Potential balance issue

[SuperHavocGuru]

So one of my players wants a homebrew spell based on Yang Xiao Long's semblance from RWBY. This is the spell he came up with, but it feels potentially unbalanced.

Flames of Vengeance

5th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (A bit of phosphorus)
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute
Magical flames surround the user for the duration of the spell. Each time the user takes damage, the flames store it and begin to build in intensity. Until the end of the spell, the user may use a melee weapon/unarmed attack to return double damage converted into fire and force damage split evenly on a hit. If the spell ends without unleashing the built-up power, the damage will instead consume the user in a powerful explosion.


I'm curious what you guys think. In a way it feels a bit strong, but with it requiring concentration, it has a chance to be broken every time he gets hit. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it to be honest. Any feedback at all would be appreciated.

[Anymage]

What classes? I'm assuming wizard because it's always wizard, but it's worth asking.

I don't know what level I'd put it at, but something that requires wading into melee and can only build up a charge when it risks breaking has some sizeable drawbacks. In high op theory it could be broken. Get your saves high enough to autopass concentration checks, have allies wail on you with 20 damage attacks for a while, unleash massive pain on a baddie. If you're playing a more moderate game where wizards don't all start with fighter 1 for the con save and heavy armor proficiencies, the drawbacks keep it in hand.

[SuperHavocGuru]

The player in question is a sorcerer/fighter combo. I'm actually running kind of a high powered gestalt campaign right now, so the players are already a bit overpowered as it is. Not to mention that the player in question has War Caster, so it'll be hard for him to lose concentration on the spell.

Also, apologies for posting this in the wrong place.

[sandmote]

Magical flames surround the user for the duration of the spell. Each time the user takes damage, the flames store it and begin to build in intensity. Until the end of the spell, the user may use a melee weapon/unarmed attack to return double damage converted into fire and force damage split evenly on a hit. If the spell ends without unleashing the built-up power, the damage will instead consume the user in a powerful explosion.

I'm more worried about the wording, but if they're already on the front lines, this might be fine, especially at 5th level. Its certainly less flexible and less powerful than a paladin's smite. My only other note there is that a version of Armor of Agathys dealing fire damage instead of ice might be easier to manage during gameplay.

For the wording, maybe as follows?


"You create a ward of flame around yourself, which lasts for the duration, and begins with 0 points of damage stored. Each time you take damage, the ward stores an equal amount of damage.

When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack you can channel the ward's power into the attack. When you do so you deal bonus fire damage and bonus force damage to the target equal to the amount of damage stored within the ward (minimum of 0 points) and the damage stored within the ward is reduced to 0.

If you have any damage stored in the ward when the spell ends, you take fire damage and force damage both equal to the number of damage points stored in the ward when the spell ended (minimum of 0)."

I think the only mechanical changes there is to clarify what happens on subsequent attacks by the player and the quantify the damage dealt when it isn't "unleashed" in time?

[kazaryu]

So one of my players wants a homebrew spell based on Yang Xiao Long's semblance from RWBY. This is the spell he came up with, but it feels potentially unbalanced.

Flames of Vengeance

5th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (A bit of phosphorus)
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute
Magical flames surround the user for the duration of the spell. Each time the user takes damage, the flames store it and begin to build in intensity. Until the end of the spell, the user may use a melee weapon/unarmed attack to return double damage converted into fire and force damage split evenly on a hit. If the spell ends without unleashing the built-up power, the damage will instead consume the user in a powerful explosion.


I'm curious what you guys think. In a way it feels a bit strong, but with it requiring concentration, it has a chance to be broken every time he gets hit. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it to be honest. Any feedback at all would be appreciated.

im of the same mind as the others. this honestly seems kinda fine...the damage is gated by the fighter taking damage and the fact that it can implode is a major risk.

remember: the incapacitated condition automatically ends concentration. and dispel magic is another means of ending this early. im not suggesting you always hard CC the player when they use this spell. im not a fan of giving players cool things only to indirectly make them worthless like that. Im just mentioning that because...well if a spell or feature is going to be balanced by that type of cost....then it stands to reason that sometimes the player should be at risk of paying that cost. don't railroad it by any means. just keep in mind that damage isn't the only way to break concentration.

if you're still nervous about it, you can always give a qualified approval i.e. "it seems ok, but if it seems like its doing too much work we may need to nerf it later"

[SuperHavocGuru]

I do like the rewording so it's a bit more clear how it all works. I guess I'm just a bit worried about him being able to one-shot a boss with it, but I guess it would require taking some decent damage before hand. And if he does one-shot a boss, that's just how the game works. I appreciate all of the help with this.

I really enjoy letting my players have cool homebrew like this, so thanks a lot. I think I'm going to give it to him. If he manages to pull something insane with it, then so be it.

[Yakk]

This is a version with less accounting.

Flames of Vengeance

5th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (A bit of phosphorus)
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute
Magical flames surround yourself for the duration of the spell. When the spell is cast and at the start of each of each of your turns, they gain 1d8 fire die if you do not have one. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend any of your fire dice to deal additional fire damage.

Every time you takes damage, you gain an additional 1d8 fire die. If you ever have more than 10 dice the spell ends immediately. If the spell ends while you have fire dice, the dice deal damage to all creatures within a 30' radius explosion. All creatures must make a dexterity saving throw, and on success take half damage. The you may not make a saving throw against this damage, and are considered vulnerable to the damage. Resistance or immunity cannot reduce the damage you take from exploding in this way.

At higher levels: You gain an additional 1d8 fire damage die when you cast the spell and at the start of your turn if you do not have any for each slot higher than 5 you cast this spell with. In addition, the maximum number of dice you can have is equal to double the spell slot level.

[SuperHavocGuru]

Oh, that's a nice version of it. It's more in line with how the ability it's based off of works too. Thanks a lot for all the help. Honestly I'm not sure which version of it we're going to go with. I suppose I'll present the player with both of them and we can figure out which one works best for how he envisions it.