Spirit Shaman: Sandshaper and Domains

[Fero]

I have two questions for the community:

1. What happens if a Spirit Shaman (CD) takes a level of Sandshaper (using Doutjern Magician or something else to qualif

2. What happens if a Spirit Shaman gets a domain?

In both cases, I am trying to determine how new spells known applies to the Spirit Shaman's retrieval mechanic. Thank you all for any insights.

[Paragon]

1. If you get around the arcane/divine problem (I'd say Alternate Source Spell is your best bet) then since spells end up on its spell list, the SS can learn them in the morning as normal

2. The rule for classes getting a domain that are not cleric is p20 or 22 in CD. Basically you get spells to your spell list iirc

[Darg]

I have two questions for the community:

1. What happens if a Spirit Shaman (CD) takes a level of Sandshaper (using Doutjern Magician or something else to qualif

2. What happens if a Spirit Shaman gets a domain?

In both cases, I am trying to determine how new spells known applies to the Spirit Shaman's retrieval mechanic. Thank you all for any insights.

1. Sandshaper adds to all spells known you have as long as you qualify for the PrC. Due to the unique way spirit shaman knows spells, this drastically increases the number of spells retrieved you can have at any one time. It's up to your DM if you can swap the sandshaper spells out for other spells. Extra spell is also an outsized benefit because of this unique aspect. Because you qualify for sandshaper, the Arcane Preparation feat is quite useful to prepare spells when you swap spells retrieved to increase your daily versatility.

2. They can retrieve the domain spells just like they could from their normal list. Spells known for spirit shaman are those retrieved for the day.

[Fero]

Thank you all for the insights (and sorry about the typos).

Do you happen to know if there is an explicit ruling for how domains apply to Spirit Shaman? I feel like CD should have something on point but I can't seem to find it.

[Darg]

Thank you all for the insights (and sorry about the typos).

Do you happen to know if there is an explicit ruling for how domains apply to Spirit Shaman? I feel like CD should have something on point but I can't seem to find it.

As Paragon pointed out, the relevant rules are found on page 20 of CD.


If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell.

Spirit shaman know the spells they retrieve on any particular day. Thus every day they can select either their class spells or their domain spells to be retrieved.

[thorr-kan]

Spirit shaman know the spells they retrieve on any particular day. Thus every day they can select either their class spells or their domain spells to be retrieved.
Or any combo thereof, just to be a pedant. ETA: Domain spells would give a Spirit Shaman some nice uniqueness.

Spirit Shaman has an interesting spell mechanic. I wish more had been done with it.

[Fero]

As Paragon pointed out, the relevant rules are found on page 20 of CD.



Spirit shaman know the spells they retrieve on any particular day. Thus every day they can select either their class spells or their domain spells to be retrieved.

Ah, I did not see anything on the page specific to spirit shaman. I will check again. Is the distinction that sandshaper adds spells known and domains spells are not spells "known" but rather their own distinct thing?

[Paragon]

Ah, I did not see anything on the page specific to spirit shaman. I will check again. Is the distinction that sandshaper adds spells known and domains spells are not spells "known" but rather their own distinct thing?

There, sadly, is no love for the SS specifically. The relevant bits of the p20 of CD are :


If a noncleric enters a prestige class that allows access to a domain, the character still gains access to the domain. She can use the granted power bestowed by the domain normally

and


. If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell. A sorcerer does not get to exceed his normal limit of spells known. Once the domain spell is known, the sorcerer may cast it freely. (which I think someone quoted before)

This is it. You have to make due with this bit of text and adapt it to your situation

[thorr-kan]

there, sadly, is no love for the ss specifically. The relevant bits of the p20 of cd are:


if a noncleric enters a prestige class that allows access to a domain, the character still gains access to the domain. She can use the granted power bestowed by the domain normally
and


if the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell. A sorcerer does not get to exceed his normal limit of spells known. Once the domain spell is known, the sorcerer may cast it freely.
(which i think someone quoted before)

This is it. You have to make due with this bit of text and adapt it to your situation
I believe the logic flows as follows:
1. Spirit Shaman is a noncleric.
2. Domain spells are added to the noncleric's class's spell list.
3. Spirit Shaman is a spontaneous caster.
4. Spirit Shaman's spells known *that day* are whatever spells were retrieved *that day.* (emphasis mine)
5. Therefore, as Domain spells have been added to the class's spell list, Domain spells may be retrieved and are spells known for that day.
6. QED.
7. PROFIT!

Additional flexibility for a Spirit Shaman can be gained through other methods as well:
1. Reserve feats: retrieve a spell that powers the reserve feat.
2. Spontaneous Healer or Summoner feats (CompDiv): retrieve an appopriate low-level spell; higher-level spells can now be spontaneously converted. (There are other similar feats that escape my memory right now.)
3. Domain access implies the ability to trade said access for a Domain feat. YMMV.

I like Spirit Shaman because it reminds me of the 2E Sha'ir wizard kit from Al-Qadim. But my prejudices in that arena are for another topic.

[Darg]

Is the distinction that sandshaper adds spells known and domains spells are not spells "known" but rather their own distinct thing?

It's an important distinction. A spirit shaman's spells known IS their retrieved spells. Adding domains does not increase your spells known and rather allows you to select/learn spells known as normal for the class. For the SS this means when they retrieve spells. Sandshaper however is unique because it doesn't just add the spells to your spell list, it adds the spells as spells you know. For a SS this means they are added to their retrieved spells and are freely able to be cast as normal for any other SS retrieved spell. Swapping out your new "retrieved" sandshaper spells for SS spells, however, is a contention point though. Personally I wouldn't allow it because the logic of allowing it has faults just like the infinite feat "loophole" otyugh hole and the dark chaos shuffle does.