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View Full Version : Systemic analysis of top-10 other spells across levels



Anthrowhale
2023-12-10, 10:49 AM
This is the 3rd (see attacks (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?661892-Systemic-analysis-of-top-10-attack-spells-across-levels) and defenses (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?662260-Systemic-analysis-of-top-10-defense-spells-across-levels)) of top-10 spells per level (See 0 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?657743-Top-10-cantrips),1 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?657825-Top-10-level-1-spells-at-ECL2-amp-20),2 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?658094-Top-10-level-2-spells-at-ECL-4-amp-20),3 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?658251-Top-10-level-3-spells-at-ECL6-amp-20),4 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?658751-Top-10-level-4-spells-at-ECL-8-amp-20#post25846144),5 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?659463-Top-10-level-5-spells-at-ECL-10-amp-20),6 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?660156-Top-10-level-6-spells-at-ECL-12-amp-20),7 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?660357-Top-10-level-7-spells-at-ECL14-and-20),8 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?661013-Top-10-level-8-spells),9 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?661419-Top-10-level-9-spells#post25892758)) focused on the very broad category of other spells. Comments & thoughts are very welcome.

Accumulating the remaining "maybe drop" list across each of these analyses, we have:

L4@ECL20 Bloodfreeze Arrow is vulnerable to Heart of Water or any other Freedom of Movement source.
L4@ECL20 Fugue is vulnerable to Silence, an effect which is available much earlier.
L7@ECL20 Crown of Despair. This has line of sight range over the 30' range of Unearthly Beauty but is otherwise inferior in effect and scope.
L9 Ice Assassin. Searing Seed +other spells is pretty close to Ice Assassin in effect, with the primary remaining gap being targeting. The 'under command' element could potentially be achieved via Searing Seed with L9 Mindrape. Spell sharing could potentially be achieved via Shapechange[Symbiont].


Updates:
Added L7 Arcane Spellsurge
downgraded L7 Limited Wish to L14 only
downgraded Enhance Wildshape to a Polymorph alternative
downgrade Dweomer of Transference to ECL8 only
added in Sheltered Vitality.
downgraded Battlemagic perception (counterspell likely doesn't work)
Upgraded Anyspell for ECL20 as well.
Downgraded Heal to ECL12 only (at ECL20, other spells make you immune to or provide other means to remove conditions)
Added Heaven's Trumpet on the L6 list at ECL20
Dropped L1@ECL20 Skillful Moment (redundant with Surge of Fortune)
Upgraded Lesser Vigor to ECL20 as well (and dropped Faith Healing)


Removed from consideration:
Dimension Door (Heroics[Martial Study[Shadow Jaunt]] or Animate with the Spirit[Equinal] instead.)
Charm Monster (Suggestion instead for in-combat use or AwtS[Emprix] instead for out of combat use)
Dimension hop @ECL4. Use skills (for a jailbreak) or Alter Self+flight.

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L0 Message
L0 Detect magic
L0 Read magic
L0 Fire Eyes
L1@ECL20 Snowsight
L2 Linked Perception
L3@ECL20 Battlemagic Perception
L5 Contact Other Plane
L9 Teleport Through Time

This list is obviously mising L5 True Seeing. The short duration at lower levels leaves True Seeing difficult to have on when needed. Relying on a high spellcraft to reveal the existence (but not see through) illusions seems generally good. And it's available via items or Shapechange at higher levels.

The list is also missing L4 scrying. That could be a tough miss at ECL8 although Substitute Domain[Oracle] is available in many cases, Greater Anyspell[Scry] eventually in others, and Miracle[Greater Scrying] nails other applications. In general, the L4@ECL8 list is extremely tight.



L0 Ghost sound
L0 Prestidigitation
L1 Silent Image
L2 Alter Self
L4 Polymorph
L8 Polymorph Any Object
L9 Shapechange

Ghost Sound and Silent Image seem to provide good utility very early on while the polymorph line provides more substantive solutions.



L2 Obscuring Snow: 10' or more LoS
L3@ECL20 Nondetection infinite range scry
L9 Shapechange[Incorporeal form]

The combination of these works pretty well, although L2 Silence could add further in some circumstances. Silence is at least potentially available via Substitute Domain[Spell] or Anyspell[Silence].

We are missing Mindblank which protects against "information gathering by divination". Nondetection protects against "divination... against the warded creature" and protects the creatures items as well with a downside that there is a caster level check. Given that the big caster level boosters are on list the caster level check seems typically well-controlled.



L0 Mage Hand
L2@ECL4 Rope Trick
L3@ECL6 Shrink Item
L5 Telekinesis
L6@ECL12 Antimagic Field
L7@ECL20 Planar Bubble
L7 Control Weather
L8 Evil Weather
L9 Genesis
L9 Teleport Through Time

These spells are all highly unalike and have many different possible uses. Amongst things to consider, is L3 Shrink Item really neglectable at ECL20? ... probably. It's also available via Greater Anyspell[Shrink Item] if necessary and it can be made permanent.



These start out amazing (Alter Self) and become total game changers.
L2@ECL4 Alter Self
L4@ECL8 Polymorph
L4@ECL8 Enhance Wildshape
L8 Polymorph Any Object
L9 Shapechange

L4@ECL8 Enhance Wildshape stands out as questionable since it comes with a feat tax. The hour/level duration makes it very different from Polymorph... Nevertheless, it's tempting to drop because the feat tax is inconsistent with a transitorily useful spell.



L2@ECL20 Wraithstrike
L1 Nerveskitter
L2 Heroics[Improved Initiative]
L3 Primal Instinct
L5@ECL20 Surge of Fortune
L5 Power Leech

These are each pretty amazing. The weakest are probably the initiative boosters since they provide a flat bonus, but the value of going first is overwhelming at higher levels.



L1@ECL20 Improvisation
L1@ECL20 Loresong
L1@ECL20 Skillful moment
L8 Moment of Prescience

The only redundancy here is between L1@ECL20 Skillful Moment and Surge of Fortune. I'm tempted to keep it though due to the standard action for _any_ skill check and since there aren't many meaningful L1 spells at ECL20.



L2@ECL20 Suffer the Flesh // Win the caster level arms race.
L4@ECL20 Consumptive Field // Win the caster level arms race.
L4 Mindworms // add metamagic to spells.
L6 Shalantha's Delicate Disk // Store L5- spell for later use.
L7 Greater Consumptive Field // Win the caster level arms race.
L7 Energy Transformation Field // Fixed location Spell/SLA->fixed spell converter
L9 Astral Projection // allows duplication and repeated use of charged magic items.

Lucubration is the most obvious missing spell, but there are usually many alternatives like Uncanny Forethought or leaving a slot open and memorizing a spell.



L4@ECL8 Enhance Wildshape[Nilshai]: +standard/round
L4@ECL20 Celerity: Immediate->standard+daze
L5@ECL20 Alaunghaer's Triptych: swift+standard->3x staff spells 95% of the time
L5@ECL20 Unfettered Heroism: +feat => +standard/round
L5 Arcane Fusion: L4- spell+L1- spell
L6 Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability: +familiar => +L5- spell/round.
L6@ECL20 Eyes of the Oracle: +readied action
L6@ECL20 Contingency: +spell or via Contingency[Celericy] +standard+daze
L8 Greater Arcane Fusion: L7- spell+L4- spell
L9 Shapechange[Chronotyryn]: +full set of actions/round

The big missing spell here is L7 Arcane Spellsurge which transforms standard spell->swift spell and full-round spell->standard spell.

The spell-efficient action-granting spells are:
L4@ECL8 Enhance Wildshape[Nilshai]: +standard/round
L5@ECL20 Unfettered Heroism: +feat => +standard/round
L6 Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability: +familiar => +L5- spell/round.
L9 Shapechange[Chronotyryn]: +full set of actions/round

Arcane Spellsurge is nicely additive here, effectively granting an extra 1 or 2 (with Shapechange[Chronotyryn]) spells/round as long as you have +0 metamagic like Sanctum Spell.

The spell-inefficient action granting spells are:
L4@ECL20 Celerity: Immediate->standard+daze
L5@ECL20 Alaunghaer's Triptych: swift+standard->3x staff spells 95% of the time
L5 Arcane Fusion: L4- spell+L1- spell
L6@ECL20 Eyes of the Oracle: +readied action
L6@ECL20 Contingency: +spell or via Contingency[Celericy] +standard+daze
L8 Greater Arcane Fusion: L7- spell+L4- spell

Arcane Spellsurge helps here with Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion since you can add metamagic to spells. It also conflicts with Celerity and Triptych. Celerity is probably still worthwhile since it provides an action rather than a spell and since you can trigger it out of turn if necessary.

The conflict with Triptych is more significant since it grants 3 spells on your turn instead of 2. On the other hand, you can nova spells via GAF[Celerity,Celerity] at high level anyways, which suggests the real value of Triptych is being able to make a bigger nova off charges rather than spell slots.

Overall, it seems there's a case for Arcane Spellsurge although it is a spell that really requires a +0 metamagic feat to effectively utilize.



L2@ECL20 Substitute Domain: domain access
L2 Heroics: fighter feats
L3@ECL6 Anyspell: L2- arcane
L6 Greater Anyspell: L5- arcane
L7 Greater Shadow Conjuration: L6- wizard Conjuration[summoning] or Conjuration[creation] as standard action with only V,S components
L7 Limited Wish: L6- wizard, L5- any, 1 lower for prohibited, costs 300xp.
L9 Miracle: L8- cleric, L7- any

Looking to criticize:
(1) the loss of Anyspell at ECL20 is a bit painful---it means more expensive access to something like Sense Weakness.
(2) the xp cost of Limited Wish makes it a bit painful to use routinely. For non-routine use, Miracle is more capable. Hence, may Limited Wish at ECL20 is maybe not a thing?
(3) We lack:
(a) L4 Shadow Conjuration: L3- wizard Conjuration[summoning] or Conjuration[creation] as standard action with only V,S components. The L4 list is super-competitive and the only way to really exploit this is with L3 war spells which require a feat.
(b) L5 Shadow Evocation: L4- wizard Evocation. I'm not aware of a good L4- evocation spell already missing from the lists. We already have Wings of Flurry and Fireball.
(c) L8 Greater Shadow Evocation: L7- wizard Evocation. I'm not aware of a good L7- evocation spell already missing from the lists. We already have Contingency.
(d) L9 Shades: L8- wizard Conjuration[summoning] or Conjuration[creation] as standard action with only V,S components. Miracle already does L7- and I'm not aware of a particularly useful L8 uncovered spell.
(e) L9 Wish: L8- Wizard, L6- other, -1 level if prohibited. The XP cost here seems prohibitive for common use.



Body reuse:
L3@ECL6 Animate Dead
L4@ECL8 Animate with the Spirit. This seems to be a solid improvement on Animate Dead.

Alternate you:
L7@ECL14 Simulacrum: You (or others), but half level. Expensive.
L7 Body Outside Body: Multiple You under command, but no spellcasting.
L8 Project Multiple Images: Multiple you, but insubstantial and you can cast spells through them.
L8 Searing Seed: You (or others), with half-fiend and indifferent.
L9 Ice Assassin: You (or others), with spell sharing and under command. Expensive.
L9 Astral Projection: Duplicate you&items with your spirit.

BOB & PMI complement each other nicely. The closest thing to redundancy seems to be Searing Seed & Ice Assassin. Ice Assassin's 'under command' could potentially be achieved via Searing Seed with L9 Mindrape. Spell sharing could potentially be achieved via Shapechange[Symbiont].

Other minions:
L4@ECL8 Lesser Spirit Binding
L5@ECL10 Lesser Planar Binding
L6@ECL12 Spirit Binding
L6@ECL12 Planar Binding
L8 Greater Planar Binding
L9 Gate

The biggest flaw I see here is that we lose access to the Spirit Binding line at ECL20. However, Miracle[Spirit Binding] covers that use case reasonably well.



(Not including form-altering magic.)
L3@ECL6 Anyspell[Heroics[Martial Study[Shadow Jaunt]]] LOS+LOE 50'
L5@ECL10 Teleport 100 miles/caster level, some chance of failure.
L5 Plane Shift
L6 Gemjump: No error, no need to touch allies, any range to where you have a prepared gem.
L8 Mystic Shield. This is not a movement spell, but the ability to ignore Anticipate Teleportation is a great benefit to magical movement.
L9 Astral Projection
L9 Teleport Through Time

The above is a bit weak on tactical teleportation.
(a) L2@ECL4 Dimension Hop would allow you to bypass windows (but not walls since it has an LOS restriction).
(b) L4@ECL8 Dimension Door provides long range. The key issue here is just that L4@ECL8 is deeply contested.



Are we relying on feats to much?

Feats that magnifying effect:
Extend Spell: x2 duration, also available via a rod, prerequisiste for persistent spell.
Persistent Spell: up to x8640 duration. Throwing in a rod[Extend] is presumably cumulative.
Ocular Spell: x2 (or more, sort of), also enables persistent spell and chain spell. You cast up to 2 ocular spells that you later cast as a full-round action. Since you cast twice, it's possible to do something like Rod[Extend] Mindworms[Persistent] Rod[Chain] Mindworms[Ocular] <touch range buff> or Rod[Chain] Mindworms[Ocular] Rod[Maximize] Shivering Touch.
Sanctum Spell: x2 (sort of) and rod metamagic enabler.
(a) with Arcane spellsurge: cast an extra spell
(b) Cheaper metamagic rods. Rod[Maximize] Sanctum Wings of Flurry is almost 1/4 cost of Rod[Maximize] Wings of flurry and hence feasible after about ECL8. Similarly Rod[Chain] Sanctum Amber Sarcophagus can hit hard.

Wormbound: a feat that enables acccess to a spell (L4 Mindworms) which allows you to apply a metamagic feat for free. Most useful with Persistent Spell or Ocular Spell.

That's 5 of 7 feats. Other feats which seems pretty useful. Other mentioned things include:

Aberation Wildshape: Enables Wildshape[Nilshai] for an extra standard action/round or a number of strange vision modes. Since this is surpassed by Shapechange, you would want to use PHBII rules to retrain for something else at high levels.
Initiate of Mystra: Enables "I have magic and you don't" with L6 Antimagic Field and later L7 Planar Bubble[dead magic plane].
Wand Surge: Convert action points into free use of charged spell trigger item.
+ any feat prereqs for prestige classes. With Persistent Unfettered Heroism this is infinite spells/day.

Plausibly unreasonably feat-intensive spell use:
Arcane Thesis[Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion]. This avoids the primary weakness of Arcane Thesis and enables Twin Spell on AF or GAF.
Twin Spell. A doubler that can be mitigated to zero with Arcane Thesis, Sanctum Spell, Invisible Spell, and Cooperative Spell

SangoProduction
2023-12-11, 03:00 AM
Very nice list.
I think I'm going to bookmark this for the campaigns where I am not allowed spheres.

Anthrowhale
2023-12-17, 01:00 AM
Very nice list.
I think I'm going to bookmark this for the campaigns where I am not allowed spheres.
Thanks!

I finished a pass digesting and updating around various want-to-haves according to the below. I believe(?) we are set for spell choice for now unless someone comes up with other arguments. I'm planning to do one final thread analyzing/summarizing the spells.

Updates:
Added L7 Arcane Spellsurge
downgraded L7 Limited Wish to L14 only
downgraded Enhance Wildshape to a Polymorph alternative
downgrade Dweomer of Transference to ECL8 only
added in Sheltered Vitality.
downgraded Battlemagic perception (counterspell likely doesn't work)
Upgraded Anyspell for ECL20 as well.
Downgraded Heal to ECL12 only (at ECL20, other spells make you immune to or provide other means to remove conditions)
Added Heaven's Trumpet on the L6 list at ECL20

Removed from consideration:
Dimension Door (Heroics[Martial Study[Shadow Jaunt]] or Animate with the Spirit[Equinal] instead.)
Charm Monster (Suggestion instead for in-combat use or AwtS[Emprix] instead for out of combat use)
Dimension hop @ECL4. Use skills (for a jailbreak) or Alter Self+flight.