Help with a Large Volley Archer build

[pabelfly]

So, I'd like to do a volley archer build. The character would hopefully wield a Large Composite Longbow, and would make use of Knowledge Devotion. I'd like to spend up to 3 LA on race and templates. However, I'm having some trouble working how to do all I'd like to do. All first-party sources are on the table, including Dragon Magazine.

So what I'm looking for:

Large, or at least Powerful Build
High STR score
At least a +4 to INT, if not better
Positive modifier to DEX

My first thought is to go with an Eneko with Primordial, Lolth-Touched and White Dragonspawn templates. That would be LA 3, and gives 4/0/8/4/0/2. Not a bad start, but I think the board could do better.

So, what ideas do other people have?

Thanks in advance.

[Anthrowhale]

Primordial (Secret's of Xendrik) Half-Ogre (Dragon#313) Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (SS) is LA+0 with 3 monstrous human HD and grants +8/+4/+2/+2/+4/+2.

That's satisfying all desiderata except for Int+4. Options:
Voidmind template (LA+3, MMIII)
Phrenic template (LA+2, Psionics)
Deep template (LA+1, Dragon #306)

[holbita]

I'd like to suggest a goliath ranger going into peregrine runner.

If oriental adventures is allowed with a good enough tumble check you can move 10' and then full-attack, that should be enough to skirmish and turn those attacks into real damage.

[pabelfly]

I'd like to suggest a goliath ranger going into peregrine runner.

If oriental adventures is allowed with a good enough tumble check you can move 10' and then full-attack, that should be enough to skirmish and turn those attacks into real damage.

I already know what build I want to make, I'm just after the stats I listed to best make it work. If not, I'll have to make an alternate build.

A bit more research got me this:

Menta Cyclopean (0 LA) 0/-2/2/0/0/0
Primordial Giant (0 LA) -4/0/-2/4/0/4
Half-Minotaur (1 LA) 12/-2/2/-2/0/2
Deep (1LA) -2/0/0/2/0/0
Unseelie Fey (0 LA) -2/2/-2/0/0/2

Total: 2 LA, 4/-2/0/4/0/6

Still not quite hitting the mark though, even if it's only 2 LA, but it feels closer than my first attempt.

[Anthrowhale]

I already know what build I want to make, I'm just after the stats I listed to best make it work. If not, I'll have to make an alternate build.

A bit more research got me this:

Menta Cyclopean (0 LA) 0/-2/2/0/0/0
Primordial Giant (0 LA) -4/0/-2/4/0/4
Half-Minotaur (1 LA) 12/-2/2/-2/0/2
Deep (1LA) -2/0/0/2/0/0
Unseelie Fey (0 LA) -2/2/-2/0/0/2

Total: 2 LA, 4/-2/0/4/0/6

Still not quite hitting the mark though, even if it's only 2 LA, but it feels closer than my first attempt.

I believe Cyclopean is actually a humanoid? Dragon #323 describes them as "extremely tall humanoids" in the fluff and the stats don't say otherwise.

To avoid RHD, maybe:
Lesser Dust Para-Genasi (0LA) 0/+4/-2/+2/0/-2 //PGtF page 191+Dragon 297 page 64
Half-Ogre (1LA) +12/-2/4/-2/0/-2 //Dragon 313, giving large size and Giant Blood
Primordial (0 LA) -4/0/-2/4/0/4 //Secrets of Xendrik.

Giving: +8/+2/0/+4/0/0 + large size. Looks like it works?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cloistered Cleric/PrCs, Spell domain, Divine Metamagic: Persist, be an Outsider (Elf with the feat Otherworldly for +0 LA, among others). Use Greater Anyspell to cast DMM: Persistent Draconic Polymorph to turn into an Arrow Demon (MM3), and then cast DMM: Persistent righteous Might to be large size. Also include DMM: Persistent Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Greater Visage of the Deity, etc. You can trade your Cleric turn undead for rebuke dragons, which can still power divine feats, and dip Sacred Exorcist to have two pools of turning attempts to power DMM. Taking Extra Turning applies to both pools for +8 total, as would a Nightstick (get several if you're able to stack them, its effect isn't expressed as a bonus and it emulates a feat that specifically stacks with itself).

You'll get all of the Arrow Demon's extraordinary special attacks: Close combat shot, oversized weapons, symmetrical archery. Being large size you can wield huge bows! Plus the ability to fire two bows at once, both benefitting from iterative attacks, haste, rapid shot, etc. With just Draconic Polymorph, Divine Power, and Righteous Might you'll have Str 39, Dex 19, Con 33, and +5 natural armor. Use Greater Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment and a Monk's Belt, get a Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Con damage that occurs when that spell ends. Be sure to put Greater Magic Weapon on both of your bows, get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads (with the Bead of Smiting removed to make it cheaper if possible, use DMG pricing instead of the SRD) to use the Bead of Karma before casting your buffs every day.

[pabelfly]

I believe Cyclopean is actually a humanoid? Dragon #323 describes them as "extremely tall humanoids" in the fluff and the stats don't say otherwise.

There's no specifics about whether they're humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant. The text talks about how they descended from giants, speak Giant as a language, and repeatedly compares them to other giant types. But I can see your argument. Really, it's anyone's guess.


ITo avoid RHD, maybe:
Lesser Dust Para-Genasi (0LA) 0/+4/-2/+2/0/-2 //PGtF page 191+Dragon 297 page 64
Half-Ogre (1LA) +12/-2/4/-2/0/-2 //Dragon 313, giving large size and Giant Blood
Primordial (0 LA) -4/0/-2/4/0/4 //Secrets of Xendrik.

Giving: +8/+2/0/+4/0/0 + large size. Looks like it works?

Ooh, thanks. I'll see if the DM is happy with this.


Cloistered Cleric/PrCs, Spell domain, Divine Metamagic: Persist, be an Outsider (Elf with the feat Otherworldly for +0 LA, among others). Use Greater Anyspell to cast DMM: Persistent Draconic Polymorph to turn into an Arrow Demon (MM3), and then cast DMM: Persistent righteous Might to be large size. Also include DMM: Persistent Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Greater Visage of the Deity, etc. You can trade your Cleric turn undead for rebuke dragons, which can still power divine feats, and dip Sacred Exorcist to have two pools of turning attempts to power DMM. Taking Extra Turning applies to both pools for +8 total, as would a Nightstick (get several if you're able to stack them, its effect isn't expressed as a bonus and it emulates a feat that specifically stacks with itself).

You'll get all of the Arrow Demon's extraordinary special attacks: Close combat shot, oversized weapons, symmetrical archery. Being large size you can wield huge bows! Plus the ability to fire two bows at once, both benefitting from iterative attacks, haste, rapid shot, etc. With just Draconic Polymorph, Divine Power, and Righteous Might you'll have Str 39, Dex 19, Con 33, and +5 natural armor. Use Greater Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment and a Monk's Belt, get a Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Con damage that occurs when that spell ends. Be sure to put Greater Magic Weapon on both of your bows, get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads (with the Bead of Smiting removed to make it cheaper if possible, use DMG pricing instead of the SRD) to use the Bead of Karma before casting your buffs every day.

Body swap shenanigans is probably a bit too powerful for me, but thanks for the suggestion.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Body swap shenanigans is probably a bit too powerful for me, but thanks for the suggestion.

Pretty much every arcane gish build, as well as druids, will use polymorph or similar to turn into a more effective form for combat. It's a lot more efficient than spending LA or something, plus you can dismiss it and be a normal member of society, fit into cramped dungeons, etc.

I forgot to mention the feat Zen Archery for that build, so you can use Wis instead of Dex for your ranged attack rolls. Honestly, that's probably the most powerful practical archer build in 3.5 edition. And it does use huge size bows when large size, or large size bows when medium.

[H_H_F_F]

In the vain of Arrow-Demon-Zen-Archer, but without the perma-morph cheese, there's this build by Piggy Knowles. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?584417-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Zen-in-the-Art-of-Archery) Still very reliant on magic to do its thing, but less cheesy and more synergistic than the cleric route.