To Fall and Rise Again [PF2E, 20th level]

[Infernally Clay]

You are the greatest heroes the world has ever known. You protected the Kingdom of Thessela from the Migration of Dragons, stood firm against the Usurper Lord of the Archfey and his Army of Nightmares and the Battle of the Sunless Noon will be sung about for centuries by every Bard in every corner of the world.

However your greatest threat yet looms. A powerful demon called Zerkuul, possibly the most powerful demon of them all, is on the cusp of ascension to godhood, and the ritual to complete the final transformation is taking place in the forest of Myrkviethr. You must stop him before it's too late or it won't just be the people of this world at risk but the very gods they worship too. Breaching Myrkviethr has been immensely difficult, with the forest itself impeding you at every turn as you are hounded by the many forces that seek to ensure Zerkuul's ascension. Your close allies, those who you have helped in the past, have rallied to your side and you have seen all too many of them claimed by this dark forest already. A final gift from the Archfey Lord you helped has rejuvenated you, preparing you for the last battle ahead.

Yet now, in the deepest grove of the Myrkviethr, Zerkuul welcomes you.
Can you stop him or is all of creation doomed to fall?

The gist of this game is simple. We will start with a single battle, jump right into it in fact, at the highest standard level of play in Pathfinder 2E. If the players have stuck around to the end of the fight, and given retention rates in games around here that isn't necessarily a guarantee, the story will continue. I won't say how it does but hopefully it'll be pretty exciting for everyone involved.

System: Pathfinder 2E
Player Count: 5
Style of Play: For now it's just one big boss fight, but who knows?
Allowed Content: Anything found on the Archives of Nethys (https://2e.aonprd.com/Default.aspx) is fair game. If it isn't on there it isn't allowed.

Character Creation: Mythweavers preferred
Backstory: I don't need a whole lot of information, motivations and personality are really the most important things I want to learn about your character, but I do want one thing in particular - your character is one of the greatest heroes the world has ever known and will ever know, so tell me about one thing they did that they will be remembered for forever.
Experience: 20th level
Wealth: You have one 20th level item, one 19th level item, two 18th level items, one 17th level item, one 16th level item and 20'000gp to play with.
Ability Scores: Standard as per the rules.
Hit Points: Standard as per the rules.
Alignment: No evil or chaotic stupid, please.
Deadline: This will take a lot of work and the holidays are upon us so let's say... January 5th. If people need more time after that we can discuss it then.

[Thunder999]

Well this looks awesome and I already have an idea for a suitable achievement, so count me interested.

[Zero Prime]

I'm down, Fighter or Champion, for sure!

Now if I could convince you to use Free Archetype ... I'd celebrate an early Christmas! Not necessary but it never hurts to ask!

[Triskavanski]

Alright! I wanna try this jazz so lets make it glow!

[droobles]

Could we have the free archetype option?

[Chambers]

I've never played PF2e before so this'll be my first time making a character with the system, but I'm game.

[Infernally Clay]

I'm down, Fighter or Champion, for sure!

Now if I could convince you to use Free Archetype ... I'd celebrate an early Christmas! Not necessary but it never hurts to ask!


Could we have the free archetype option?

There won't be a free archetype yet. I have a plan for that later, if we get past this first fight.

[Talivan]

Interested in this game, will need to learn PF2e

[Zero Prime]

So I have the basics of the build worked out, an elf fighter, with champion dedication using a breaching pike & shield. However, the itemization is a concern, since I need a Sturdy Shield (Lvl 19), a Potency Rune & Striking Rune for my Spear (lvl 16 & 19 respectively), a Holy & Frost Rune (lvl 14 & 15), as well as Potency & Resilience runes for my Full Plate (lvl 18 & 20). That's **just** weapons and armor, without an Apex item or anything else. Sure I could grab a Flametongue or something similar, but that forces me to use a long sword over my preferred weapon.

Now standard PF2E WBL (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=587) for 20th level is a 19th level item, 2 18th level items, 1 17th level item, and 2 16th level items **plus** 20k gold, or a lump sum value of 112k. If we go by that I think it would allow those with the need for specific, or varied gear, more opportunity to customize their gear load.

I will post a sheet on Tuesday, but just something to think about ...

Now I hope you all enjoy the coming Holiday season and have a safe & wonderful Christmas!

[Infernally Clay]

So I have the basics of the build worked out, an elf fighter, with champion dedication using a breaching pike & shield. However, the itemization is a concern, since I need a Sturdy Shield (Lvl 19), a Potency Rune & Striking Rune for my Spear (lvl 16 & 19 respectively), a Holy & Frost Rune (lvl 14 & 15), as well as Potency & Resilience runes for my Full Plate (lvl 18 & 20). That's **just** weapons and armor, without an Apex item or anything else. Sure I could grab a Flametongue or something similar, but that forces me to use a long sword over my preferred weapon.

Now standard PF2E WBL (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=587) for 20th level is a 19th level item, 2 18th level items, 1 17th level item, and 2 16th level items **plus** 20k gold, or a lump sum value of 112k. If we go by that I think it would allow those with the need for specific, or varied gear, more opportunity to customize their gear load.

I will post a sheet on Tuesday, but just something to think about ...

Now I hope you all enjoy the coming Holiday season and have a safe & wonderful Christmas!

I must have misread the page. Everyone does indeed get a second 18th level item, so thanks for pointing that out. I only intended to replace one of the 16th level items with a 20th level item to give everyone a little more to play with. I've updated the OP to reflect that.

Even so, you're asking for a level 20 item, two level 19 items and one item each of level 18, level 16, level 15 and level 14. The 20'000 gold everyone gets will easily cover the Holy and Frost runes and Weapon Potency you want because they come to 16'835 gold altogether. That leaves you with an item of level 18, 17 and 16 to choose.

You will, however, need to pick between the Sturdy Shield or the Major Striking Rune because they're both level 19 items and they'd cost 71'065 gold together. Indeed, with the Major Resilient Rune, that's 120'505 gold just for those three things and that is of course already quite a bit higher than the 112'000 gold you could start with instead of the items of specific levels I noted.

[Chambers]

Holy cow there are tons of feats. Decided against trying to make a 20th level Wizard as my first ever PF2e character and am instead trying to keep it simple with a Rogue.

What kind of magic items should I look for if I'm planning on being in an animal form (claw attacks) during combat?

Also, how do you increase your proficiency with claws? I'm using the Animal Shape (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2498) feat to transform but as far as I can tell I'm only 'trained' in the claws. Does increased proficiency (I don't even know if that's right term to use) with unarmed attacks apply to the natural weapons gained from Animal Shape?

[Triskavanski]

Luckily animal shape gives you "Unarmed" attacks. So anything that increase your unarmed prof would improve unarmed attacks granted by the battleform.

[Zero Prime]

Not entirely true. Each animal form you have has an attack trait associated with it, you can use that, instead of your base attack check, which is strength based unless otherwise noted. However you do have the option of using your own attack check, with an additional +2, however due to the Polymorph trait on Wildshape you can't benefit from item bonuses, such as Potency Runes, only Status and Circumstance bonuses.

If new to Pathfinder 2e, I **highly** suggest getting Pathbuilder, even the free version is a godsend.

[Chambers]

If new to Pathfinder 2e, I **highly** suggest getting Pathbuilder, even the free version is a godsend.

Thanks for the suggestion, that helped a lot. Here's what I've got so far. (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2864955)

[Infernally Clay]

Thanks for the suggestion, that helped a lot. Here's what I've got so far. (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2864955)

You weren't kidding about all the feats. :D

[Chambers]

Yeah it seems everything is about customization via feats. Sorta neat, but a lot to look through.

Regarding Animal Form, it looks like there's a hotly contested debate on what additional damage a character is allowed to do while polymorphed. Do all, none, or some of these effects apply to my claw attacks in animal form?


Sneak Attack damage.
Weapon Specialization damage.
Fire damage from a Flaming run on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.
Potency (?) item bonus on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.
Additional damage dice from Striking rune on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.

[Infernally Clay]

Yeah it seems everything is about customization via feats. Sorta neat, but a lot to look through.

Regarding Animal Form, it looks like there's a hotly contested debate on what additional damage a character is allowed to do while polymorphed. Do all, none, or some of these effects apply to my claw attacks in animal form?


Sneak Attack damage.
Weapon Specialization damage.
Fire damage from a Flaming run on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.
Potency (?) item bonus on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.
Additional damage dice from Striking rune on Handwraps of Mighty Blows.


Animal Form is a polymorph spell so all the passive effects of your Handwraps will still function, but the Striking rune does not grant additional dice. It grants a fixed number. This is an important distinction because, when heightened to fifth level, Animal Form says "double the number of damage dice" so both it and the Major Striking rune will give you four weapon dice separately but not eight together. If that makes sense.

Similarly, I'm not entirely sure about Weapon Specialisation. It says if, for example, you're a master you add +6 damage to weapon attacks of that type, but Animal Form says you're only trained with the "melee attacks specific to the battle form you choose". That does suggest you don't get the damage bonus because, while you are a master of unarmed attacks, you're a master of using normal people hands in combat not animal claws.

Everything else is fine, though. Since the Handwraps do indeed still function while you're in Animal Form, I see no reason to complicate things. So sneak attack, weapon potency and the flaming rune will all work.

[Bobthewizard]

I'm interested. Planning to make a 6 element kineticist.

[Zero Prime]

I've got two games on the go here, two more on another board and a third I'm preparing to run. With the Holidays winding down they'll like all ramp up so, as interesting as a 20th level combat teat would be, I think I'll bow out so I don't over commit.

Good luck, and get that BBEG! Get him good!

[redfeline]

I will try this.

[Bobthewizard]

I've only played PF2e at low levels with hardly any magic items. For a kineticist, is this a decent collection of magic items at level 20?

20 - Major Resilient Armor (I read the rules as the resilient and potency runes count as one 20th level item. If I'm wrong, I'd get rid of the Shadowmist Cape)
19 - Shadowmist Cape
18 - Emberheart
18 - Belt of Regeneration (17)
17 - Gate Attenuator (Major)
16 - Advancing Rune

Purchased
3750 Soaring Rune 14
6500 Antimagic Rune 15
4000 Eye of the Unseen 14
2800 Wyrm on the Wing - Greater Acid 13
2800 Wyrm on the Wing - Greater Electricity 13

[redfeline]

Well sense our warrior dropped out, I guess I will do that. Having rolled the dice say Monk over barbarian. Maybe a halfling.

[Nishai]

Oh, this is the perfect place for a dragon rider summoner I thought up a while ago. No awkward baby dragon phase just right to the dream.

[Da'Shain]

Interested but new to PF2e. I'm thinking of making just a straight Gunslinger 20, but let me see what I can build.

[DrK]

It is tempting, I am off work… it’s an intriguing combination
I’ll have a look through my core book and work something out

[DrK]

WIP on my barbarian (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2865674), with so many feats its taking a while!

[greenpotato]

Never played 2e.

Ill give it a go.

WIP on a sorcerer (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2865556)

[Thunder999]

I've only played PF2e at low levels with hardly any magic items. For a kineticist, is this a decent collection of magic items at level 20?

20 - Major Resilient Armor (I read the rules as the resilient and potency runes count as one 20th level item. If I'm wrong, I'd get rid of the Shadowmist Cape)
19 - Shadowmist Cape
18 - Emberheart
18 - Belt of Regeneration (17)
17 - Gate Attenuator (Major)
16 - Advancing Rune

Purchased
3750 Soaring Rune 14
6500 Antimagic Rune 15
4000 Eye of the Unseen 14
2800 Wyrm on the Wing - Greater Acid 13
2800 Wyrm on the Wing - Greater Electricity 13

You can only have one [Apex] Item. The Gate Attenuator (Major), Emberheart and Shadowmist Cape are all Apex items.
The Scapular of Stars (https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2530) is an incredibly good defensive option if you don't already have good reactions (which you may or may not depending on elements).
Emberheart would work, though is quite weak (poison resistance is fairly easy to get and 30hp isn't much at level 20, a Torrent in the Blood impulse or 3 action Heal both do 45).
There's others, but that Scapular is amazing and only 17th level, especially for a boss fight where you're happy to use 1/day resources.

I'm currently thinking I'll go with a Gobling Thief Rogue with maximum sneakiness, though all the other classes look pretty tempting, high level 2e feats are pretty cool.

[Xavion]

It doesn't look like it's come up yet and it does matter quite a lot, so what rarities of what are allowed? Does it differ by category? This affects basically every step of character building after all.

On the apex thing, remember multiple apex items are technically allowed, you just only get one stat boost at a time. Depending on what you look at it can matter, some of the apex items actually do have pretty amazing secondary effects. Generally a non-apex is better though yeah.

Just double checking on the remaster too, since it's out, is official, and we presumably would be using it, except AoN has been unusually slow about getting the content for it up. Their current hope is still before the New Year, but I'm just making sure to mention it. It's nothing too big for most classes though, just a bunch of small tweaks. Wizard and Cleric probably affected the most.

[Bobthewizard]

Here is Aelwyd Lasair, (https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=626886) Fire/Earth/Air/Metal kineticist, Warrior of the Desert Wind.

https://i.imgur.com/GkrflE3.jpg


He is a Vourinoi (https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Vourinoi#:~:text=The%20Vourinoi%2C%20commonly%20kn own%20as,valleys%20or%20oases%20of%20Osirion.) elf from Osirion, who successfully protected his land from an overwhelming undead invasion. The evil lich necromancer Zagruk Shus'tar in Osirion raised an army of zombies and mummies and tried to take over the deserts. Aelwyd united the humans, elves and catfolk into an army, led them to hold off the horde, and made his way to the Lich and defeated it. His mantle was taken directly from the Lich's corpse. It is an artifact of the desert itself, appearing to be covered with shifting, blowing red sand, that swirls around him when his gate is activated.

Instead of staying and trying to become king, Aelwyd gave away his right to the throne and began wandering the world, doing hero stuff, and waiting for another great evil to present itself. He is not interested in politics, power or wealth, but wants to protect the world.

20 Armor +3 Major Resilient
19 Mantle of amazing health apex
18 greater fortification rune
18 staff of natures vengeance (major)
17 shadow rune
16 Advancing Rune (Greater)
12 five feather wreath greater 1750
14 boots of bounding, greater 4250
9 armband of athleticism 650
13 sturdy shield greater 3000
11 gate attenuator greater 1400
9 eyeslash major 700
5 wand (rank 2 tailwind) 180
12 healing potion greater x4 1600
12 snarling badger talisman 400
14 ruby capacitor greater 800
17 reflecting shard 2500

[Xavion]

Here is Aelwyd Lasair, (https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=622926) Fire/Earth/Air/Metal kineticist, Warrior of the Desert Wind.

He is a Vourinoi (https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Vourinoi#:~:text=The%20Vourinoi%2C%20commonly%20kn own%20as,valleys%20or%20oases%20of%20Osirion.) elf from Osirion, who successfully protected his land from an overwhelming undead invasion.

20 Armor +3 Major Resilient
19 Mantle of amazing health
18 Goggles of Night - Major
18 Mercurial mantle
17 Gate attentuator Major - Earthquake
16 Advancing Rune (Greater)
3750 14 Soaring armor rune
6500 15 antimagic rune
650 9 armband of athleticism
2800 13 greater wyrm on the wing - acid
2800 13 greater wyrm on the wing - electiricty

Watch out for Apex items, Pathbuilder will let you equip and use multiple but under the actual rules you can only benefit from one of the stat boosts at a time and you've currently got three active. Presumably using one of the con boosts?

[Bobthewizard]

Watch out for Apex items, Pathbuilder will let you equip and use multiple but under the actual rules you can only benefit from one of the stat boosts at a time and you've currently got three active. Presumably using one of the con boosts?

Yes. There's no way to keep that right. If I 'invest' in pathbuilder, it adds the stat bonus. If I don't, it doesn't add the skill bonuses. I can uncheck the mantle of amazing health and mercurial mantle and then my sheet is only off for stealth and acrobatics. I'll fix skills in a header for my posts.

Updated the link above.

[Xavion]

Yes. There's no way to keep that right. If I 'invest' in pathbuilder, it adds the stat bonus. If I don't, it doesn't add the skill bonuses. I can uncheck the mantle of amazing health and mercurial mantle and then my sheet is only off for stealth and acrobatics. I'll fix skills in a header for my posts.

Updated the link above.
Yeah, it's kinda annoying. Pathbuilder is normally so good but multiple apex items is one of the few things it fails with.

[redfeline]

I think the halfling backpack is my new favorite magic item of all time.

[Triskavanski]

Was there any limits on rarities?

[Infernally Clay]

Was there any limits on rarities?

The problem I had was that PF2E doesn't really do rarities very well. It's just common, uncommon, rare and unique and there are items of all rarities at all levels so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to limit them.

Given that, clearly, the game isn't necessarily designed around characters having multiple Apex items, though, I think I'll limit those to one per character. That probably fits better in terms of balance and design too, given how apex items are meant to be a huge deal and each one should define the character wielding it rather than one person having several while others have none.

[Xavion]

The problem I had was that PF2E doesn't really do rarities very well. It's just common, uncommon, rare and unique and there are items of all rarities at all levels so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to limit them.

Given that, clearly, the game isn't necessarily designed around characters having multiple Apex items, though, I think I'll limit those to one per character. That probably fits better in terms of balance and design too, given how apex items are meant to be a huge deal and each one should define the character wielding it rather than one person having several while others have none.
Eh, apex items are common so like, they're major character defining items because they're high level items, not because they're some legendary item like a higher rarity item might be. Balance wise it's completely fine to let players have multiple since the game already limits you to only one stat boost from them at a time. Understandable to limit it though.

Good to know though on rarity, that's the last bit I was waiting on to start properly fiddling with a character. For backstory stuff, what should we know about the setting? I assume just use standard Golarion gods for divine characters?

[Infernally Clay]

Eh, apex items are common so like, they're major character defining items because they're high level items, not because they're some legendary item like a higher rarity item might be. Balance wise it's completely fine to let players have multiple since the game already limits you to only one stat boost from them at a time. Understandable to limit it though.

Good to know though on rarity, that's the last bit I was waiting on to start properly fiddling with a character. For backstory stuff, what should we know about the setting? I assume just use standard Golarion gods for divine characters?

Perhaps, but the more I think on it the more I have an idea so I think one apex item that is strongly defined by your character would be better because...

...as far as backgrounds as concerned, I now want two things. As before, because these are legendary heroes, I want to know one thing they did that they will be remembered for forever. Now I also want to know how they got their apex item and it should really be another major event. Other than that, I'm more interested in the personality of the characters.

As for the world itself, standard pantheon but it is kind of a blank canvas. I have the general geography laid out but feel free to come up with locations of your own that are important to your character's backstory and I'll fit them in.

[Triskavanski]

At the moment, ideas..

Luchadora Gnoll: Either Barbarian or Swashbuckler + Wrestler Archetype

Isabella Donna Atropia: Dunno race - Poison based Alchemist

Mr. Bone: Skeleton Necromancer Wizard. Maybe a Lich

Desperado: Monk with Bullet Dancer Archetype...

[grumblyarcher]

Do you mind if we reflavor the apex item? I'm toying with a straight air kineticist and the idea of a 'Crown of Storms' as a major gate attenuator has started rattling around in my head.

[Infernally Clay]

Do you mind if we reflavor the apex item? I'm toying with a straight air kineticist and the idea of a 'Crown of Storms' as a major gate attenuator has started rattling around in my head.

Go crazy. The more personal flavour you bring the better, really.

[Thunder999]

Is it OK to submit a Pathbuilder character sheet? it's so much better than mythweavers for 2e, especially at high level with the sheer number of feats.

[Triskavanski]

https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2864914

Going with Vulcan, gnoll artificer