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Ozreth
2023-12-12, 11:37 PM
I'm trying to solidify some simple house ruling for a handful of Greyhawk races and this is what I've cobbled up so far from disparate wiki articles, 3.0 rulebooks and some various setting material. I'm sure it needs critique as this isn't my strong suit but I want to add some race flavor to the GH game I'm gearing up. Most of the races will just be as PHB, but then there are these:

Grey Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in
Player’s Handbook.
Taller and grander in physical appearance than others of their race, gray elves have a reputation for being aloof and arrogant (even by elven standards). They have either silver hair and amber eyes or pale golden hair and violet eyes. They prefer clothing of white, silver, yellow, or gold, with cloaks of deep blue or purple.

Wood Elf: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Intelligence, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in Player’s Handbook.
Their hair color ranges from yellow to a coppery red, and they are more muscular than other elves. Their clothing is in dark shades of green and earth tones to better blend in with their natural surroundings.

Wild Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Strength. Alignment: Neutral. Base Movement: 35 ft. You do not start the game knowing the common tongue, only sylvan, but may add it as a bonus language if possible. Otherwise as Player’s Handbook.
Wild elves, as the name implies, dwell in isolated bands, nearly feral, shunning any contact with outsiders, even those of other elvish strains. As a wild elf, you will feel great unease around strangers, and will be completely unfamiliar with civilization and itsmany social restrictions.

Snow Elf: +2 Dexterity, +1 Constitution, -2 Charisma. Friend of Cold: You get a +1 bonus on all saving throws vs. cold-based damage. Otherwise as Elf Player’s Handbook
Snow elves are almost only found in the snowy Crystalmist Mountains, although a few tribes have made their way into the Barrier Peaks and the Jotens. There are unconfirmed rumors of snow elf tribes in the distant Griff and Corusk Mountains as well. They are close-knit and fairly isolated from the rest of elvish society, and are known for their scorn of “lowlanders” with the exception of the Valley elves (below) whom they find tolerable and occasionally admirable. They have an abiding hatred of drow that exceeds all the others of their race. They are taller than other elves (and most humans), but rail-thin, with white hair, tanned skin, and silver eyes.

Valley Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in Player’s Handbook.
Valley elves are an unusual elven subrace that are seldom seen outside the Valley of the Mage. Valley elves appear much like the grey elves, save that they are even taller. Some have ice blue eyes as well as the usual shades grey elves have. Their hair is pale yellow in the summer, darkening to a rich gold in the winter months. They dress in blues and greens, usually in garments that are loose and flowing.

Stout Hafling: +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength, Stonecunning as per Dwarf. +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal. Otherwise as Halfling in Player’s Handbook.
Based on Tolkien's Stoors. Shorter but broader than Hairfoot halflings, Stouts make good craftsmen. They have broad features and course hair. They can live 200 years or more.

Metastachydium
2023-12-13, 11:58 AM
I'm trying to solidify some simple house ruling for a handful of Greyhawk races and this is what I've cobbled up so far from disparate wiki articles, 3.0 rulebooks and some various setting material. I'm sure it needs critique as this isn't my strong suit but I want to add some race flavor to the GH game I'm gearing up. Most of the races will just be as PHB, but then there are these:

Grey Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in
Player’s Handbook.
Taller and grander in physical appearance than others of their race, gray elves have a reputation for being aloof and arrogant (even by elven standards). They have either silver hair and amber eyes or pale golden hair and violet eyes. They prefer clothing of white, silver, yellow, or gold, with cloaks of deep blue or purple.

Wood Elf: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Intelligence, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in Player’s Handbook.
Their hair color ranges from yellow to a coppery red, and they are more muscular than other elves. Their clothing is in dark shades of green and earth tones to better blend in with their natural surroundings.

These are just identical to the MM subraces of the same name, so… They are as fine as anything in the game, being official stuff and all that.


Wild Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Strength. Alignment: Neutral. Base Movement: 35 ft. You do not start the game knowing the common tongue, only sylvan, but may add it as a bonus language if possible. Otherwise as Player’s Handbook.
Wild elves, as the name implies, dwell in isolated bands, nearly feral, shunning any contact with outsiders, even those of other elvish strains. As a wild elf, you will feel great unease around strangers, and will be completely unfamiliar with civilization and itsmany social restrictions.


I know the standard Wild Elves in MM are nothing special, but I'd keep the balanced stat modifiers and ditch the weird +5 feet speed thing.


Snow Elf: +2 Dexterity, +1 Constitution, -2 Charisma. Friend of Cold: You get a +1 bonus on all saving throws vs. cold-based damage. Otherwise as Elf Player’s Handbook
Snow elves are almost only found in the snowy Crystalmist Mountains, although a few tribes have made their way into the Barrier Peaks and the Jotens. There are unconfirmed rumors of snow elf tribes in the distant Griff and Corusk Mountains as well. They are close-knit and fairly isolated from the rest of elvish society, and are known for their scorn of “lowlanders” with the exception of the Valley elves (below) whom they find tolerable and occasionally admirable. They have an abiding hatred of drow that exceeds all the others of their race. They are taller than other elves (and most humans), but rail-thin, with white hair, tanned skin, and silver eyes.


I'd say just use the Frostburn Snow Elf. They are already probably the Elves with the best ability modifiers (+2 DEX, -2 CHA) without that wonky +1 to CON.


Valley Elf: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength, –2 Constitution. Otherwise as Elf in Player’s Handbook.
Valley elves are an unusual elven subrace that are seldom seen outside the Valley of the Mage. Valley elves appear much like the grey elves, save that they are even taller. Some have ice blue eyes as well as the usual shades grey elves have. Their hair is pale yellow in the summer, darkening to a rich gold in the winter months. They dress in blues and greens, usually in garments that are loose and flowing.


I mean, the difference between these and Gray Elves is more cosmetic than that between Wild and Painted. Why bother?


Stout Hafling: +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength, Stonecunning as per Dwarf. +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal. Otherwise as Halfling in Player’s Handbook.

Eh, just use Deep Halfling stats they are Core and get Darkvision too, in exchange for the +2s to Climb/Jump/Move Silently of the base version.


They have broad features and course hair.

Did you mean: "they have broad features and, of course, hair"?

Tzardok
2023-12-13, 01:58 PM
An expert once told me about valley elves:


Valley elves are largely indistinct from high elves, with a couple of exceptions - they are taller, tall enough to easily pass for human; they disdain steeds other than horses; and their features, while marking them out to other elves (-2 circumstance penalty on Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate checks against other elves), are closer to those of a human (+4 to Disguise checks made to appear human).

Metastachydium
2023-12-13, 03:49 PM
Do you think I'll be punched if I go over to the Oddities thread and ask how they young females, like, speak?

Tzardok
2023-12-13, 04:00 PM
No, but only because black lightning would hurt more. :smallamused:

Ozreth
2023-12-14, 12:50 AM
I mean, the difference between these and Gray Elves is more cosmetic than that between Wild and Painted. Why bother?




I think this was a typo but not sure what you mean? And thanks for the other suggestions Im using them.

Tzardok
2023-12-14, 03:51 AM
I think this was a typo but not sure what you mean? And thanks for the other suggestions Im using them.

Meta's point is that your grey elves and your valley elves are statwise completely identical. All differences between them are purely cosmetic. The painted elves from Sandstorm at least have a different Favoured Class than the otherwise identical wild elves, so their difference is just mostly cosmetic.
There's a big difference between all cosmetic and mostly cosmetic. Mostly cosmetic is slightly rules-affecting. All cosmetic, well there's only one thing you can do... Go through his pockets and look for loose lore!

So he asks: why even treat them as a different subrace if there's nothing different about them.

Metastachydium
2023-12-14, 11:45 AM
No, but only because black lightning would hurt more. :smallamused:

[Imitates gulping, albeit very poorly.] Point taken.


There's a big difference between all cosmetic and mostly cosmetic. Mostly cosmetic is slightly rules-affecting. All cosmetic, well there's only one thing you can do... Go through his pockets and look for loose lore!

[Imitates snorting, far more convincingly.]


So he asks: why even treat them as a different subrace if there's nothing different about them.

I mean, I'm all for Moon Elves because they have fun looks, but even those are basically replacements for High Elves in the Realms, rather than a different subrace that does the same, so yeah.

Tzardok
2023-12-14, 01:10 PM
Well, to be fair, there's the precedent of hill dwarves and mountain dwarves: two Greyhawk races that are stats-wise completely identical. Something that slightly annoyed me from the moment I opened the MM for the first time.

Metastachydium
2023-12-15, 04:13 PM
Well, to be fair, there's the precedent of hill dwarves and mountain dwarves: two Greyhawk races that are stats-wise completely identical. Something that slightly annoyed me from the moment I opened the MM for the first time.

Talk about it. I started my career in 3.5 with access to the SRD only and spent an inordinate amount of time believing they have some actual reason to exist as a separate race and it's just not OGl material. Imagine my surprise when I first perused the actual book!