[3.P] Con mod as DR rather than more hp?

[The Insanity]

I'm working on a set of houserules for remodeling the ability scores a bit and when I got to Con I had the idea of making Con mod give DR instead of bloating the hp. My question is, would that be better or worse than the default rules? If it's worse, would giving max hp from hd help?

[Maat Mons]

If everyone has DR, it make Two-Weapon Fighting an even worse strategy. Not sure if that bothers you.

[Biggus]

The main problem I can see is that it'd nerf martials but not casters. At mid-high levels DR would be considerably stronger than HPs against physical damage because it would apply multiple times per round, but offer no protection against magical damage.

Some questions:

What type of DR? DR/-?

Would it stack with DR from other sources?

[The Insanity]

If everyone has DR, it make Two-Weapon Fighting an even worse strategy. Not sure if that bothers you.
It does bother me. I have some houserules for TWF in mind, so it might not be an issue.


What type of DR? DR/-?

Would it stack with DR from other sources?
Yes and yes.

[Lemmy]

Some big monsters would have such high DR that it might make martials basically useless against them.

And what happens with creatures such as incorporeal undead, who get extra hp from Cha? Do they get massive DR too?

Honestly, I think this is one of those changes that would have A LOT of unintended consequences and probably seriously mess with CR.

[Biggus]

Some big monsters would have such high DR that it might make martials basically useless against them.

Well, not all martials. Highest non-ELH monster Con is 39 (+14) for the Titan as far as I know. DR 14/- would be a major handicap for 2WF, and for archers if the MIC isn't available (force bow ignores all DR) but 2HW users wouldn't be inhibited much by it.

[Ashtagon]

If you're going to make it grant DR, it should grant ER too.

[ngilop]

its a much, much worse trade off for anything wanting to be in the thick of a fight.

example.


I have a Con of 20 on my Fighter and he is level 11.


that is a total of 55 HP bonus. Plus my average of 65 HP for a total of 120 HP

if it is converted to DR i only get DR 5/-. doesn't mean much when i only have 65 HP now and things are hitting to be a threat for 100-ish HP at that level.

[Deepbluediver]

One thing that I don't think has been brought up is how it affects the use of in-combat healing. Normally in-combat healing is considered sub-optimal, because it's better to use your actions to burn down the enemy and then heal up afterwards, whereas using your actions to heal in-combat means the enemy is alive for more turns which leads to more damage overall. But of course this relies on your party have a big enough HP pool to tank several turns worth of attacks.

Changing the HP bonus to DR means that damage that previously had to be healed up (probably with magic but maybe also resting or items) now simply never happens. On the flip side though, you've got a much smaller margin of error to work with. In other words, staying at or near full health becomes much more important.
So while on the one hand you might need need full-strength max-level heals, it seems like SOMEONE who is capable of topping everyone else off every round is suddenly FAR more important to your party.

Overall, I'm not sold on this change, at least not standing alone. It's possible that with tweaks to other stats and weapon damage (to reduce the disparity between 2H and 2WF) it might be viable, and also the danger of getting 1-shot by anything with a decent CR, but that's getting more complicated than you've presented here.
That being said, I do like the idea of DR and think it should be used more and made easier for players to get ahold of. I recall there being a UA variant option that gave armor DR, but it was never used because it came at the tradeoff of AC, and most people didn't think it wasn't worth it (and they were probably right). But if you don't mind just straight-up boosting martial classes, keep armor's AC as it is in the base description and experiment with giving it different amounts of DR.

Alternatively alternatively, and this is getting really far off topic by anywho, you could homebrew some feats or special abilities that gave characters some kind of move or action that let them negate damage from a specific attack or spell. Use your reaction to reduce damage taken by twice your STR bonus, 3 times if you're wielding a 2H, etc etc etc.
That way it's something players have to actively choose when and where to use, instead of just being an always-on passive benefit.

[The Insanity]

Based on what I'm reading here I don't think I'm going to implement this houserule. I only considered it because I'm working on making "sub-attributes" which would allow me and my players to customize the stats of characters a bit more. Like for example Con could be "split" into Health (fortitude saves, stamina, etc.) and Durability (hp). I simply thought that DR would fit better as Durability than hp, but I guess it's not worth the trouble of changing everything else just to accommodate this small houserule.

[ngilop]

Oh, you going the 2nd ed Skills and Powers route with states. Thats cool.

they are as follows:
STRENGTH: Stamina & Muscle
DEXTERITY: Aim & Balance
CONSTITUTION: Health & Fitness
INTELLIGENCE: Reason & Knowledge
WISDOM: Intuition & Willpower
CHARISMA: Leadership & Appearance

[Beni-Kujaku]

In general, you don't take much more than a few hits in combat before falling. Even if we consider that the high-Con warrior is only hit by physical hits, Con mod as DR only equals Con as HP in overall durability after a number of hits equal to its HD. Which means the fighters' high Con has almost no relevance at high level. Which doesn't seem like a good design, and plays into the martial-caster divide.

[Ashtagon]

if it is converted to DR i only get DR 5/-. doesn't mean much when i only have 65 HP now and things are hitting to be a threat for 100-ish HP at that level.

Outside of theoretical cha-op listings, level-appropriate opponents for L11 PCs aren't hitting for 100 damage though.

There are good reasons not to implement this house rule, but this isn't it.