3.P - Using Healing Magic to Help With Childbirth?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some 3rd party books have discussions on reproduction, but the only one I have access to (BoEF) doesn't have any rules on using healing magic to ensure the health and well-being of mother and child before and during childbirth, which is weird, since it does have a number of paragraphs that take the subject seriously.

Anyone have any information on other 3rd party books that discuss this? I think I've got Bastards & Bloodlines around here somewhere, but I can't see it having much on that topic, unless it's "how to crossbreed different species together."

Dragon Magazine is also welcome.

[redking]

Wish or Miracle can ensure not only a safe birth, but also a birth without problems such as disability or infernal or aberrant taint.

[Buufreak]

... if the unborn child is considered part of the body, can a regeneration or restoration spell quickly grow another post partum?

Edit: rereading my words, I want it known I am definitely not trying to argue politics, just trying to find a quick and easy method of a flesh and blood army through use of incredibly questionable ethics (see: Evil).

[Tzardok]

... if the unborn child is considered part of the body, can a regeneration or restoration spell quickly grow another post partum?

Edit: rereading my words, I want it known I am definitely not trying to argue politics, just trying to find a quick and easy method of a flesh and blood army through use of incredibly questionable ethics (see: Evil).

I'd go with no. Unborn children have souls in D&D. I don't think either spell can regrow a wholy new soul.

[Jay R]

I could see introducing a midwife, or even a midwife class, who have specialized spells to help with childbirth. If those spells have no value to an adventurer, then adventurers wouldn't know them -- and they wouldn't be in the books.

prestidigitation to clean house, mage hand to get things off of high shelves, and mending for, well, mending. But a cook might learn a measuring spell, and a ditch digger could use a lesser move earth.]

Also, in my games, magic is rare. Common people usually can't afford it. In a previous post, redking suggested using wish or miracle for childbirth. It should be obvious that, in the average village, there are a lot more births than there are ninth level spells.

[Palanan]

Back in the day, Rich had a homebrew section which included a divine caster, intended as an NPC, which helped with both human and animal midwifery.

I can’t find it now and sadly don’t recall the name, but a bit of searching might turn it up. As I recall it was almost exactly what the OP is looking for. Not strictly a third-party publication, but might be helpful in some way.

[ixrisor]

Healing spells make caesarean birth much safer and easier, possibly so much so that it would be preferred over natural birth. The mother could be anaesthetised using oil of taggit or drow sleep poison, and the incision healed using cure minor or cure light wounds. It would cost around 100 gp per birth, most of which is the cost of the anaesthetic.

[Palanan]

If anaesthetic is available and safe, then there would probably be some who would prefer to simply be sedated without any cutting at all. But there would be others who would object to any loss of consciousness—see Claire’s experience with forced sedation during childbirth in Outlander.

For those who want it, anaesthetic at that price point would be within the means of many middle- and upper-class city dwellers, as well as the wealthier rural residents—but hopelessly out of reach for most people in an agricultural setting.

[Gnaeus]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170815034614/https://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html

Not homebrew, I think. Pretty sure it was dragon. But anyway, the Gleaner

[Maat Mons]

Some cheaper ways to render someone unconscious are Diamondwater Ale and Miner’s Milk (Dragon 334, p68). Alternately, regular alcohol will do the trick if you drink enough of it (Arms and Equipment Guide, p35). Or, since this is D&D, just deal enough nonlethal damage to the patient. There are no long-term consequences from being violently beaten over the head in this ruleset.

The best solution, though, would be to use some sort of Teleportation effect to get the baby out.

The funniest solution would be for a Ghost to possess the unborn child and make an Escape Artist check.

[King of Nowhere]

The main cause of death in childbirth is infection. Remove disease would be the single most useful spell. Lacking that, lesser restoration raises the survival chances considerably

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gnaeus
*the Gleaner*

That’s it exactly, thanks. I don’t think it’s a Dragon item, since it’s listed as “by Rich Burlew,” and it doesn’t appear in the DragonDex. Rich appears as an author only once, for an unrelated article, so seems most likely the Gleaner is his personal homebrew.

For the OP, the Gleaner has a spell called Blessed Birth which is right in line with what you’re looking for. Again, not published per se, but another idea to work from.

[Chronos]

Poisons causing unconsciousness might or might not work for surgery in general (just because you're unconscious doesn't mean you can't feel pain), but they probably wouldn't work for childbirth. In childbirth, the mother still needs to actively push, and so there are specialized anesthetic techniques for childbirth to still allow for that. An alchemist or herbalist might still be able to come up with some equivalent, but it'd be a separate thing, that'd need to be specifically researched.

[Gnaeus]

That’s it exactly, thanks. I don’t think it’s a Dragon item, since it’s listed as “by Rich Burlew,” and it doesn’t appear in the DragonDex. Rich appears as an author only once, for an unrelated article, so seems most likely the Gleaner is his personal homebrew.

For the OP, the Gleaner has a spell called Blessed Birth which is right in line with what you’re looking for. Again, not published per se, but another idea to work from.

It's by Keith Baker, illustrated by Rich. I see it referred to by a bunch of people as 3.5 but none of the source. So IDK.

[Arael666]

... if the unborn child is considered part of the body, can a regeneration or restoration spell quickly grow another post partum?

Edit: rereading my words, I want it known I am definitely not trying to argue politics, just trying to find a quick and easy method of a flesh and blood army through use of incredibly questionable ethics (see: Evil).

A better option would be to cast PaO twice on pebbles to make them humans, then mindrape them. Instant army, no need for them to grow or be trained.

[Buufreak]

A better option would be to cast PaO twice on pebbles to make them humans, then mindrape them. Instant army, no need for them to grow or be trained.

That requires some high level casters though. Regen is online much sooner.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Magic creating life isn't inherently evil, and using regenerate to create twins, triplets, or more isn't exactly evil either, unless the baby is created soulless and evil by default. And aren't children only supposed to get souls, like, 3 days after birth, or is that just a real world religious thing*? Because if a child gains a soul after 3 days, then any child born this way should be just as much of a "real" person as the original one was, much like genetically identical siblings are.

*Not wanting to debate IRL stuff. I just don't remember if it's part of the game or if people believe it IRL.

[Tzardok]

Never heard that 3 days after birth thing before, and at least in the Great Wheel it doesn't apply. Zaphkiel the Watcher, leader of the archons, is amongst other things the Guardian of the Stillborn. He collects the souls of stillborn babys and those that die very young and keeps them save in Celestia to keep unscroupulus beings from exploiting them.

Also, while some beings apparantly don't have souls, normal beings like humans can't survive without a soul, at least for long. See also the Magic Jar spell.

[Maat Mons]

Poisons causing unconsciousness might or might not work for surgery in general (just because you're unconscious doesn't mean you can't feel pain), but they probably wouldn't work for childbirth. In childbirth, the mother still needs to actively push, and so there are specialized anesthetic techniques for childbirth to still allow for that. An alchemist or herbalist might still be able to come up with some equivalent, but it'd be a separate thing, that'd need to be specifically researched.

Personally, I was considering inducing unconsciousness in the context of C sections. Delay Pain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/delay-pain/) could also be useful, though I’m not 100% sure how it works.



Witches (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Witch/) make some of the best town doctors due to Healing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/hexes/common-hexes/hex-healing-su/), Major Healing (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/hexes/major-hexes/hex-major-major-healing-su/), Regenerative Sinew (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/hexes/major-hexes/regenerative-sinew-su/), Life Giver (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/hexes/grand-hexes/hex-grand-life-giver-su/), and Death Interrupted (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/hexes/grand-hexes/death-interrupted-su/). Sylvan Trickster (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/sylvan-trickster-rogue-archetype/) Rogues also get all of those, but don’t have access to spells.

Side question: If you give your patient Lycanthropy, and they give birth in animal form, does the baby come out in animal form? Animals seem to have an easier time in childbirth than humans, so that could be beneficial. If the baby comes out in human form, then the birth could still be a lot easier if the Lycanthrope’s animal form is Large size.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Side question: If you give your patient Lycanthropy, and they give birth in animal form, does the baby come out in animal form? Animals seem to have an easier time in childbirth than humans, so that could be beneficial. If the baby comes out in human form, then the birth could still be a lot easier if the Lycanthrope’s animal form is Large size.IIRC, changing forms like that would kill the baby, although that does make natural born lycanthropes a little bit impossible. And it would likely give the baby lycanthropy, as well, and the standard cure for lycanthropy is almost guaranteed to kill the kid. So it might not be the best of ideas.

[King of Nowhere]

A better option would be to cast PaO twice on pebbles to make them humans, then mindrape them. Instant army, no need for them to grow or be trained.

Somehow, i think using two 8th level spells and one 9th level spell -and taking advantage of some liberal interpretation on the RAI of PaO - to gain a 1 hd minion is not the most efficient use of resources

[Maat Mons]

I consider the baby being born as a Natural Lycanthrope to be a plus, not a minus. Soon, you’ll have a society full of Lycanthropes. I recommend tracking down a Were Legendary Bear to get this started, so everyone is born with 20 hit dice and strong Lawful Good tendencies. You might also consider Were Legendary Tiger, which would give 26 hit dice and strong True Neutral Tendencies.

[Pugwampy]

You guys are overthinking this . Hitpoint damage due to Female combat encounter with nature

Drink healing potion
Call your cleric
Play with your healing skill
Drop off female and some gold at the temple

[King of Nowhere]

You guys are overthinking this .

Isn't this the main purpose of a forum such as this one?