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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Grant us Eyes! - Bringing Bloodborne into 3rd edition



Yora
2023-12-28, 05:26 PM
I recently had an idea for a campaign in a seemingly generic Elfland setting that combines monsters from Lords of Madness with some concepts from Bloodborne. And while I was at browsing LoM for more ideas, working with the Manual of the Planes seemed like another great idea.

And at that point, why not just make that a D&D 3rd edition campaign?

I think I've not really done anything with the system in over a decade, but looking at it again, it seems like riding a bike. I know all this stuff! I know how it all works.

But while everything comes right back when I look at it, my memory is very hazy about all the hoards of options and alternative system that existed for the game even then. So perhaps you might have some ideas what material I might take a look at to port some concepts from Bloodborne into 3rd edition.

To quickly recap and summarize, in Bloodborne, there are these ancient and powerful extraplanar aberrations called the Great Ones. Humans learned of their existence out there in the dark depths of the Cosmos and wanted to study them to gain supernatural powers. One of the schools of research that wasn't all about human experiments with alien blood believed that the realm of the Great Ones wasn't a distant place but right all around them. The human mind is simply too simple to perceive most of reality, while much of the true form of the world remains invisible to it. So their research was into expanding the human mind and gain awareness of all of reality. As one of them put it "to line the insides of their brains with eyes".
In the game, having encounters with eldritch beings increases a stat named Insight. As your insight increases you start to see more really weird stuff in the environment that apparently had been there invisible to normal human sight the whole time. The downside is that you also become more vulnerable to the supernatural attacks of the eldritch beings and their corrupted servants. For gameplay reasons, there is also a completely separate stat called Arcane that you level up normally, which enables you to use eldritch magic items and increases the damage you do with them.

This is something that I think would be really cool in a planar Lords of Madness campaign, but Insight and Arcane should be the same stat. Let's call it Weird for now.
- Encounters with aberrations and studies of aberrant lore increases character's Weird score.
- A higher Weird score enables you to use eldritch items and makes them more powerful.
- A higher Weird score makes it harder to resist the supernatural attacks of aberrations.

It would be kind of like a Sanity score that makes you mad when repeatedly exposed to the eldritch supernatural, but it also makes you better at aberrant magic.

Any alternative rules or new systems that come to mind for this?

Such a campaign should definitely include psionics. Not sure how I would combine psionics with Weird yet, but if anyone knows material for more eldritch psionics, I would absolutely be interested in that as well.

Palanan
2023-12-28, 06:46 PM
Love this concept.

Not sure how familiar you are with Pathfinder, but you might want to check out Horror Adventures, which has spells for contacting eldritch entities, plus rules for sanity, corruption, etc. Definitely worth a look.

ShurikVch
2023-12-28, 07:43 PM
Some things to check before inventing your own:

Forbidden Knowledge (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) rules

Madness Domain (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#madnessDomain) Granted Power

Corruption and Depravity rules (Heroes of Horror)

Corruption to the Flesh table ("Enter the Far Realm" article, Dragon #330)

Cataclysm Mage PrC (Explorer's Handbook)

Alienist PrC (Complete Arcane; but version from the Tome and Blood is better)

Feats:
Corrupt Arcane Studies (Ghostwalk) - +1 on your spells' DC and to overcoming SR; -2 Wis permanently
Disturbing Spell (Dragon #332) - allow to "pay" metamagic "cost" with Wis damage (which can't be restored by magical means)
Far Look (Dragon #330) - you gain one spell slot (slot is of "any" level - decided at moment of spell preparation or spontaneous cast, but can be used only to cast spells from the Cerebrosis list); -2 Wis; feat can be taken multiple times, but if your Wis ever fall to 0 (for whatever reason), you would be hit with the Finger of Expulsion spell (and, unless you manage successful Will save - with Wis 0 -, would be yeeted into the Far Realm)

EDIT:
Also, Birthright campaign setting, rules for Bloodline Usurpation

Morphic tide
2023-12-28, 08:22 PM
To my understanding of the lore, Arcane is knowing how to work with the "magic" which is mostly human-friendly, while Insight is the active perception of the process that is also not itself mind-breaking but exposes you to increasing amounts of things normal people cannot see, which are generally very stressful. You could work them together like the Corruption/Depravity split in the Heroes of Horror implementation of Taint, but Arcane tracks too well with existing Caster/Manifester Level scaling, Insight as a prerequisite for Sanity checks is a closer modeling, and most importantly if you bundle them together like this avoiding Necropolitan Tainted Sorcerer problems is going to be obnoxious.

Blood Echoes as a diegetic contributor to XP and/or "Magic Mart" WBL shenanigans could be interesting, and the Bloodtinge/Beasthood setup is a much better choice for Taint-resembling mechanics.

Yora
2023-12-29, 04:13 AM
Forbidden Knowledge (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) rules

Madness Domain (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#madnessDomain) Granted Power

This has me immediately thinking of something that provides an Insight bonus to Psicraft and Use Psionic Device.

I had already been thinking that a first encounter with the eldritch grants characters Wild Talent (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#wildTalent) as a bonus feat.

Further exposures could add a Weird score that grants both an insight bonus to Psicraft and Use Psionic Device, and an insight penalty to saving throws against psionic powers. Maybe make the save penalty half that of the skill bonus to make it not completely terrible.
But since those modifiers probably shouldn't get any higher than +6/-3 or +8/-4, the kind of exposure to increase it should be pretty severe. Not simply encountering an aberration and being targeted by psionic powers.

I can also imagine a feat that decreases the penalty by -2 for characters who really want to embrace it.

Zombulian
2023-12-30, 11:10 PM
Love this concept.

Not sure how familiar you are with Pathfinder, but you might want to check out Horror Adventures, which has spells for contacting eldritch entities, plus rules for sanity, corruption, etc. Definitely worth a look.

If you’d prefer to stay 3.5, Heroes of Horror has very similar stuff.

Yora
2024-01-01, 01:19 PM
In the setting I have sketched out, fire and sunlight are both very harmful to aberrations, which is why they live deep underground, beneath the ocean, or in the plane of shadow.

With psionics being aberration magic, powers that deal fire or electricity damage wouldn't work. And inspired by the spells in bloodborne that are mostly streaks of white light, I was thinking about making all energy damage from powers into force damage. Just pure magic power.
Nothing has force resistance, which would make such force damage powers quite effective. But the energy damage powers already let you pick between fire, electricity, cold, and sonic any time you manifest them, precisely so you can bypass any energy resistance. So it's really not that much better in that regard.
Force effects also harm creatures that are ethereal. Since I am combining the ethereal and shadow plane together, anyone who can see invisible creatures can use force effects to target creatures on that transient plane. Which would mean aberrations or other creatures on the transient plane have to be more careful when observing psions and wilders on the material plane. Which is nice, but I don't know how often that could ever come up.

Any other thing I should consider before turning all psionic energy damage into force damage?

ShurikVch
2024-01-01, 06:26 PM
Some more stuff...

Classes:
Aberrant Paragon (Dragon #332) - 3-levels-long; at the capstone Type changes to Aberration; advancement 2/3 for spellcasting/manifesting/class features for Cleric, Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Alienist, Wilder, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, or Barbarian
Doomdreamer PrC (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil) - specialty priests of the Deity of Madness & the Void
Lunatic PrC (Book of Broken Dreams) - non-casting example of insane character; martial with Rage-like ability, resists mind-affecting abilities, stuns those who trying to read their mind, causing madness in other characters, got permanent True Seeing, and Confusion-inducing Gaze (strangely, BAB just 3/4 :smallconfused:)
Unholy Abomination PrC (Dragon #313) - 3-levels-long, must be Aberration, +1 on attacks/saves/checks; 3/day 60' negative energy ray (2 negative levels); in 60' radius creatures must make Will save or -2 on attacks/saves, adjacent creatures must make Fort save or suffer 1d4 Str damage
Worldbreaker PrC (Champions of Darkness) - cultist of Kali (with enforced Madness)
Wormhunter PrC (Dragon #338) - non-Evil character who benefits from worms inserted to their brain, and with inbuilt "Madness" mechanics (got "Gift of the Worm" - must also got "Madness", up to 3 times)

Feats:
Deformity (Madness) (Elder Evils)
Forbidden Lore (Heroes of Horror)
Lunatic Insight (Heroes of Horror)
Reflexive Psychosis (Elder Evils)