Crafting a MAgical Item with someone's help? Question

[incog64]

If you are crafting a magical item say Monks Belt which has a market value of $13,000 and would take 13 days to craft. If you don't have the spell Righteous Might, does the spellcaster casting Righteous Might have to be there all 13 days?

[GeoffWatson]

If you are crafting a magical item say Monks Belt which has a market value of $13,000 and would take 13 days to craft. If you don't have the spell Righteous Might, does the spellcaster casting Righteous Might have to be there all 13 days?

Yes. (10 characters)

[Biggus]

I can't find a definite answer anywhere, but looking at this...


A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites.

...if you have to cast a spell from an item you're using every day of the creation process, it certainly seems to suggest that another caster would need to be there every day as well.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites


Yes. (10 characters)

Do you have a citation for that?

[incog64]

I can't find a definite answer anywhere, but looking at this...



...if you have to cast a spell from an item you're using every day of the creation process, it certainly seems to suggest that another caster would need to be there every day as well.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites



Do you have a citation for that?

In DMG p 285 it says the following. This language is consistent for other item creation.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the
creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the
spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), must provide any material
components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs
required for the spells.The act of working on the armor triggers the
prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day
of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from
his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

In bold it references the spells not being available not that they have to be recast everyday. I don't have a strong position on this, just trying to get a consensus. I think the difference is casting from a item which has fixed charges versus a person which has infinite charges over time.

The more I think about the spell is an ingredient just like the other components and the components are fixed. So with the language above I'd lean to the spell caster only being their at the beginning or end.

[icefractal]

The more I think about the spell is an ingredient just like the other components and the components are fixed. So with the language above I'd lean to the spell caster only being their at the beginning or end.Funnily enough, "being an ingredient" makes me feel more like they'd need to be there the whole time.

The crafting materials certainly need to be there the whole time. While you could collect them all at the start of the process if you want, you couldn't leave them for the end, nor could you craft an item if you "owned" the materials from the start but weren't able to access them after the first day of crafting.

[Biggus]

In DMG p 285 it says the following. This language is consistent for other item creation.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the
creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the
spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), must provide any material
components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs
required for the spells.The act of working on the armor triggers the
prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day
of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from
his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

In bold it references the spells not being available not that they have to be recast everyday. I don't have a strong position on this, just trying to get a consensus. I think the difference is casting from a item which has fixed charges versus a person which has infinite charges over time.

The more I think about the spell is an ingredient just like the other components and the components are fixed. So with the language above I'd lean to the spell caster only being their at the beginning or end.

I'm really not seeing how you're getting from the spell having to be used every day of the item's creation to that meaning you only have to have it available at the beginning or end. In fact as far as I can see the section you've quoted strengthens the case that the other person would have to be there every day.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Magic Item Prerequisites (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites)

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

Creating Magic Items (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price, with a minimum of at least one day. Potions are an exception to this rule; they always take just one day to brew. The character must spend the gold and XP at the beginning of the construction process.

The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit.

A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used and XP spent on the under-construction item are wasted.

As you can see, the caster works for 8 hours each day on it. If you're casting spells as part of the item creation, you must be present and working on it the entire time.

[incog64]

Magic Item Prerequisites (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites)


Creating Magic Items (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)


As you can see, the caster works for 8 hours each day on it. If you're casting spells as part of the item creation, you must be present and working on it the entire time.

Working does not have to mean casting. In the base case, it assumes that its not a group project. How can you cast and create something without concentration checks and there are definitely no concentration requirements.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Working does not have to mean casting. In the base case, it assumes that its not a group project. How can you cast and create something without concentration checks and there are definitely no concentration requirements.

They don't show up, spend a standard action casting their spell at the unfinished item, and peace out. They must be there for eight hours each day, actively weaving the magic of their spell into that item, which expends the spell as if cast.

[JNAProductions]

If you are crafting a magical item say Monks Belt which has a market value of $13,000 and would take 13 days to craft. If you don't have the spell Righteous Might, does the spellcaster casting Righteous Might have to be there all 13 days?

As far as I read it, yes, they would need to be there.

[Chronos]

You can maybe argue that others on the item creation team, those who aren't contributing spells, might not need to be there all day (though you still need to establish some rule for how much time they need to be there). These helpers might be contributing the needed feat, or a requirement like "Must have X ranks in Y skill", or "Must be a dwarf". But the rule is clear that anyone who's contributing by providing a spell must be there for all the crafting time (8 hours a day).

[Satinavian]

Magic Item Prerequisites (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites)


Creating Magic Items (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)


As you can see, the caster works for 8 hours each day on it. If you're casting spells as part of the item creation, you must be present and working on it the entire time.
While i would say that the spell must be provided every day, i would allow to distribute the 8 hours between the collaborators like all the other requirements and costs. However i would not allow more than 8 hours per day put in, no matter how many people work together.

But i can see the other reading that each has to put up 8 hours a day as well.

What seems pretty obvious regardless ist that the person providing the spell has to be involved every single day.