins, that makes your character far more evil than the goblins.

[Mastikator]

Does your character have any connection to the world? Any stake in current events? Any place to call home?
If no then you got both the murder and hobo.

[kingcheesepants]

A murder hobo describes a type of playstyle which discards any form of RPing in favor of extreme violence. The murder part is because if there is any type of problem such a players first and usually only response is to kill it. This may include non hostile NPCs, enemies who have surrendered or are fleeing, or in the worst cases other party members. The hobo part is because they have no stake in the game. They don't care about the plot, the characters, the setting. They can't name an NPC or a town, they don't know what the party is trying to accomplish, they are without a home in the game whereas the other characters are at home in the setting because they have some stake in the plot and the other characters.

So long story short, no you're probably not a murder hobo. However if your penchant for violence is making others at the table have less fun or not want to play with you than maybe tone it down a bit or explain it in a way that makes them more accepting of it.

[Tawmis]

Depends on how the DM is presenting the goblins and how YOU react to what is presented.

If he's presenting the goblins as these marauding goblins who kill, main, and do whatever they can - then perhaps, killing them is fine (because they may be evil and doing this just to horde and not out of necessity).

If however, when confronting the goblins, and they explain they've been run out of their own clan for turning their back on their clan's murderous ways, and tried asking for handouts, but the people of the city always shoot to kill first...

And you still kill them?

Then you're a murder hobo.

[kazaryu]

Is my Character a Murder Hobo? unequivocally no. specifically because characters can't be murder hobos. players are murder hobos. i realize that sounds pedantic, and i actually delayed responding to this thread because I wanted to ensure that i wasn't just being pedantic. Ironically, the answer to your question is a semantic one. a murder hobo is a player that treats the game world like a game world and they treat their character like an interface with that game world. Think of it like playing skyrim and randomly going on a rampage killing everyone you can in white run for the fun of it. regardless of if your character has a motivation to do so.the player feels like running around doing murder...and so thats what the character does.

Why I think this is important, is that it sounds like its in stark contrast to you. where a murderhobo uses "its what my character would do" as a reactive justification, for roleplayers its....well, its the justification for...almost everything (healthy metagaming being a notable exception to this). As you've told the story, it doesn't sound like thats whats happening. Now...that doesn't mean you shouldn't adjust what you're doing. nor does it mean that your character isn't doing wrong.



So is my character gone full Murder hobo? For when these jobs come up kill every and I mean every goblin in the colony? two members of the group LG Paladian and Claric think that with these types of Jobs, my character goes too far.
another reason i wanted to be careful about separating the character from the players is this question. are the paladin and cleric the ones that are opposed to your characters actions? or are their players opposed to whats happening, and trying to reach out because their fun is being harmed. the former is entirely an RP thing. not even really a problem, its just a personality conflict. which is great if the game is heavily roleplay focused. the former is a table problem, and could indicate that you're straying into territory outside of what the table is comfortable with. This doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong on the grand scale, based on what you've said this isn't necessarily a "problem player" situation. However, each table needs to individually try to balance the preferences of everyone at the table, so while what you're doing isn't wrong as a whole. It may be too far, for your table.

In either case it may be a good idea to speak with the paladin and cleric player, see if you can find out if they feel like you're being disruptive. If they do, then its up to your judgement as to whether their concerns are reasonable. Part of the issue is that the things that might make this an "issue" or make you a "problem player" aren't about the actions you take, they're about why you take them. and the line for whats acceptable is different for each table. the true signs of where your behavior falls are subtle, and too complicated to truly convey in this medium...we'd literally have to have been there. So i'd suggest talking with the other players. if its an RP thing, then you need to think about your character and how you want them to take these criticisms. consider whether maybe they did go a little to "righteous fury". if it *is* a player issue, then you've already demonstrated that you're concerned about it. Thats a great first step. From there you can decide how best to move forward. for an RP heavy game you can either RP in character, or just discuss out of character, a conversation where the paladin/cleric successfully talk your guy down. Or perhaps discuss with the DM some the possibility of some kind of heavy consequence directly related to your characters bloodlust.

either way, It sounds like you made the right first step in questioning it.

[Derges]

Priestess: Children?

Goblin Slayer: They multiply fast. If we had waited any longer, there'd be about fifty of them, and they would've attacked. You were lucky.

Priestess: Are you going to kill them?

Goblin Slayer: Of course I am. They hold on to grudges for life. And the survivors of the nest learn from their mistakes and adapt. There isn't a single reason to let them live.

Priestess: Even if there was a good goblin?

Goblin Slayer: A good goblin? I guess there might be one if you looked really hard. But in the end, the only good goblins are the ones who never come out of their holes.


You are not a murder hobo for exterminating goblins.

[Unoriginal]

It may not be murderhoboism, but applying a different setting's reasoning to your DM's D&D world can be equally disruptive.

D&D goblins are sapient beings, and individuals from that species are able interact with any individuals from any other sapient species with the full panoply of choices that free will brings.

So unless OP's DM changed the above, OP's character is definitively a child-murdering evil person, with all that it implies.

[Derges]

It may not be murderhoboism, but applying a different setting's reasoning to your DM's D&D world can be equally disruptive.

D&D goblins are sapient beings, and individuals from that species are able interact with any individuals from any other sapient species with the full panoply of choices that free will brings.

So unless OP's DM changed the above, OP's character is definitively a child-murdering evil person, with all that it implies.

That's very DM specific IMO.

Goblins are NE, killing them can be described as good on a simplistic level, this nest has been killing innocents. Equally a DM may be more shades of grey with goblin innocents rejecting their nature and not being evil.

Going for either without consulting the DM (or reading the room) can be disruptive.

[Xihirli]

Priestess: Children?

Goblin Slayer: They multiply fast. If we had waited any longer, there'd be about fifty of them, and they would've attacked. You were lucky.

Priestess: Are you going to kill them?

Goblin Slayer: Of course I am. They hold on to grudges for life. And the survivors of the nest learn from their mistakes and adapt. There isn't a single reason to let them live.

Priestess: Even if there was a good goblin?

Goblin Slayer: A good goblin? I guess there might be one if you looked really hard. But in the end, the only good goblins are the ones who never come out of their holes.


You are not a murder hobo for exterminating goblins.

In your next post, you say that goblins being able to make choices is DM-dependent, but act as if this is somehow the default? What someone from a different setting altogether says about goblins?


That's very DM specific IMO.

Goblins are NE, killing them can be described as good on a simplistic level, this nest has been killing innocents. Equally a DM may be more shades of grey with goblin innocents rejecting their nature and not being evil.

Going for either without consulting the DM (or reading the room) can be disruptive.

So are goblin babies born with shortswords? Wearing leather armor? Do they have 14 DEX and 7 hp fresh out of the womb?
I mean, they must, right? They’re goblins, and the goblin statblock says all of those things.

Or are goblin babies only born with the part of the statblock that makes it okay to murder them?

[Derges]

In your next post, you say that goblins being able to make choices is DM-dependent

I didn't. I intended to imply killing goblins being an evil act is DM-dependent. The first post is about not being a murder hobo for exterminating a threat. Goblin Slayer isn't a murder Hobo, he doesn't kill his way through every NPC but has a specific vendetta against goblins. Murder hobo is not a point on the good/evil axis it's a playstyle.




So are goblin babies born with shortswords? Wearing leather armor? Do they have 14 DEX and 7 hp fresh out of the womb?
I mean, they must, right? They’re goblins, and the goblin statblock says all of those things.

Or are goblin babies only born with the part of the statblock that makes it okay to murder them?

Find me the WotC goblin baby stat block, and then we can discuss that.
Until then you can rule that they're as pure as snow, another DM can rule they pop out evil as the 9 Hells and that's my point here. Overthinking the morality of a situation can be as disruptive as underthinking it. Hence DM dependant and the suggestion to read the room.

[NontheistCleric]

That's very DM specific IMO.

Goblins are NE, killing them can be described as good on a simplistic level, this nest has been killing innocents. Equally a DM may be more shades of grey with goblin innocents rejecting their nature and not being evil.

Going for either without consulting the DM (or reading the room) can be disruptive.

If goblins were nothing but pure evil-engines, with at most a negligible chance of doing anything not evil and no free will or conscious experience, the 'simplistic' view might hold some water.

But if not... an innocent is, in fact, innocent even if their alignment happens to be NE, and in 5E especially there are few ways of discerning alignment as it is. Even in previous editions, it would generally have been accepted that a paladin detecting Evil in an individual alone did not constitute justification for their murder, or provide grounds for assumption of guilt.

[Unoriginal]

Goblins are NE

Some are.



killing them can be described as good on a simplistic level

It absolutely cannot.

First, in 5e, neutral evil covers people from "guy who is willing to pay people to vandalize rival shops" to "entity who will actively harm everyone in reality just to come out on top". There is no

Second, good people don't kill people just because they're evil.


this nest has been killing innocents.

1) Goblins don't have nests, that is just trying to reify them.

2) OP said nothing about them killing innocents, "terrorizing the countryside" can cover anything from "farmers are unsettled by them existing nearby" to "they have been methodically exterminating everything".

3) Even if there is individuals in the goblin community who make a living by killing innocents, or who kill innocents because they can, retaliating by killing the goblin children and other non-combatants is *at best* as evil as what the goblin raiders were doing.


Equally a DM may be more shades of grey with goblin innocents rejecting their nature and not being evil.

By default, goblins are NOT evil by nature in D&D 5e. No mortal being is.



Going for either without consulting the DM (or reading the room) can be disruptive.

That is quite true.



Find me the WotC goblin baby stat block, and then we can discuss that.


Thirty-four goblins are at home when the characters arrive, but only four of the goblins are warriors. Ten of the other goblins are commoners, but with 3 hit points each and a −1 reduction to hit and damage compared to the Monster Manual statistics. The other twenty creatures are noncombatants, too feeble or too fearful to defend themselves; they try to flee through the northernmost or the eastern exit. This stampede should dominate the first moments of battle, and even the goblins capable of fighting refuse to stick around just to lose their lives. Noncombatants are worth no XP.


The Sunless Citadel

Do note that Commoners are listed as neutral on their statblocks.



Forty goblins live in the village: Queen Grabstab (a goblin boss), twenty-four adult goblins, and fifteen noncombatant children.

Tomb of Annihilation, p. 89.


EDIT:

Just to make my position clear, if the OP's DM's setting is Goblin Slayer or Goblin-Slayer-like, then there is no disruption from OP and the Cleric's and Paladin's players are the ones the DM should explain how the setting works more.

If the setting isn't like that and OP is just applying the Goblin Slayer thing because they want to, then OP is being disruptive, especially if people at the tables are apparently not fine with it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Is my Character a Murder Hobo?
If you have to ask ... :smallyuk:

Ok, I am playing as a Warlock 3/Fighter 2 in this game. The character is mostly laid back and lets the party lead but when asked by the adventures guild to deal with a goblin nest that has been terrorizing the century side.
Countryside?

Play the Doom Music he is going full goblin slayer. Did the AG hire him to do this, or is he doing this for free?


The victims are farming villages and smaller settlements that can’t properly defend themselves. And being poorer areas, they can’t normally have higher stronger adventures. So, less experienced fighters are sent in most of the time underestimate them or overestimate their abilities. Leading to High fatality rates in the guild among the lower ranks and the nobles just handed this problem off to the private sector. Right. You are a mercenary hired to kill things by nobles who don't want to raise the levy/militia/whatever.

So is my character gone full Murder hobo? Maybe. That is a bit setting dependent. You have not explained the setting that your DM has provided sufficiently to assess this.


For when these jobs come up kill every and I mean every goblin in the colony? two members of the group LG Paladian and Claric think that with these types of Jobs, my character goes too far. Rather than listen to starngers on the internet, though, you need to listen to Your Fellow Players.

You are, in character, part of that team. Making sure that you are all on the same page matters, in terms of teamwork and small group dynamics.

You are, out of character, part of a group of players. Making sure that you are all on the same page matters, in terms of teamwork and small group dynamics.

If the other players are asking you to tone it down, you owe them some consideration. Engage in conversation with them and find a good approach going forward.

Don't go looking for self-justification on the internet - work with your fellow players.

[Stormwolf69]

Thanks for the Input I think I will try to RP it out by having my character sit the two in a tavern over a stiff drink.

I also think it did not help that the DM gave me info about the Adventures Guild that the other two did not due to them missing them coming in late.

Also when it comes to knowledge roles on goblins they both rolled a nat 1.

And yes the party was being paid 20 gold to take the job. and the main reason my character insisted on taking it was that another group that was sent in was overdue to report back.

Also yes my DM may have wanted to make the goblins more darker and grittier than normal D&D.

[Unoriginal]

Thanks for the Input I think I will try to RP it out by having my character sit the two in a tavern over a stiff drink.

I also think it did not help that the DM gave me info about the Adventures Guild that the other two did not due to them missing them coming in late.

Also when it comes to knowledge roles on goblins they both rolled a nat 1.

And yes the party was being paid 20 gold to take the job. and the main reason my character insisted on taking it was that another group that was sent in was overdue to report back.

Also yes my DM may have wanted to make the goblins more darker and grittier than normal D&D.

Well sounds like everything is resolved or soon going to be.

I advise you to tell the players out-of-character if there is stuff they missed, though.

Personally I wouldn't habe a roll for "basic adventuring knowledge", but that's a question of tastes and nothing more.


That being said: 20 gp for a life-risking mission, when another group already went MIA while attempting? Divided among the whole group?

Your group's being robbed, outright.

[Stormwolf69]

As for being Robbed outright.

Yes, my DM is very stingy with the rewards for quests. And it is something I have said to him a few times.

[Easy e]

If you have to ask ... :smallyuk:


Korvin, you beat me too it.

If you have to ask, then you are probably leaning on the Murder Hobo side of things. I'm not at the table, so I do not know.

[Mastikator]

As for being Robbed outright.

Yes, my DM is very stingy with the rewards for quests. And it is something I have said to him a few times.

Perhaps he expects the group to get their income from the treasure, rather than the job? Did the goblins have any good loot on them?

[Sigreid]

I know you have your path, but what you described was not IMO murder hobo at all. You weren't killing out of boredom, for lols or randomly. You were being brutal with a designated target that you were informed was harmful to the peace of the region. That said, you don't have to be murder hoboing to go to far for your group.

[saucerhead]

So is my character gone full Murder hobo? For when these jobs come up kill every and I mean every goblin in the colony? two members of the group LG Paladian and Claric think that with these types of Jobs, my character goes too far.

So do you play D&D with these two people because they are friends and you want to have fun playing the game with them? Or do you play D&D because you want to kill stuff, including goblin children even though they obviously aren't a threat and don't have treasure, and you don't care that it upsets the two other players?

If it is the former, maybe dial the murder-hobo quantity down so everyone has fun. It's a group game, not a solo one.
If it's the latter, I don't think your group is going last long and you might have to play video games instead.

I hope you guys figure it out.

[JackPhoenix]

That being said: 20 gp for a life-risking mission, when another group already went MIA while attempting? Divided among the whole group?

Your group's being robbed, outright.

Not really. Hireling (including mercenary) pay is 2 gp/day, 20(/number of characters, sounds like 3?) is more than fair.

[Unoriginal]

Not really. Hireling (including mercenary) pay is 2 gp/day, 20(/number of characters, sounds like 3?) is more than fair.

That's 3 gold 3 silver and three copper *total*, JackPhoenix.

It is only fair if it takes them a day and half to do the job.

Given that OP described the area as a countryside that's too poor for usual adventure activity, it will likely take a while to travel there and come back.

Then there is how long the job itself takes.

20gp is an acceptable amount for one PC guarding a caravan for 10 days. Not for 3 PCs destroying an enemy-filled spot.

[Witty Username]

Do you not own a house?
Do you kill things for a living?

If yes, you are a murder hobo, and that's ok.

[Sorinth]

To me the defining characteristic of the murder hobo is that it's the solution to every problem. You mentioned your character is laid back in most instances but that doesn't really mean much, if whenever you do push for something or whenever you are pushed for an idea and every time it's in the murder hobo category then yes you are a murder hobo, just one that doesn't like to take charge. So for me there's no way to answer it with only one example.

If your only proposing murder hobo solutions in very specific circumstances, ie only when it's goblins, or only when a particular NPC is in danger, or only when your Patron demands it, etc... then I wouldn't consider your character a murder hobo, but it can certainly be dark and not every table will be comfortable with that so it's good to check in with everyone out of game. If they are cool with it then I would suggest you flesh out the exact circumstances under which you go murder hobo and decide whether you want to RP any kind of character growth. Providing the DM with that info would of course be helpful for them since they can work with you.

[Tawmis]

Also when it comes to knowledge roles on goblins they both rolled a nat 1.


Everyone DMs and rules things differently.

If I were the DM, I'd say goblins are probably common enough that the players have common knowledge about them.

Or at the very least, roll with Advantage.

And even slide the DC in the player's favor, if said goblins have been terrorizing the country side.

That means they're definitely known.

[tokek]

Not a murderhobo but depending on whether you went full Anakin Skywalker you might be playing a psycho.

But if you raided a goblin war camp and killed them all that's very different.

Lawful character might insist in dragging them back to be tried and executed. Chaotic character might consider that unnecessary cruelty and just do it on the spot.

But it really depends on what you mean by colony. Because if your DM threw a load of baby goblins in there its a whole different thing (but also that can be a very different campaign type and generally I'd want that flagged up by a DM before I even think up a character).

[Tawmis]

Curious how your character would react if one of the players dies later (or a new player comes in) - and played a goblin character since they are playable?
Would you flat our murder their character?

[Slipjig]

Not really. Hireling (including mercenary) pay is 2 gp/day, 20(/number of characters, sounds like 3?) is more than fair.
And RAW a skilled artisan earns up to 1 GP per day, and a laborer earns 2 SP a day. If this is a one-day job, it's a bit of a lowball, but probably not so low that nobody will take the job.

[Samayu]

As for being Robbed outright.

Yes, my DM is very stingy with the rewards for quests. And it is something I have said to him a few times.

You need to decline the job. In character. "How many soldiers have lost their lives so far? You want me to risk my life for how much gold?"

On the other hand... find out how many of these dead soldiers were paid in advance. Maybe there's loot.

[Stormwolf69]

Curious how your character would react if one of the players dies later (or a new player comes in) - and played a goblin character since they are playable?
Would you flat-out murder their character?



Well, I was joking with the DM on that one this morning and even he said if he walks into the Adventuers guild you might have to roll init to see if another adventuer reacts first and possibly villently. This guild has losses of friends and comrades to goblins. to the point where they are hated.

[KorvinStarmast]

Curious how your character would react if one of the players dies later (or a new player comes in) - and played a goblin character since they are playable?
Would you flat our murder their character? PvP can be fun. What's the table's choice on that? Might be worth asking.

You need to decline the job. In character. "How many soldiers have lost their lives so far? You want me to risk my life for how much gold?"

On the other hand... find out how many of these dead soldiers were paid in advance. Maybe there's loot. *golf clap* :smallsmile:

[Dr.Samurai]

There seems to be some significant dissonance between the characters/players and these goblins.

On the one hand, the OP is describing a situation in which these goblins would be seriously hated and there appears to be some kill on sight type of vibes. Nothing wrong with that, seems perfectly fine if the gobs are terrorizing everyone and no one can seem to put them down.

On the other hand, the other two characters don't appear to have received this memo and require an Intelligence check to know about "goblins" despite the fact that everyone seems to be talking about them in game and they took a job specifically to destroy these goblins.

So, I don't know. I'd caution anyone about injecting too much modern morality into the game. Unless you want to play adopt-a-creature every time you clear out a lair, or wait and listen while your "virtuous" party member opines on how you've defeated the monsters, but have left their young and defenseless out in the wilds to fend for themselves... who is truly the monster here type of stuff. Best not to get that much into it in my experience. (Unless you like dealing with those consequences, in which case do it up.)

Part of the problem may be that divide; your other party members may want to contend with all the consequences of their actions and with the morality of making those choices, and you feel the actions are justified and don't want to explore that much further. (I don't say that with any judgement by the way.)