Quesstions and possible fix to Sphere of Annihilation

[Max Caysey]

Hi guys and girls

So, I was reading up on this thing, and there seem to me to be a few problems with this item, at least in my opinion. I wanted to discuss them and maybe come up with a functioning house rule for this item...

Now the first thing is, it that is says that "any matter that comes in contact with a sphere is instantly sucked into
the void, gone, and utterly destroyed."

So, there are two things that happen here. 1) you are moved into the void and 2) you are destroyed.

This merits some questions. Namely 1) Why is there no saving throw on against the movement and 2) why would the void destroy you? I mean epic level characters for instance usually have very high levels of resistances and immunities and would most likely be fine in any plane or even in the phlogiston. Also, basically any spell, item or ability that moves you, whether troughs teleportation magic or physically merits a save or an opposed check. Why is this not the case here? My feeling on the matter is, that there should be a saving throw against being moved (sucked into the void) and I also think that the void needs to be more clearly defined. Like why is something being destroyed automatically?

The second thing I think is problematic is that is says that only the direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character.

Like was is it, that makes this form of anihilation special in a way that would make miracle, wish or true ressurection incapable of restorring a destroyed object/ creature? That simply makes no sense to me. You are either destroyed or not, there are no levels to destruction in the game, and even if there were, what specific ability or spell would a divine being be using which an epic level spellcaster would not be able to use?

So in short, I think there are multiple problems that does not seem to take into account the way there rules are set up in 3.x...

I would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for fixing said problems?

CHeers!

[Chronos]

What a deity would be using that an epic spellcaster wouldn't would be the Life and Death salient divine ability. Deities get access to toys that mere mortals don't.

And matter gets destroyed/voided/whatever when it comes into contact with the Sphere. The relevant save or check or whatever isn't to withstand contact with the sphere; it's to avoid contact. If I tell the DM "I'm walking off the cliff", there's no save for me to avoid falling. If I tell the DM "I'm walking into the mysterious black sphere", there's no save for me to avoid annihilation. If a bad guy tries to use telekinesis to knock me off a cliff or into a Sphere, then I get whatever save or check or whatever telekinesis offers.

[Morphic tide]

IIRC, Spheres of Annihilation function as holes in the known multiverse. They're not a disintegration effect or negative energy or anything else with a clear countermeasure, they're more a spherical portal to "Somewhere We Can't Reach" called Annihilation because nobody's yet found any sign of what went through. Some may boot you deep into the Far Realms, others one-way doors into top-tier prisons like Tharzidun's, perhaps simply broken demiplanes like Bags of Holding that have been put through Portable Holes, it doesn't need to be a not-place where "anything" becomes "nothing" in some way.

And yes, there are levels of destruction. "Mundane" death just detaches the soul and sends it on its way, with it being considerably more complicated to reverse when you don't have an appropriate body. Something about [Death] effects and being used to make an Undead causes big issues to reattach, thus demanding similar magic to making the body anew altogether, but what that is was never properly defined. When the soul is inaccessible, either by destruction or imprisonment, there's no valid "pointer" to the person you're trying to revive without divine intervention or extremely scuffed timestream manipulation that's more "make it so they didn't die in the first place" than a resurrection.

[icefractal]

IMO they're somewhat like a black hole, in that anything which enters them is beyond all further interaction. And while they're classed as an artifact, I'd consider them more like a hole in the universe than something which was crafted by anyone.

As far as a milder version, which, say, just disintegrates you normally (the spell Sphere of Ultimate Destruction creates such a version) - sure, you can make it that way. But then what's even the point of them? They'd just be a magic trap, not particularly notable among other traps. As an active weapon they're pretty unwieldy (even with a Talisman of the Sphere), and the fact that you can't bring them along when you teleport is a pretty big downside for most people powerful enough to get control of one. Really, the "true annihilation, we're not exaggerating" thing is all they have really making them unique.

Which is, incidentally, why the Umbral Blot (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm) from the ELH is disappointing to me. Extremely cool in concept: fighting a sentient Sphere of Annihilation? Yeah, that's an epic challenge all right. But in execution, it's just a monster that can disintegrate you. It's tough, but it's not impervious to outside forces like a true SoA, and honestly at 30th+ level (when you'd expect to encounter it) it's not all that impressive a foe.

Personally, I'd maybe make the CR higher but make it a true Sphere of Annihilation - you really can't hurt it by any normal method, you can only escape it or do so artifact/deity tier stuff to destroy it. And you'd better have enough divinations / information to avoid being cornered by it. However, I'm assuming a relatively high-power paradigm where "30th level" means "20th level cheese, but more so" (and where 30th level characters are 'a big deal' to the point they have favors from gods to cash in when necessary), where-as the ELH is trying to support the "like 10th level but with larger numbers" style as well.

[ShurikVch]

FWIW, capstone of Entropomancer PrC gives immunity to the Sphere of Annihilation

[vasilidor]

I figured they were miniature black holes. they just ate you and that's it.

[Max Caysey]

Thank you all for your replies...

After carefully reading them I think I have come to the conclusion that my grief is simply that I think the "it touches you and your character is erased from the game instantly without any form of counter play" is just bad game mechanics.

That being said, I also think there are multiple inconsistencies in the description, which I personally find problematic.

Like we know its a magic item - albeit an artifact - with a caster level, so it runs on normal magic rules. Character can dodge/ resist bullets, fireballs, lightning, arrows, teleportation effects and what not, yet don't seem to get anything against thing thing. And it being a magic item, it seems weird to me that it does not have a save against its effect - it is after all a magic item and as such should be governed by the same set of logically consistent rules that other magic items and/or spells. Considering what you actually get a save against or touch armor or spell resistance, it seems to blatantly ignore these common things... and again... not only does this seem to me to be inconsistent with pretty much every other insta death effect, but as previously mention I simply think its poorly designed.

Now, I can sort of buy the idea of being a wormhole to somewhere outside the game, like a black hole, but again its a magical effect so its not a natural occurring thing, but a magical one. And as such I think there should be someway of countering its effect like a save or something.

A few ideas could be to either make it do an imprisonment effect (something like the spell of the same name, or perhaps high damage or possible some rapid aging effect (think Interstellar). These ideas are not really that great but does somehow apply what would essentially be a spell effect at touch, which would incur all the natural resistances and saves and immunities somewhat mitigating what I think the problem; namely the poor design.

I would love to hear your thought and see what ideas you guys might have in terms of making this less punitive.

Cheers!

[icefractal]

I mean, as a GM I just wouldn't use one in a context where someone could get surprise-perma-killed by it. It's not like there's any obligation to have them sitting around.

But if I did want to use one, in a context where "just don't get close" wasn't possible, I'd change the "can only be brought back with a deity's help" part. That one's kinda arbitrary, it's not inherent from the description, since (normally) even being totally physically destroyed doesn't inhibit True Resurrection. Of course this does imply PCs with access to True Rez, but as an artifact I wouldn't likely be using this in a normal low/mid level game anyway. In fact it wouldn't be much of a change to make regular Resurrection possible - just say that the sphere "cuts a path through" people who touch it, rather than "absorbs them completely" - then there's likely to be a body part left to restore them from. This fits, IMO, because the normal SoA doesn't have any kind of vacuum effect (though the Umbral Blot does).

I'm not sure adding a save helps, because unless it's low DC (and thus makes it not very scary or impressive), you still have a significant chance of a PC failing and being perma-dead.

[ShurikVch]

Character can dodge/ resist bullets, fireballs, lightning, arrows, teleportation effects and what not, yet don't seem to get anything against thing thing.
FWIW, AMF is magic too, and don't allow neither save, nor SR, and don't required attack roll

[vasilidor]

In the instances it is being controlled, have it be tied to touch attacks as to whether or not it does damage. Also maybe have it do HP damage that is non-resistible. This makes it a scary and potent weapon in the hands of a person controlling it with their magic, but gets rid of the instant death aspects. Mostly anyways.

[SimonMoon6]

Ever since 1st edition, the problem I've had with Spheres of Annihilation is: how the heck do you ever get to use it?

I mean, okay, suppose you are capable of controlling it. And you slowly move it into somebody's square and they haven't run away already. Well, there's no rule for how you hit them with it, so, presumably, you cannot hit anybody with it. So, yeah, you've got the most destructive device in the entire multiverse, but you can never ever ever actually use it on anyone.

Sure, maybe if you try moving it into a gelatinous cube's square, you might automatically get to hit it (because there's nowhere else in that square for the cube to move to, since it takes up the entire space). But apparently anybody else in a square containing a sphere of annihilation instantly dodges out of the way of it automatically.

So, all the impressive rules for controlling a sphere (and a special talisman whose only purpose is to help you control it) with special rules for how slowly it moves... it's all irrelevant because it will never hit you unless you choose to touch it.

And, yes, I know, if someone's immobilized or something, you could probably force them to touch the sphere... but, I mean, you could probably just kill them anyway at that point.

And, yeah, the sphere has other uses, like destroying inanimate objects. But, really, as a practical tool for destroying your enemies? It just falls flat. It looks cool, it has a cool effect, but it's never gonna work. It might as well be an Egyptian God Card.

[Powerdork]

You might be reading a lot into it, based on things that aren't present in the Dungeon Master's Guide. Where does it say that creatures are entitled to defend themselves against a sphere of annihilation?

Even the SRD, notorious for stripping out tons of explanatory text, has this line: "If the [control] check succeeds, the character can move the sphere (perhaps to bring it into contact with an enemy) as a free action." It's definitely a 'telling you why you might want to do that' parenthetical.

More gamers need to subscribe to the idea that 'if a player wants to make it happen, it happens, except where rules intercede'.