Please suggest medieval fantasy, plus sword & sorcery rules/variants to me

[2D8HP]

Please suggest some rules (or light modifications of some rules) that may do both medieval fantasy plus sword & sorcery settings well for me.

As I haven’t played an FRPG since 2019, and am unlikely to again anytime soon, this is probably an idle speculation, but I’m curious for “what if” ideas.

First, unlike setting lore (which I enjoy reading), I find learning new rule’s annoying, and if possible my preference is for rules that are close enough to 0e D&D, 1e AD&D, 5e D&D, 1981 Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, and/or Stormbringer rules that I already know, or are really easy to learn (and I don’t consider Pathfinder “easy”).

Second, I’d like an FRPG system that may do these types of character concepts, and very few others that are much different:

The Barbarian:
Conan from the stories by Howard, and Fadhrd from The Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser stories by Leiber, a strong outlander swordsman

The Explorer/Treasure Hunter:
Indiana Jones from The Raiders of the Lost Ark film, a fighting man scholar

The Knight:
Sir Gawain, and Sir Percival from the film Excalibur, an armored cavalier who fights with lance and sword

The Sailor:
Captain Sinbad from The 7th Voyage of Sinbad film, Long John Silver from Treasure Island, a sailor and usually also a swordsman

The Thief:
The Gray Mouser from Leiber’s tales, a skilled, agile, stealthy, and tricky swordsman

The Undead Hunter:
Van Helsing from Dracula, who uses holy symbols and their wisdom to vanquish unholy abominations; their Alignment should be “Good”, probably “Lawful” as well. Perhaps Undead Hunters may be in peril of becoming evil Magicians from too close proximity to the abominations they fight.

The Woodsman:
Robin Hood from The Adventures of Robin Hood film, and Tonto from the Lone Ranger television show; warriors who are masters of woodcraft

In terms of traditional D&D classes most of the above should be something like a sub class of fighter (including 1e AD&D Rangers), or a multi-class fighter/thief; the Undead Hunter is most like the D&D Cleric.

My favorite “archtype” for a Magician character should be a “delver in secrets men aren’t meant to know, something like:
Aeëtes in Jason and the Argonauts. Circe in Homer's The Odyssey, Elezer Whateley in Lovecraft’s “The Dunwich Horror”, Hristomilo from Leiber’s “Ill Met in Lankhmar”, Koura in The Golden Voyage of Sinbad, Morgan le Fay in Malory’s Le Morte d'Arthur, Tolkien’s Saruman, Sokurah in The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, Yara in Howard’s “The Tower of the Elephant"; some like Medea in Jason and the Argonauts may perhaps be initially benevolent, but as they cast more and more spells all shall in time they will be doomed and turn to evil, perhaps something like the Call of Cthulhu game’s “sanity” mechanic should be employed to track a magician’s character’s inevitable descent into damnation, definitely their should be a change in Alignment so that they eventually become Evil, and as their madness afflicts their mind they should become Chaotic as well. None (if they live long enough) should stay good and sane like Tolkien’s Gandalf, or Le Guin’s Ged; though perhaps a Magician may be redeemed like Star Wars’ Darth Vader, but they shouldn’t live long afterwards.

In terms of 5e D&D rules I imagine the Magician as a hodgepodge of a 1e D&D Magic-User (5e Wizard) and a 5e Warlock

Whether there should one or two classes (to give the Sorcerer and the Witch different enough flavors) is a level of rules fine tuning that I’m not particularly invested in, but ideally one should be able to play a Magician class as simply as a 5e Champion fighter, or as with as many options as a current 5e Spell caster; if there’s a Magician PC class at all, and the rules (like most editions of King Arthur Pendragon) don’t just have Magicians as an NPC class only).

Pendragon is probably my favorite non-D&D FRPG, but, while it does Arthurian well, it just doesn’t do Sword & Sorcery roguish characters like Conan, Fafhrd, and the Gray Mouser, and I want that.

Thanks.

[Pauly]

For a rules light set:
Barbarians of Lemuria. The old editions are available free online.

For a more complete/rounded set
Robert E Howards Conan the Barbarian.

Both sets lean into the player choosing and playing their archetype rather than set classes like DnD does. Conan has an optional random character generator that really is a lot of fun to create the characters.

[Lalliman]

For a rules light set:
Barbarians of Lemuria. The old editions are available free online.
I can elaborate on this one because I quite like it.

The first edition of BoL is extremely basic, to the point of being dysfunctional. The later editions are solidly designed while still being rules-light games with a focus on GM arbitration.

Characters are built from four attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma by different names), careers (for non-combat stuff), and skills (for combat and magic). My favorite design element is the careers; you put points into a certain profession, like sailor, and then you get that number as a bonus on anything that profession should be good at, at the GM's discretion. It's a neat way for a rules-light system to still cover all the bases.

The magic system is heavily geared towards the "sacrifice a virgin during a full moon to raise an army of undead" type. Mages can't do much on a whim, but there are rules for performing rituals to use powerful spells. Example spells are provided, but what you can do with magic is mainly GM-arbitrated. I don't recall there being mechanics for magical corruption, but I wouldn't be surprised if they exist and I overlooked them. The game certainly presents itself with the genre convention of mages usually being evil.

Oh, the game also uses hero points as a meta-currency to improve your rolls, without which it would be quite swingy and deadly.

You can probably judge from this summary whether it would be to your liking.

[Pauly]

Here is an online version of the character generator I mentioned for Conan. Play with that for a little bit and see if the characters you come up with resemble the types tou'd like to play.
The only archetype that you want that seems a little difficult to do, but but by means impossible, is Sir Gawain

https://conan.modiphiusapps.hostinguk.org/

Conan uses the 2d20 system, which is a fairly mainstream and easy to operate system

[KorvinStarmast]

Chivalry and Sorcery. It was a good game, albeit a bit complex, and I am still grinding my teeth over no longer being able to find the old source book I had ...

[LibraryOgre]

You might try Troll Lord Game's Castles and Crusades. (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/363234/Castles--Crusades-Players-Handbook?affiliate_id=315505)

The rules are sort of a light hybrid of AD&D and the d20 system, and very easy to learn. The game is class and level based, with the core mechanic being based around d20+attribute bonus v. a target number of 12 or 18. For class abilities (like a thief picking locks), you add your level. AC is ascending

It has a pretty AD&D slate of character classes... Fighter, Ranger, Assassin, Rogue, Barbarian, Monk, Wizard, Illusionist, Cleric, Druid, Bard, Knight, Paladin. Each class has a Prime attribute; Strength for fighters, Dex for rogues, etc.; that applies for all members of that class. Everyone also gets to choose a second prime, and humans get to choose a third.

Very fast and easy. Not my favorite game, but it does sword-and-sorcery as well as any AD&D does.

[Yora]

Dragonbane might be of interest. I think there's a free rules overview pdf for it somewhere.

[Enceladus]

Might consider Atlantis: The Second Age by Khepera Publishing. While using their own system, it is still based on the Atlantean Trilogy by Bard Games.

[Mutazoia]

You could always give Warhammer FRP a try. It doesn't have classes so much as it has careers that you can change when you meet the requirements for the new career you want to switch to (and there are a LOT of careers).

[Mordar]

RoleMaster. All day, every day. My favorite bit about this game was that you could model virtually any character from S&S/Fantasy that you could name (at least I could...yes, I'm sure there are some that can't be done, especially with strange interpretations of S&S and manga...) with reasonable fidelity.

A hugely flexible system that accommodates Conan, Merlin, Sinbad, Fafhrd, all 5 (and many many more) Master of the Five Magics magics, ninja, Order of the Stick, Allanon...you get the idea.

Much like Call of C'thulhu it became popular to paint this game with a single uninformed criticism and dismiss it because, frankly, arithmetic scares people. But I know you are from those days of myths and legends "the 80s" where such things didn't frighten us. You might have to add a few numbers together. Virtually everything follows a single resolution metric, defenses make sense and matter, spells are magical but not reality warping, and combat counts.

In short, if I could only play one RPG ever again, this would be it. Because high magic, low magic, no magic...high fantasy, no fantasy...Howard, Leiber, Tolkien, Salvatore, Weis/Hickman, Cook...all of them, easily, and more.

- M

[LibraryOgre]

In short, if I could only play one RPG ever again, this would be it. - M

Play it every day until you die, having tripped on an invisible, deceased, turtle. :smallbiggrin:

[Mordar]

Play it every day until you die, having tripped on an invisible, deceased, turtle. :smallbiggrin:

But that only costs me 2 rounds. And only after thousands of foes learned to fear the number 66 almost as much as >90!

- M

[LibraryOgre]

But that only costs me 2 rounds. And only after thousands of foes learned to fear the number 66 almost as much as >90!

- M

I'm mostly familiar with RM through MERP. If I started a thread in Older Games, would you come by so I could pick your brains? Likely not gonna play it, but I'm always interested in delving into mechanics and knowing what I did wrong.

[VoxRationis]

I'd suggest Mythras, a d100 system oriented by default to either classical or medieval fantasy that is explicitly made so that the GM can alter properties of combat styles, cultures, the laws of magic, etc. to fit whatever setting and tone they want. The Monster Island setting book, which puts forth specific examples of how these things can be altered, leans hard into the sword-and-sorcery trope of magic being dangerous and corruptive. The combat system also is centered around active parrying and the choosing of "special effects" to try and gain an advantage over an opponent in a way besides just doing lots of damage, so archetypes such as the ones you've cited, which often use light armor, if any armor at all, still can function in combat, merely being subject to additional risk compared to a heavily armored character.

[Mordar]

I'm mostly familiar with RM through MERP. If I started a thread in Older Games, would you come by so I could pick your brains? Likely not gonna play it, but I'm always interested in delving into mechanics and knowing what I did wrong.

Certainly. Been a while for some of the nuances, but broad strokes can be helpful!

- M

[Psyren]

Since you're already comfortable with 5e from a mechanical standpoint, your best bet might be to push that game towards a Sword & Sorcery playstyle. Use variant rules like Gritty Realism, Slow Natural Healing, Healing Kit Dependency, Injuries and Morale to give your 5e game a brutal Conan vibe; you can even throw in things like Honor and Sanity if you're feeling adventurous. In addition, you can then force caster players to multiclass to keep them from growing too powerful, and emphasize the heightened danger and needing to flee from certain fights. You can even ban some classes entirely like Clerics and Wizards.

[Tarmor]

Play it every day until you die, having tripped on an invisible, deceased, turtle. :smallbiggrin:

...unseen, imaginary, deceased turtle. (Library Ogre is very confused) Sorry... been working on MERP stuff over the last week and ALL my players still remember that line after 30 years!

[Sneak Dog]

I'd suggest Mythras, a d100 system oriented by default to either classical or medieval fantasy that is explicitly made so that the GM can alter properties of combat styles, cultures, the laws of magic, etc. to fit whatever setting and tone they want. The Monster Island setting book, which puts forth specific examples of how these things can be altered, leans hard into the sword-and-sorcery trope of magic being dangerous and corruptive. The combat system also is centered around active parrying and the choosing of "special effects" to try and gain an advantage over an opponent in a way besides just doing lots of damage, so archetypes such as the ones you've cited, which often use light armor, if any armor at all, still can function in combat, merely being subject to additional risk compared to a heavily armored character.

I've been getting into Mythras, and I second this. It's a system that expects the GM to set up the magic in the setting themselves, but also has decently concrete examples and guidance. This includes things like how and how fastmana is regained, what spells are available to whom, how they're learned. There is a nice list of spells to work with. I've been loving the animism/spirit magic chapter. Besides that it does seem to have the S&S themes baked into it.
Downside being that there's a lot of rules. It's not a simple system and though character creation and advancement is pretty straight-forward and simple compared to, say, Pathfinder, the amount of game mechanics is probably comparable.


Since you're already comfortable with 5e from a mechanical standpoint, your best bet might be to push that game towards a Sword & Sorcery playstyle.

And this I'd oppose. All PCs in 5e are heroic and powerful in ways I'd say aren't very S&S-like. To change that would be to rip the core system apart, it's engrained into the mechanics, as it should be. Use a system appropriate to your theme.

[meschlum]

You might manage with Reve: the Dream Oneiros

- Characters are 'defined' by the skills they learn the most easily (as part of the player generated archetype). A character could find it very easy to pick up wilderness survival and archery, or lockpicking and dance. There are a lot of skills, and a very large number of skills in which you have at least some potential, so a side serving of being able to pick up basic swimming and archeology is easy to pull off.
- Characters are mundane (with improved physical capabilities when in trouble) or magical. It's possible to become magical from overexposure to magic, but not the reverse.
- Magic comes in four schools, with one that is explicitly Bad Stuff. Using it involves a long term risk of minor madness, and using the Bad Magic has worse (and more persistent) consequences if they trigger. They're also rare enough that players don't lose agency over a few sessions, but could explain why other magic wielders are trouble. Spellcasting is somewhat slow, but can be planned ahead of time to speed things up (with more risk of madness) - you may want to review the spell effects and so forth, of course.
The four schools of magic are (roughly speaking): Alter the world (create static fireballs, transmute a river into a bridge, and so forth); mental effects, divination, and minor summoning (versatile but lack of combat applications); imbuing items with power (from single dose healing potions to flying brooms, with a side of magic weapons); and major summoning, transformation (a la Circe), and curses (with much better odds of going insane if used).
- The system is somewhat quirky but works on a skeleton similar to the Chaosium system, but where your odds of success are a combination of skill, attribute, and difficulty. In combat, you can set the difficulty of your attacks yourself, so try to pull off complex feints with a high reward if they connect or basic blows that still need to be avoided.
- Healing is slow, fatigue sets in while fighting, and training can let you improve (slowly)

The Knight archetype might be harder to pull off, as armor is typically a lot worse than weapons in the system (even magic armor), so relying on your toughness ot tank blows is a losing strategy.

[Psyren]

And this I'd oppose. All PCs in 5e are heroic and powerful in ways I'd say aren't very S&S-like. To change that would be to rip the core system apart, it's engrained into the mechanics, as it should be. Use a system appropriate to your theme.

5e is a lot more resilient to this sort of modification than you believe, especially since finding help and advice from others who have used these variants is easy to do. And while base 5e PCs are powerful, you can disempower them easily simply by putting them up against deadlier threats than expected.

The OP said they are familiar with the ruleset and would prefer to not have to learn something entirely new, so it's a viable suggestion.