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Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 03:46 PM
My DM just gave my group a big problem. We are 16th level and we are in Sidgel trying to find a way to hell(level 4). We needed to forge paperwork for travel but the person who we went to had different plans. He said that he could sell my paladins blood for lots of money, and he threw me in a magic resistant prison. He told my group that they could have me back if we payed him 100,000 gp, but we only have 24 hours to get it to him. We are short on funds now and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for generating this much wealth in such a short time. We cant just fight this guy, which is our usual course of action, so I cant think of anything. My group consists of 1 monk, rouge, wizard, archer-fighter, ranger, cleric, bard and paladin(me), we also have a young silver dragon helping us. Is there hope, or are we just doomed?

Ulrichomega
2007-12-12, 03:54 PM
My DM just gave my group a big problem. We are 16th level and we are in Sidgel trying to find a way to hell(level 4). We needed to forge paperwork for travel but the person who we went to had different plans. He said that he could sell my paladins blood for lots of money, and he threw me in a magic resistant prison. He told my group that they could have me back if we payed him 100,000 gp, but we only have 24 hours to get it to him. We are short on funds now and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for generating this much wealth in such a short time. We cant just fight this guy, which is our usual course of action, so I cant think of anything. My group consists of 1 monk, rouge, wizard, archer-fighter, ranger, cleric, bard and paladin(me), we also have a young silver dragon helping us. Is there hope, or are we just doomed?

What level are you guys, and how powerful is this dude? Since you're trying to go to hell, I assume that you are rather powerful.

Now, you have a wizard and a dragon. Just nuke this guy into the next dimension and hope the paladin has enough h...

Just kidding. Hmm... If you have enough right now, you can go to the local lords and ask for loans from each. You can then offer an item or two as collateral. That should get you up there. If there are no local lords, use teleport. Then, you have a much longer period to gather the 120,000 that you would have to pay back. Then you can go to hell (hehe).

AmberVael
2007-12-12, 03:55 PM
Oh nifty. Sounds easy enough to do, actually.

The plan? Dragon hunting. An ECL 17 dragon provides you with triple standard treasure, and ECL 17 gives you 36,000 gp worth of treasure.

So, the plan is to kill two ECL 17 dragons (or there abouts) in one day. I say two because you need 100,000 in raw gold, and selling items will take time and yada ya ya.
They should be easy enough to find, since you have a Ranger (for tracking within a specific area), a Cleric (for divination), a Wizard (for more divination), and a Bard (for bardic knowledge and hopefully knowledge checks to know where to start off).
As for killing them... you've got enough people, and they aren't too much more powerful. You could do it, especially since they'd have time to rest and recuperate between each one. With teleports, you can get around to them pretty quick.
Frankly, the most time consuming part of my plan is finding them.

Soups
2007-12-12, 03:56 PM
It is a terrible thing to do, and borders on evil, but my "neutral" campaign, we held high oficials for ransom. It helpped thay they were nobels. and the money they gave us were Vouchers, since 20k+ gp is hard to carry around. we got rid(bought tons of crap) of those vouchers A.S.A.P, since he would eventually get to telling the army about what happened after they would regain conciousness.

Otherwise, have a mage make "flash lights", ever burning tourches in a bullseye lanern should sell for 1.5 times the cost to make em. We did it back in 3.0, not sure what 3.5 says about something like that.

Both of those ideas require huge DM lieniency.

Mr.Bookworm
2007-12-12, 03:58 PM
You have a dragon helping you. Find out if it knows anything about where evil dragons are. If there's one nearby, kill it with fire/ice/acid/sonic, and show him the hoard.

Alterantively, just kill him. I mean, even if he's higher level than you, that many people plus a dragon should be able to put him down.

Redpieper
2007-12-12, 04:01 PM
Find a party two levels lower then you, capture one of them and give them 20 hours to give you 100.000 gp. :smallamused:

Runolfr
2007-12-12, 04:02 PM
You had a paladin working with a forger to get you papers to get into Hell?

Call it Lawful Stupid if you like, but I don't see a paladin purchasing forged papers from someone who is almost certainly evil in order to get access to Hell. With a 16th-level wizard and a 16th-level cleric in your group, you can't come up with a plane shift or something to get you there?

Anyway, this sounds like an occasion for violence and/or intimidation to me instead of scrambling around for ransom money.

Sebastian
2007-12-12, 04:02 PM
Try making a deal, 50.000 gp and half the paladin's blood, then a couple of heal/restoration and he should be OK.

Actually you could even start a business selling paladin's blood, as long as you don't take too much of it all at once. :)

Arbitrarity
2007-12-12, 04:03 PM
Major creationing some gold, then Nystul's magic aura, OR Fabricate cheese, OR let you die and get a true resurection, OR PAO something into a creature which is generally considered rare/valuable.

(Note: Most of the above are very cheesy, sorta. Most also involve the possibility of him getting revenge)

Also, why the hell does he want you to pay him more than the cost of true resurection? Suicide when he's not there, prehaps?

rollfrenzy
2007-12-12, 04:03 PM
Another answer would be to find and travel to a plane where time runs slow. like 1 year there = 1 day on sigil. Then go on a money grubbing sidequest.
More oppurtunities for interesting hooks and what-not.

..Or there's always the import steel to dragonlance and exchange for gold.

or buy a whole lot of ladders....:smallbiggrin:

Sebastian
2007-12-12, 04:05 PM
Find a party two levels lower then you, capture one of them and give them 20 hours to give you 100.000 gp. :smallamused:

Pyramidal schemes in D&D. :smallbiggrin:

Kiirseva
2007-12-12, 04:09 PM
Find someone to loan you 100k gp in exchange for another quest without a 24 hour time limit.

The_Snark
2007-12-12, 04:10 PM
You had a paladin working with a forger to get you papers to get into Hell?

Call it Lawful Stupid if you like, but I don't see a paladin purchasing forged papers from someone who is almost certainly evil in order to get access to Hell. With a 16th-level wizard and a 16th-level cleric in your group, you can't come up with a plane shift or something to get you there?

Anyway, this sounds like an occasion for violence and/or intimidation to me instead of scrambling around for ransom money.

If you don't have papers, every single devil in Hell can attack you if it feels like, and when they don't succeed, the survivors teleport away and report you to their superiors. It's not something you want happening unless you can take on multiple pit fiends at once, and even then you ought to think twice. When you have legal papers, devils generally can't attack you directly (unless there are extenuating circumstances), and all you have to deal with is occasional attempts to trick you into doing something stupid from devils with nothing better to do.

Plane Shift can only deposit you on the first layer of a plane, and they want to be on the fourth. This means that without papers, you have to fight or sneak your way through four layers of Hell.

And I think he already said that violence couldn't be applied here, although I'm not sure why...

I imagine you're a good party, what with a paladin and a silver dragon, so that rules out a lot of easy schemes, like "find another paladin and offer to trade", or mugging mercanes. If there's really no way you can find this guy and kill him, try getting a loan from a good-aligned church (preferably your paladin's church). Even if they don't have the money themselves, they might be able to point you towards, say, an evil-aligned dragon or two.

bugsysservant
2007-12-12, 04:33 PM
1. Fabricate cheese
2. Some form of illusion- it only has to last long enough for you to take the paladin and go
3. Robbing evil creatures
4. Borrowing from the church
5. Mentally dominate the forger to believe you have given him the money
6. Kidnap an associate of the forger and offer to trade
7. Violence. If you don't think it will work, you just need to use more of it.

Mewtarthio
2007-12-12, 04:40 PM
And I think he already said that violence couldn't be applied here, although I'm not sure why...

Hard to forge papers when you're dead, I suppose. You could always beat the guy unconscious, then use some memory alteration spell (modify memory, if your bard knows it or a skillmonkey can UMD it, scroll of programmed amnesia otherwise) to make him think you've already paid. Or you could bead him unconscious and put a geas on him: "Forge free papers for the next ten thousand customers without telling anyone besides said customers." You get free papers, and your safe from retribution until he's forged ten thousand papers. Of course, in the meantime, you run the risk of Hell being flooded with cheap tourists using forged papers, meaning that the devils will find out about this little operation and devour your souls, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Damian_Blackclaw
2007-12-12, 04:56 PM
There are so many what ifs and additional information requests to be had . . . because we haven't been in this campaign.

But, consider, they have no good purpose for taking the paladin's blood. They have ransomed you . . . they can have no good purpose for your 100,000 gold.

Consider any number of (depending on campaign) items within the party should be able to be sold (if possible).

Other less reputable member of the party can take loans.

Side quests . . .

Time shift . . .

How about reverse kidnapping/ransoming/fake bag of gold . . . "We have the money, it is at a safe location . . .you show us our friend is safe and alive and we'll give you (lead you) the map."

DtD

Animefunkmaster
2007-12-12, 05:06 PM
Well you could plane shift to anywhere and gate you back. Or other means of teleportation might be efficient.

Otherwise:

How to turn 9900 gp into everything (3 times).

Step 1: Procure a candle of invocation.
Step 2: Burn said candle, activate the Gate ability (let the cleric do this).
Step 2.5: Wizard Readies a force cage.
Step 3: Summon Efreeti

A noble djinni can grant three wishes to any being (nongenies only) who captures it.
Step 4: Ask for the wishes.

One in particular you will want:

Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

Edit: You can even rinse and repeat this, by wishing for another candle and the dust for force cage. But this might get silly and on the DMs nerves.

Drider
2007-12-12, 05:41 PM
the first time I read that, I thought you were only lvl 4 and needed to pay 100,000 lol. Did you get a chance to fight back this guy, or did he "quickened DM kidnap"?

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 05:47 PM
You had a paladin working with a forger to get you papers to get into Hell?

Call it Lawful Stupid if you like, but I don't see a paladin purchasing forged papers from someone who is almost certainly evil in order to get access to Hell. With a 16th-level wizard and a 16th-level cleric in your group, you can't come up with a plane shift or something to get you there?

Anyway, this sounds like an occasion for violence and/or intimidation to me instead of scrambling around for ransom money.


My paladin is, uh, special. He killed a good gold dragon once, belives that all evil should be erased in the bloodiest way possible, and has tried to kill the party bard on numerous occasions. In just this quest he worked with a vampire (who drank his blood for information) and a devil (who made us find a solar for him to whip (to find the location of a gate to hell level 4) My DM is very lax abut that sort of stuff. Why we cant fight is because the leader of Sidgel whos name escapes me kills anyone who commits violent acts.

Thanks for all the great advice so far.:smallsmile:

TheLogman
2007-12-12, 05:50 PM
Sigel is a lawful community it has guards and junk, plus the Lady of Pain. Either fake money through Fabricate, or even illusions, or just call in the authorities. Or, ya know, kill the guy. You're powerful.

tyckspoon
2007-12-12, 05:58 PM
My paladin is, uh, special. He killed a good gold dragon once, belives that all evil should be erased in the bloodiest way possible, and has tried to kill the party bard on numerous occasions. In just this quest he worked with a vampire (who drank his blood for information) and a devil (who made us find a solar for him to whip (to find the location of a gate to hell level 4) My DM is very lax abut that sort of stuff. Why we cant fight is because the leader of Sidgel whos name escapes me kills anyone who commits violent acts.

Thanks for all the great advice so far.:smallsmile:

And drawing your paladin's blood (presumably against his will) to sell isn't going to qualify as a violent act? It sounds like you could just not pay the ransom and then let the hammer of the gods fall on the kidnapper.. or is he planning to sell you off to somebody else who will presumably be exsanguinating you somewhere outside the jurisdiction of Sigil?

Plan for not having to raise the money: If the forger is not immune to mind-affecting things, get your wizard, cleric, and bard together. Blitz the forger with charms and dominates until he fails a save, force him to release you, and get him to draft the travel visas for free as compensation for being dumb enough to try and cross a 16th level party.

If you really do have to get the money, the fastest way would be to get your hands on four wishes. Wish for 25,000 gp each time (the limit for a safe Wish) and you're done. Binding Efreets is probably the simplest method; two wishes for cash, one wish to call a second efreet.

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 06:02 PM
is he planning to sell you off to somebody else who will presumably be exsanguinating you somewhere outside the jurisdiction of Sigil?

Probaly. He didnt say though. Also, the Forgers name is master thief, so I assume he is a rouge, and he is very rich, so I assume he is high level. Also, his house is anti-magiced.

AslanCross
2007-12-12, 06:17 PM
Wait, so you're trying to planeshift directly to the 4th level of the Nine Hells? As far as I can tell that's not supposed to be possible, as Asmodeus keeps the whole thing in such lawful shape that even the most powerful demon lords can't planeshift in past the first level. That's why his defenses on Avernus are so solid despite demons outnumbering devils 20 to 1.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-12, 06:22 PM
Ooh...have some fun...PaO to turn a very irate monster (a nice and strong one) into a gem...stick it in a pile of other gems and meet him outside his place...tell him you will be back with the rest in short order and wander off...

laugh when he takes the gem into his house and the monster goes berserk on his ass...oops...no magic...*lol* make sure it is a creature with some decent damage reduction and hopefully immune to sneak attacks with a very good spot check. Something should fit the bill. maybe you could do something that would persist through the anti magic to ensure the creature will kill the guy...then you just come to the 'rescue' and slay the beast...or alert the guards to a disturbance and let them handle the creature while you rescue your buddy.

find someone else to get you papers to hell.

Jothki
2007-12-12, 06:23 PM
I would assume that in general, devils would hate people who forge papers more than they would hate giving real papers to people who notify them about the name and location of a forger.

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 06:45 PM
Wait, so you're trying to planeshift directly to the 4th level of the Nine Hells? As far as I can tell that's not supposed to be possible, as Asmodeus keeps the whole thing in such lawful shape that even the most powerful demon lords can't planeshift in past the first level. That's why his defenses on Avernus are so solid despite demons outnumbering devils 20 to 1.

We are going to use a special gate. That is why we needed to get a devil to whip a solar and read the marks to find it.
we also had to go through hell (figuritivly) to find the key that let us use the gate.

Psionic Dog
2007-12-12, 07:29 PM
Are you really expected to raise 100k gold?

If yes, look for a local side quest. At the least you should be able to buy more time.

Alternatively, plan a sneaky rescue.

First, get the papers so you can make a fast exit once the you (the paladin) is free.

Then, use mundane means to jail break the paladin. This can be done by disguises and bluffs, stealth, brute mundane force, or some combination of the above. If the Master Theif and his high level minions can be drawn out of the house the people working the jail break will have an easier time.

Also, define "magic resistant prison"

That term suggests loopholes to be exploited.

MMad
2007-12-12, 07:33 PM
Hm. Find 10 other people willing to loan you 10k each on short notice and with little collateral. You'll put yourselves even deeper in debt in the long run, but it'll make for an interesting situation to roleplay your way out of.. :) Especially considering the only people you could realistically be able to approach for those kinds of loans would be the local equivalent of mobsters.

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 07:44 PM
Also, define "magic resistant prison"

That term suggests loopholes to be exploited.

It means that when the cleric tried to teleport to me, then use another spell that I forget, it didnt work. Also, as far as I can tell, all of Master Thiefs house is magic resistant.

Also, The house is in a very bad part of town, so it is hard to bring anything of value there without being mugged by gangs/monsters/higher level adventurers with nothing better to do. Part of the reason the cleric(who was there with me) and I didnt just fight MT is because all I had with me was a masterwork greatsword.

Dervag
2007-12-12, 07:59 PM
I would assume that in general, devils would hate people who forge papers more than they would hate giving real papers to people who notify them about the name and location of a forger.But that's only a viable strategy if the devil with the power to issue the papers is confident they won't be misused. Since the PCs are presumably not planning to do something in the interest of the devils, they're unlikely to get the papers (not least because the devil issuing the papers is in a lot of trouble if the PCs wreak havoc in Hell using papers he issued them).

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 08:17 PM
I think I need to put in some background information
-We are going to hell to rescue a good aligned king who is held prisoner there.
-The king ruled a nation that was at war with another nation that is allied with the devils.
-We have already killed a high ranking devil (so I doubt that we would get a reward for turning in Master Thief, maybe a pardon, but not a reward.)
-We have contacts with the church of hieronios, sorry if that was miss-spelled.

This might not help with getting large sums of money, but it might be helpful to some people.

Chronos
2007-12-12, 09:34 PM
Wait, you say you have a 16th-level rogue in your party? What is this "prison" of which you speak?

And to make things even easier, the villain has even done you the favor of casting the Antimagic Field himself, so your rogue doesn't have to.

Anxe
2007-12-12, 10:26 PM
Maybe your DM wants you to sneak in and try to spring him. If not then just sell some of your magic and give the guy some money.

Mando Knight
2007-12-12, 10:53 PM
My DM just gave my group a big problem. We are 16th level and we are in Sidgel trying to find a way to hell(level 4). We needed to forge paperwork for travel but the person who we went to had different plans. He said that he could sell my paladins blood for lots of money, and he threw me in a magic resistant prison. He told my group that they could have me back if we payed him 100,000 gp, but we only have 24 hours to get it to him. We are short on funds now and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for generating this much wealth in such a short time. We cant just fight this guy, which is our usual course of action, so I cant think of anything. My group consists of 1 monk, rouge, wizard, archer-fighter, ranger, cleric, bard and paladin(me), we also have a young silver dragon helping us. Is there hope, or are we just doomed?

Magic resistant prison? Paladin-blood hungry forger?

1. This guy is obviously EVIL. He wants to sell the blood of someone who is Lawful Good.

2. You are in a magic resistant cell... is that 2-way?

3. You have a wizard and a cleric on your side, probably with high-powered spells.

4. He wants your money

You can safely assume that he is either far too powerful to defeat (and thus you must cough up the cash) or he's an idiot and can be annihilated by the wizard and cleric's armageddon-level spells, while your cell will come to no harm. Nuke the nut, then pick the lock. Find a different guy for the item you seek.

Idea Man
2007-12-12, 11:10 PM
Technically, if you can't come up with the money, you can always let him bleed out your paladin, then true ressurect him for much less. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, how much does a silver dragon go for on the black market? :smallamused:

Long route: Bard "lores" a local organization that works with this wizard, party subdues and replaces members, infiltrates wizard's mansion, fights it's way out, happy end. :smallsmile:

Aaaand if you believe it'll be that simple, I've got some pixie dragonslayers I can loan you, cheap! The theory is sound, though.

Yvian
2007-12-12, 11:19 PM
1. Fabricate cheese
2. Some form of illusion- it only has to last long enough for you to take the paladin and go
3. Robbing evil creatures
4. Borrowing from the church
5. Mentally dominate the forger to believe you have given him the money
6. Kidnap an associate of the forger and offer to trade
7. Violence. If you don't think it will work, you just need to use more of it.

Ah, if you lack coin, hope that counterfeit will do...

I also like the idea of kidnapping an associate.

Or...

Realize that the forger does not want 100K. He wants to buy something worth 100K. Figure out what he really wants and steal/get that. Heck, if you are stupid, let the forger throw on a geas/quest on you to make sure you get it back.

Squidmaster
2007-12-12, 11:58 PM
I dont think that there was a specific reason for the 100k price, I just think that the price for paladin blood on the black market is slightly less then that, and he wanted to make a profit.

Sanzh
2007-12-13, 12:02 AM
Lets see... Right now you've kinda got two options. Either you stage a rescue or you cough up the money.

For the sneaky rescue, it all depends on his magical defenses. If the defenses are two-way (he can't use his magic items) then you can probably get in, provided you do a lot of scrying first. It depends on what the rogue's skills are, but assuming he put maximum ranks in Open Lock or Disable Device (which is 19, off the top of my head) and a decent Dexterity, you can probably get in and free the paladin with little trouble.

As for coughing up the money, I have no idea.

And, if all else fails, you can enchant him or some of his assiocates (if he has any) to help spring you, using spells like Dominate Person and Geas/Quest. Anyway, best of luck to you. :smallbiggrin:

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-13, 03:26 AM
The ruler of the 4th plane of Hell has enemies...use them. make a deal with some devils from another plane who's dukes and archdevil have a beef with the guys holding the King. Tell them you wish to disrupt their plans and what not in exchange for a writ of passage...as a bonus you will reveal someone in Sigil who is forging such writs.

Play your cards right and it will be two birds with one stone. get your writ and get the devils to take care of the forger in a 'lawful' manner.

If the Devils won't give you a writ, they will more than likely take vengeance on the forger. Try to get a 'real' writ though...if you are cauht with a fake, it will be much worse than just wandering around hell willy nilly...

Solo
2007-12-13, 03:32 AM
Obtain the money and get him out of there, prehaps? You rescue the paladin, get the gold, and don't have to pay for the writ.

Then inform on the forger in exchange for favors from a few 4th level devils, as the above posters have suggested.

Your DM will never see it coming.:smallbiggrin:

lord_khaine
2007-12-13, 04:29 AM
i do think you should try and find a out of the box solution, instead of paying those 100k gold to the bastard.

to start with it should be possibel to just knock him out and free the paladin, or better yet try and ask him what he think the devils would do to him if they discovered he was forging those papers.