Can SLAs be used during Rage after all?

[Inevitability]

The consensus seems to be that Spell-Like Abilities run afoul of this rule:


While raging, a barbarian cannot [...] any abilities that require patience or concentration.

This is a fine argument: it's not exactly hard RAW, but it had me convinced until quite recently.

But then I came across Five Nations' Madborn template (page 137), which notably has the following two traits:


Special Attacks: A madborn retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following special attacks:

Rage (Ex): A madborn is constantly in a state of rage similar to a barbarian’s rage. In this state, the madborn gains a +4 bonus to its Strength and Constitution scores, a +2 bonus on Will saves, and a –2 penalty to Armor Class. An effect that counters rage, such as the calm emotions spell, temporarily suppresses this ability and negates these bonuses and penalties.

Psionics (Sp): At will—cause fear, daze monster, expeditious retreat, lesser confusion. Save DCs are Charisma-based. Caster level equals the madborn’s Hit Dice.

That's always-on rage! Coupled with spell-like psionics! Quite odd to see if one of those is supposed to prevent use of the other, right?

If the 'no SLAs in rage' rule had been explicitly written down somewhere, I'd dismiss the madborn template as yet another example of bad WotC editing. But it isn't: we've been relying on inferred rules from suggestive examples all this time. If presented with a seeming clear-cut case of a creature that can use SLAs while raging, shouldn't we reconsider our assumptions?

[Chronos]

I think that's just specific trumps general. The Madborn, specifically, using its special always-on rage, can use spell-like abilities. Note that the Madborn description also doesn't specify that their always-on rage interferes with spellcasting: To the extent that's there at all, it would just be by inheritance from "similar to a barbarian's rage".

[Ashtagon]

I think people are reading too much into the phrase "similar to".

Cats are similar to dogs, in that they are both carnivores with fur and give birth to live young. But they aren't the same as dogs.


Similarly (sic), a madborn's rage is similar to, but not the same as, a barbarian's rage.

[Daisy]

Do SLAs require patience and/or concentration? Most SLAs are triggered simply by willing them to happen. If a raging barbarian can draw an arrow, nock it to a bowstring, aim at a moving target and loose, all in about 3 seconds, maybe triggering an SLA with no on-going duration isn't beyond them either. As a DM I'd rule it allowable in most instances (Warlock invocations, for example, are SLAs requiring somatic components, so in that instance I'd rule against).

[pabelfly]

Do SLAs require patience and/or concentration? Most SLAs are triggered simply by willing them to happen. If a raging barbarian can draw an arrow, nock it to a bowstring, aim at a moving target and loose, all in about 3 seconds, maybe triggering an SLA with no on-going duration isn't beyond them either. As a DM I'd rule it allowable in most instances (Warlock invocations, for example, are SLAs requiring somatic components, so in that instance I'd rule against).

Most SLAs require a standard action to activate, I'd say you can't activate them while raging without a special ability or the like to help, although there doesn't appear to be an explicit RAW rule as to how the two interact.

[holbita]

Do SLAs require patience and/or concentration? Most SLAs are triggered simply by willing them to happen. If a raging barbarian can draw an arrow, nock it to a bowstring, aim at a moving target and loose, all in about 3 seconds, maybe triggering an SLA with no on-going duration isn't beyond them either. As a DM I'd rule it allowable in most instances (Warlock invocations, for example, are SLAs requiring somatic components, so in that instance I'd rule against).

They do, unlike other abilities they can be interrupted and then you would require a concentration check same way that you would need for a spell.

What needs to be pointed out here is that the madborn template is a rage effect that lacks the restriction on concentration. There are a few more that work that way. For example, a Half-Orc Paladin (Races of Destiny) gets "Righteous Fury (Ex): A half-orc paladin can fly into a fury of righteous fervor once per day, dealing powerful blows to his enemies." This is also a rage-like ability that does not have the concentration restriction.

Or at least that's how we have always understood the rage-like abilities. Truth is, what is considered a rage-like ability is never specified, so for sure the madborn does not come with the restriction, that's 100% accurate (even though I can see most people adding it to it as it sounds like it should be expected to be there)... but there could also be a DM that says that a madborn rage is not a rage-ability... because those are not defined properly anywhere so it's up to them.

Personally, any kind of ability that mentions rage, frenzy, anger, etc. I will tend to say they are rage-like abilities and allow you to use them for feats and prereqs, but you should always check this part with your DM.

[ShurikVch]

Some more ways to use SLAs during Rage:

Torque of Lucid Raging (Dungeon #126)

This magic item only aids characters with the rage extraordinary ability. Those that rage while wearing this item are not restricted in the use of skills, feats, or abilities they possess. Thus, a barbarian who rages while wearing a torque of lucid raging can use all skills, any feat, and any ability requiring patience or concentration, as well as can cast any spell and activate any magic item (as long as he possesses such skills, feats, or abilities) as if he were not raging. A torque of lucid raging uses the same space as a magic necklace.
9,000 gp

Capstone of the Warband Leader PrC (Fury in the Wastelands)

At 10th level, the warband leader has developed such an intuitive battle sense that he can use any class abilities, skills, or feats while raging. This supersedes the normal restrictions on using skills or abilities which require concentration while raging.

Rage Casting feat (Dragon #310): while it don't directly mentioned SLA, it allows to cast spells and using items with spell trigger/spell completion/command word. (To allow it - but not SLA? Really?..)

Tainted Raver template (Heroes of Horror) grants the Perpetual Rage SA "Unlike a barbarian's rage, a tainted raver's perpetual fury does not prevent it from taking actions that require reasoned thought or concentration. A tainted raver can cast spells, use skills, activate magic items, and even act calmly and rationally. It retains at least some modicum of tactical and rational thought, although its madness can cause it to act on those thoughts in an unpredictable manner."
Although Tainted Raver template "by itself" is unplayable (LA: --), it can be combined via Tauric Creature template - thus, resulting creature should get benefits of Perpetual Rage while staying relatively playable (if we considering LA +3 and whatever racial HD it got as "playable")

Aleam Valassar, Paladin Assassin (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031215125/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060609a) logic: one mind is raging, another one - casting?..

Vestigial Twin - the unique NPC ability (Dungeon Master's Guide II) "can take an additional standard action independent of the actions taken by the rest of the body", and explicitly allowed to use SLA; but LA +5 :smallsigh:

[glass]

Most SLAs require a standard action to activate, I'd say you can't activate them while raging without a special ability or the like to help, although there doesn't appear to be an explicit RAW rule as to how the two interact.The standard action doesn't seem to matter. What does matter is that SLA are like spells except...and can be used while raging is not one of the exceptions listed or necessarily implied.

Ergo, barring additional flange, a barbarian cannot use SLAs while raging (a Madborn apparently can, because their version of Rage says nothing about not casting spells).

[Crake]

Do SLAs require patience and/or concentration?

SLAs provoke an attack of opportunity, implying that activating them requires enough focus on them that it lowers your guard, and being hit while casting an SLA triggers a concentration check, which further reinforces the fact that SLAs require concentration to cast.

SLAs also require concentration to use in a grapple, or in bad weather, or when on an unstable surface, such as a turbulent ship, or in an earthquake