Need an elegant refluff for vow of poverty and wizard spell book

[King of Nowhere]

I've had a character in the back of my mind for years, and in a few months I may finally get to play him. It's a wizard coming from a modest background and suffering through the extreme financial cost of practicing wizardry, taking on the mission of making wizardry accessible to anyone. he took a vow of poverty*, put up a podium in the city square and started giving lessons to everyone who may be interested.

as always, once the main idea for a character is in place, there are some issues to define.
first, it must be specified that this is not a standard vow of poverty where a character makes a pact with a deity to embrace suffering for its own sake. it could be better called a vow of middle class, in that [charname] believes that wizards should be just another specialized worker with a dignified salary; he will eschew magic items and luxury, he will be a man of the people, but he will not dress himself in rags and sleep in alleys. that would go against [charname] message that wizardry can elevate the people.
and while [charname] forsakes all that would elevate him above a qualified worker, he plans to eventually start his own academy, open to all who wish to learn, where knowledge is shared freely for the benefit of all instead of hoarded and sold to a premium.
a pact with a deity would not fit this narrative, as [charname] does not wish something special to elevate him above others. So I was thinking of making the powers granted by the vow an accident, possibly a manifestation of his intense belief in the righteousness of his cause. I already talked with the dm and this seems a good starting point.

the main issue requiring a solution is the spellbook. we all know writing spells requires 50gp of "special inks" per spell level. the dm says it could be a justified necessary exception to the vow of poverty, but I resist the notion; [charname] wants to give magic to the people; he wants a world where the average housewife casts prestidigitation to clean the dishes. you can't expect the average housewife to have the money to sink into a spellbook, even a small one.
So I was thinking that [charname] came up with an alternate way of scribing spells, that does not require money, but that does involve some different cost - because the idea that for millennia the greatest archmages sunk fortunes into expensive writing implements while suddenly a student came up with a better way is too hard to swallow.
But what could this "different cost" be? my first thought was to pay with xp. But the dm pointed out that - unless the cost is so negligible as to be purely symbolic - it would hurt too much my effectiveness. especially in a high magic campaign. it would also provide an incentive to not learn new spells, while a wizard power comes from knowing many different spells.
A possible solution I suggested would be to have a regular spellbook available to all in the academy. it is established that [charname] can have his own university as long as it's used by the people for the people, so if he keeps public libraries of spells that everyone can copy for free, it would be ok with the vow, and he could still use those spells. it's only a partial solution, though. first, [charname] will only be able to establish a full academia when at relatively high level. And second, if those books are available to all, it will be hard to justify [charname] just taking them away every time he goes in missions. or what else can he do, teleport back to his academy every morning to refresh spell slots?

So, I am looking for ideas to resolve this spellbook issue. I need a way to write spells that would be cheap enough to be used in a regular household, while justifying powerful wizards not using it with a different cost. it's a cost that must be real ("you take 1d6 damage for every page you write" would not be a real cost), it must be felt by the character, but it must not cripple the character. it must also be a cost that could be paid by the average housewife, and that she may be willing to pay to clean up the house with prestidigitation, else the whole plan of "spread magic to the people" fails. Finally, it must be something reasonable to do; I can't spend all my feats on spell mastery, or really be a sorceror; it must be a solution that can be adopted by the masses.
Let's see if somebody can come up with some better solution that I did



P.S. I am sure somebody will only skim through the title and say that I can't own a wizard spell book, that the vow of poverty is a broken mechanic, that I should lose my powers whenever I open a door or I watch a piece of art, and all those usual arguments. to which I already explained that this is not the standard vow but a heavily refluffed and reworked version, where the only thing that remains is the basic premise - I can't use magic items, I get minor boosts for free instead. I am writing this retort in advance because when somebody will inevitably make such a post, I will be able to quote this section and reply that he clealry did not read my post.
I'm even tagging this thread as "roleplaying" to underline that I'm not looking for some obscure book reference to solve my problems, I'm looking at a mechanical solution to achieve an effect in line with the intended roleplayed objective.

[wilphe]

I
the main issue requiring a solution is the spellbook.

I suspect his actual main issue will be

"everyone invested in the status quo"

trying to kill him

Also he is trying to spread magic use whilst also keeping wizard at a decent salary, but if widely adopted it just becomes a mundane job...

++++++++++++

That aside, maybe some sort of spellpool - possibly accessed by feat or really easy prestige class


There is a Regional Feat in PGTF you could adapt


You come from a land where cantrips are taught to all who have the aptitude to learn magic. Every crafter and artisan, it seems, knows a minor spell or two.
Prerequisite: Int 10 or Cha 10
Region: Elf (Evereska or Evermeet) or human (Halruaa or Nimbral).
Benefit: You can cast three 0-level arcane spells per day as either a sorcerer or wizard (your choice, so long as you have a score of at least 10 in the ability that controls the spellcasting for that class). You must make this decision when you first take the feat. Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast.
If you choose to cast spells as a sorcerer, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Cha modifier. You know two 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list.
If you choose to cast spells as a wizard, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Int modifier. You have a spellbook with three 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list. You prepare your spells exactly as a wizard does.
Special: If you already have levels in sorcerer or wizard, increase the number of 0-level spells you can cast per day by three. You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat.

[wilphe]

So I was thinking that [charname] came up with an alternate way of scribing spells, that does not require money, but that does involve some different cost - because the idea that for millennia the greatest archmages sunk fortunes into expensive writing implements while suddenly a student came up with a better way is too hard to swallow.


Well, you are already on track to disrupt society, might as well embrace a disruptive technology...


But cost wise, what you actually want is "cheaper and more convenient than hiring a 1st level commoner to do the dishes for you"

Which is 1sp a day

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe, if you do it at a high enough level, you could build a monument that's multiple stone tablets with your spells on them. This way you can read those to prepare your spells, any wizard can come copy from them to learn new spells, etc. You'd just need to be sure to learn plenty of higher level spells than you can cast and spend all your wealth on it before taking VoP. Local benefactors could give you the materials to scribe new spells onto the monument as needed. Put the tablets in a circle, and if you're away you can cast Clairaudience/Clairvoyance once to put the sensor at the center and look around at any of the slabs you want to prepare your spells for the day.

[King of Nowhere]

I suspect his actual main issue will be

"everyone invested in the status quo"

trying to kill him


that's not an issue, that's a plot hook :smallcool:

[zlefin]

I don' tsee a path without rebuilding the core rules about why spells cost what they do.

At any rate, one thing I've considered on my occasional quixotic quests to make the rules make sense from a world-building perspective:
It's not that inks are innately expensive or that you truly need exotic inks for a spell; it's that spells are extremely complicated. The high cost in the standard case is because you want a portable and easily useable book. To do that you need extremely fine inks that don't smudge in order to get the necessary information density in a small amount of space. But ordinary books using ordinary inks works, it just takes like 50x the space or some such. Doable, but it rapidly ends up using so much paper it's not all that much cheaper, and far harder to carry. Since most mages are relatively rich, it's not worth doing that way. In principle you could do it cheaply with chalk and rocks, but it'd take an awful lot of space and be hard to use conveniently, though it would technically work.
so some sort of innovation or a finding of a new ink could dramatically change the undrelying costs.


I have a feeling like I've seen this exact concept pitch before btw, have you posted on this idea before? cuz it feels eerily familiar.

[King of Nowhere]

I have a feeling like I've seen this exact concept pitch before btw, have you posted on this idea before? cuz it feels eerily familiar.

I had this idea since at least a couple years ago, I may have posted it.
Actually, now that you remind me, yes I did. I actually tried to use this character in an online campaign three years ago, but it turned out the dm was the worst kind of railroader, so the campaign died in a few sessions. And I did ask a few questions about this character at the time, though I don't remember getting any good answer either. not that it would have mattered, since the few sessions we played consisted in the epic level gmpc towing us somewhere and having a big fight with a big monster, while we were assigned to fight some lesser monster - which would suddenly get nerfed or spawn reinforcements depending on how the battle was going, so that it would always stay the "right" difficulty.

this time the dm is a permanent member of my real life group, we played together for 6 years, and the only thing really threatening the campaign is conflicting schedules.

good memory on your part, I mostly forgot the involvment of this character concept with that train wreck of a campaign (I do remember the campaign very well, on the other hand, for obvious reasons)

[icefractal]

For the "Vow of Middle Class", that sounds a lot like the Oath of Poverty (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/oaths#toc17) from Spheres of Power. Sets a much more reasonable limit and also lets you do stuff like "ride in a wagon".

As for "spellbooks for the masses", I can see two main approaches:
1) Secret Page lets you stack an arbitrarily large number of spells on top of each-other for no cost beyond the first. However, it requires getting to 5th level (and not banning Illusion) so it's somewhat limited as a universal method.

2) Share books. The Spellcraft DC to prepare from another's book is easy enough to be an auto-pass for many. So make a magical library that everyone can prepare spells from - big stone tablets as Biffoniacus_Furiou suggests are a good idea (if you can guard them from those who dislike your disruption to the status quo), but people don't even need to copy from them, they just need to have a Spellcraft bonus of at least 5+SL.

Incidentally I did this second one, but I had an easier time because I was just trying to provide a communal spellbook for an organization I controlled, not the world at large. But it was basically an art gallery where the members slowly wandered through it preparing spells from the large-print pages on the walls.

[Morphic tide]

For the spell book, Eidetic Spellcaster from page 89 of Dragon #359 trades the Familiar and Scribe Scroll for fully internalized spell knowledge, payed for by same-price incenses that "reasonably should" function for multiple people at once instead of specialized inks inherently limited to a single book, which would fit perfectly to amortize costs by study-group like the public lessons, but with the important downside that it is horrendous on the information fungibility that High Academia "conventional" Wizards are highly concerned with. No spellbooks to share and no scrolls to draw from makes it much more painful to spread spells around.

You could also look at Candle Caster from page 53 of Tome & Blood (it has no 3.5 update) for some further mechanics that would do well to expand the alternate methodology, maybe examine Advanced Psionic Tattoos (https://web.archive.org/web/20120419163749/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) for stuff to loot if approaching as a full alternative.

I'd actually suggest a slotless counterpart of Ancestral Relic rules or parsing it through Weapons of Legacy rules via the Monster of Legacy template over Vow of Poverty, for the sake of ongoing fungibility that is the biggest source of VoP being mechanically questionable. This poorly-archived thread (https://web.archive.org/web/20080611071141/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=966877) from Ye Olden Official Forums has some ideas on alternate cost schemes for Weapons of Legacy that would apply fine to using Monster of Legacy rules for the upside, including GP value estimates that could merge it with Ancestral Relic.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could change it up slightly and be a convert-spell-to-power erudite. You get psionic powers and arcane spells converted to psionic powers (and divine spells converted to arcane spells converted to psionic powers) and not have to pay a single copper piece for learning them -- just XP. You might have to pay someone for scrolls or spellbooks (or by touching the casters themselves), which is where all your WBL goes, so it kind of evens out to being similar to poverty. But you wouldn't need money for the learning itself. And then if you can train everyone up as also being CStP erudites, they can learn from you fairly easily, and no money would have to be involved beyond maybe a small fee to keep you going.

[Crake]

Complete arcane has a whole slew of alternate spellbooks, one of which is structure based spellbooks, where structures themselves are inscribed with spells. If wizard of an academia all come to share the same “structure” as their spellbook, being the campus, they can each add their free levelup spells onto the campus engravings, adding to the repertoire of knowledge that the campus shares as a whole, which will all get passed down for free to the next wave of students.

Individual spellbooks are a luxury of the rich, but you dont need your own spellbook to learn.

[rel]

Easy bake wizard might be a good approach for this. Between not needing a spellbook and the number of extra spells you can potentially get access to just from leveling, you could include the regular vow of poverty into the build without much of a downside.

[Elvensilver]

If you are open to pathfinder content, how about bring the monetary prices of scribing spells down through adapting the spell Blood Money? ( https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blood%20Money )

The only concession you'r GM would have to make is that it is also usable for scribing spells into spellbooks. But using your blood as a substitute for magical ink seems really reasonable and the price scaling would fit. Maybe you still think the price is too low - but while 1d6 of damage and 1 point of strength damage might hardly matter for an adventurer, that's a different matter for the typical housewife (expert 1/wizard 1) with ca. 10 HP.

[wilphe]

that's not an issue, that's a plot hook :smallcool:

That's not so much a hook as several miles of baited longline


Also, there is prep time.

That's an hour a day.

How is that worth it to avoid doing the dishes?


So to recap:

Your character wants a world where housewives will spend an hour of their day preparing to perform a task magically that takes less than that to do by mundane means or you can pay people a trivial amount to do for you

This is not the Killer App that will get this project off the ground

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Also, there is prep time.

That's an hour a day.

How is that worth it to avoid doing the dishes?


So to recap:

Your character wants a world where housewives will spend an hour of their day preparing to perform a task magically that takes less than that to do by mundane means or you can pay people a trivial amount to do for you

This is not the Killer App that will get this project off the groundAnother benefit to the erudite idea is that it only takes 1 round of concentration instead of 1 hour each day. That's literally the length of a long, slow, deep breath, in and out.

[King of Nowhere]

Easy bake wizard might be a good approach for this. Between not needing a spellbook and the number of extra spells you can potentially get access to just from leveling, you could include the regular vow of poverty into the build without much of a downside.
what is an easy bake wizard?


That's not so much a hook as several miles of baited longline


Also, there is prep time.

That's an hour a day.

How is that worth it to avoid doing the dishes?


So to recap:

Your character wants a world where housewives will spend an hour of their day preparing to perform a task magically that takes less than that to do by mundane means or you can pay people a trivial amount to do for you

This is not the Killer App that will get this project off the ground
A single casting of prestidigitation lasts for one hour, and allows you to perform multiple chores that would require hours to do otherwise. And you need one hour to recover all of your spells; even at first level, you need like 15 minutes to recover a prestidigitation. So it is convenient.
furthermore, the dm is importing the 5e rule of unlimited cantrips, hence it wouldn't really be a problem. also, my character intends to research -1 level spells as dumbed down versions of prestidigitation accessible even to the intelligence-impaired.
And in any case, regardless of actual practicality, it does look cool. I mean, real people buy big expensive cars that have no practical advantages whatsoever over smaller cars, are harder to drive on small roads, harder to park, more expensive to maintain, and they do it all just to look cool. I am sure there are many people who would want to invite their friends over for dinner, then fip their fingers and have the soup stir itself, regardless of actual practicality

finally, just because it's my character's dream, it doesn't mean it will go exactly that way, or that it's possible or even desirable. In fact, I like my characters to blend a serious core with a silly charicaturized side. My other characters are a monk that after hearing all the "suffering makes you stronger" motivtionals started putting sandpaper in his pants, and an old fighter who learned a dispelling technique to apply to his attacks because "in my time we didn't have no fancy enchantments, and so those youngsters shouldn't have them either". This one is a wide-eyed idealist with unlimited faith in the useflness of magic and a very optimistic take on human nature, he fits with the others. I like them capable, but with some quirks.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

what is an easy bake wizard?https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12336.0

That's a handbook for it.

"The Easy Bake Wizard is a build that utilizes several ACFs, feats, racial substitutions and other options to create a Wizard that can function without a spellbook, can cast some spells spontaneously, and that can sometimes pass for a sorcerer."

[Maat Mons]

I’d be wary of using a Wizard’s free spells as a justification for people getting spells they otherwise couldn’t afford. I believe that was always meant to be an abstraction. New spells don’t instantly materialize in your spellbook when you level up any more than a spellbook materializes in your inventory when you take your first level of Wizard or an outfit worth 10 gp or less materializes on your body when you take your first class level. The cost is handwaived for expediency of gameplay, but in-universe, money was still spent.

I appreciate the desire to bring magic to the masses, but I think Wizard is among the worst-suited classes for the concept. I’ve toyed with the idea in Pathfinder, and never been completely happy with the results.

Arcanist: Requires inborn ability. Requires rare materials (inks for spellbook).
Cleric: Requires deific patron. Alignment restrictions. Behavioral restrictions.
Druid: Alignment restrictions. Behavioral restrictions.
Oracle: Requires deific patron.
Psychic: No issues.
Shaman: Requires rare materials (ritual components for familiar).
Shaman (Speaker for the Past): No issues.
Sorcerer: Requires inborn ability.
Witch: Requires supernatural patron. Requires rare materials (ritual components for familiar).
Wizard: Requires rare materials (inks for spellbook).

Sadly, no good Cha-based fullcaster without annoying restrictions. Mostly, I figure on Charismatically-inclined people being Summoners.

I’d just go for substituting xp for gp at the usual rate of 1 xp = 5 gp. Geometer reduces all spells to the same cost as a 1st-level spell, and Arcane Shorthand cuts that in half, maybe. I believe that works out to 25 gp = 5 xp per spell, regardless of level. Yes, that becomes a token cost, but other spellcasting classes don’t have to pay for their spells in the first place, so I don’t see reducing the price Wizards pay to a token amount as a bad thing.

[Prime32]

Some options I can think of

Be a cleric of a philosophy, selecting the Cloistered Cleric and Divine Magician ACFs, and choose the Spell domain to pick up anyspell.
Be a warmage, beguiler or dread necromancer - they learn spells through training like a wizard does, but don't need a spellbook.
Take the Sculpt Self feat from Dragon #304, which lets you apply powers to yourself by spending XP (similar to crafting a self-only slotless magic item, with 1 XP in place of every 5gp). It has a few variant rules, including one where anyone can gain these powers by spending XP even without the feat.

[Wintermoot]

Most of the posts so far have been pointing you to existing mechanics that SOMEWHAT but not completely meet your needs.

So let's talk about what I think you are actually doing here, which is homebrewing.

Your intention, as I understand it, is to "bring wizardry to the masses" but you don't want to just handwave away the rules including the "it takes 50gp to scribe a spell into a spellbook" rule.

You've talked about replacing the cost with another resource pool, but you are unsatisfied with the options. There aren't that many resource pools to tap into. Hit Points and XP and you've already dismissed those. Time is another pool, but you are not doing a combat centric game here, so time is a variable and, honestly for your purposes, unlimited resource. If you said "for every 5 gp you want to shave off the cost, you need to spend an additional day scribing the spell, then a housewife could... i dunno... crochet the spell into an afghan in 11 days instead of scribing it into a spellbook in one.

So let's skip that and look at what your character can do, within the rules or only by gently bending the rules.

The Library.

Your character could set up a library in the prototype town. This library would require a card to enter, but what they would find inside are the books needed to learn new spells and, most importantly, free-for-use spellbooks open and ready.

So your swarm of housewives would have to go to the library once every time they want to rememorize the spell and do that work there. Several could crowd around the book at a time, like a sewing circle and study off the same text simultaneously. So in this way your single 50gp spellbook page is being used by dozens of people who can pay you a nominal periodic fee for their library access, far less than what it would cost to have the spellbooks themselves, and within their available monies.

In this way you can attain your goal of bringing wizardry to the people without breaking the rules and without undue inconvenience.

Now, you will have to source in some security and such to make sure the fourth level band of adventurers don't decide your library is today's dungeon to exploit, but you are on your way.

[King of Nowhere]

Most of the posts so far have been pointing you to existing mechanics that SOMEWHAT but not completely meet your needs.

So let's talk about what I think you are actually doing here, which is homebrewing.

well, yes and no.
I am not shy about homebrewing, I've done it a lot in the past. I am already reworking the vow of povery to fit the character concept.
But! if there is some good option in the optional rules, I am going with that. or, i could at least use it as a start to homebrew.



Your intention, as I understand it, is to "bring wizardry to the masses" but you don't want to just handwave away the rules including the "it takes 50gp to scribe a spell into a spellbook" rule.

You've talked about replacing the cost with another resource pool, but you are unsatisfied with the options.
There aren't that many resource pools to tap into. Hit Points and XP and you've already dismissed those.


not completely. actually i'm looking at ideas, several of those listed here can be promising. even the xp/hp cost can be used.

have you ever looked for something without knowing what it was, only that you would recognize it when you found it? well, that's how I feel here. i don't know what i'm looking for exactly, I'm hoping something will spark an "eureka" moment. but if nothing sparks that eureka moment - sometimes when you don't know what you look for you find it, and sometimes you realize you are looking for an impossible ideal and you have to back down a bit - then several of the things posted already are workable.



The Library.

Your character could set up a library in the prototype town. This library would require a card to enter, but what they would find inside are the books needed to learn new spells and, most importantly, free-for-use spellbooks open and ready.

So your swarm of housewives would have to go to the library once every time they want to rememorize the spell and do that work there. Several could crowd around the book at a time, like a sewing circle and study off the same text simultaneously. So in this way your single 50gp spellbook page is being used by dozens of people who can pay you a nominal periodic fee for their library access, far less than what it would cost to have the spellbooks themselves, and within their available monies.

In this way you can attain your goal of bringing wizardry to the people without breaking the rules and without undue inconvenience.

Now, you will have to source in some security and such to make sure the fourth level band of adventurers don't decide your library is today's dungeon to exploit, but you are on your way.

yes, I already stated this was a possible idea in the original post. paying an xp cost, maatmons made a good argument that the cost would be bearable, so it's also a relevant option. paying hp, if it's a drain that cannot be healed for a few days, it would also be fine. i expect lots of downtime, but i also expect a combat-heavy campaign, so staying one week drained would incur some risk - and would also explain why most wizards prefer to just pay the money.
and I still haven't reviewed some other options mentioned.
all in all, I already have several good options. maybe i'll find an even better one, but I'm already happy.

I take this chance to thank everyone who contributed.
I also take this chance to congratulate everyone who contributed for not telling me I should not be pursuing my concept but should do something different instead; I fully expected to have to make use of the disclaimer I put in the end of the first post. you're awesome guys.

[daremetoidareyo]

Tattoos? Ink costs can be made with craft skills.

[Crake]

Your best bet would be finding a way to flood the market with the expensive inks such that theyre no longer expensive. The fabricate spell can create up to 2g,9s,9c worth of material per casting for free with eschew materials, but thats a lot of work for that.

On the other hand, if you created an everflowing ink jar, made it publicly accessible, where people could refill their inkwells with 100gp worth of exotic inks in a round, that would be 33gp 3sp 3cp worth of materials per fabricate casting, which you need to supply 100x for an at-will item, so 3,333gp, plus the 2000x9x5 for use activated at will fabricate.

That would cost you 48,333gp, and 3,600xp to be able to create 14,400 days worth of spellbook scribing materials each day if you just leave it running to fill receptacles. Assuming an entire metropolis of 25000 wizards, that would let them scribe spells 50% of the time (which, most likely they arent doing that 100% of the time anyway) and still have excess

Of course, problem with that is you may as well just create a post scarcity society, and boom youre at the tippyverse

[King of Nowhere]

For the "Vow of Middle Class", that sounds a lot like the Oath of Poverty (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/oaths#toc17) from Spheres of Power. Sets a much more reasonable limit and also lets you do stuff like "ride in a wagon".

on one hand, this looks very interesting. my only fear is that it may be too overpowered; it seems i can get all the boosts I need from just the oath points, and more. I'd still be weaker than with items, especially since our campaigns tend to have lots of loot, but all the important boosts would be covered, and I'd be immune to disjunction - and in our campaigns, disjunctions at high levels are used heavily. so i'll consult with the dm for that.
on the other hand, the organization is terrible. "renown"; from the fluff, it looks like a good fit for the character. so it says it's the same as the renown social talent for a vigilante. I search for vigilante, the search function does not work. I search then for classes, there is no such thing. eventually, going blindly i can find vigilante social talents, there is no renown among them. there are references to talents, but no explanation of what talents are. "you gain advanced magical gleaming as a bonus feat", i looked around the feat page and can't find it. a lot of that stuff is not compatible with 3.5 anyway

[Maat Mons]

Vigilante (https://www.aonprd.com/ClassDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vigilante)
Vigilante Talents (https://www.aonprd.com/VigilanteTalents.aspx)