Distilled Joy Factory

[Shinoskay]

Ive seen plenty of liquid pain factories but not many distilled joy ones.

Playing a good character, No cliche answers like the nipple clamps magic item or brothels either.

Ive got access to miracle and wish, ive got a thought bottle.

[Bohandas]

Ive seen plenty of liquid pain factories but not many distilled joy ones.

Playing a good character, No cliche answers like the nipple clamps magic item or brothels either.

I assume no opium dens either then? Or LSD in the water supply? And certainly no skimming it off of people who are high on the product from the liquid pain factory?

I guess maybe like a ,agic toyshop/candy factory/whatever might be useful. Especially the candy one, people get hungry every day.

Or if you had a place with a lot of new parents you could probably produce both Ambrosia AND Garmonbozia.

[Shinoskay]

I assume no opium dens either then? Or LSD in the water supply? And certainly no skimming it off of people who are high on the product from the liquid pain factory?

I guess maybe like a ,agic toyshop/candy factory/whatever might be useful. Especially the candy one, people get hungry every day.

Or if you had a place with a lot of new parents you could probably produce both Ambrosia AND Garmonbozia.

ya, im not trying to make my people high.

toy/candy shop could work. I also want to use that one spell that whenever you cast enough of other spells it auto casts a specific spell.... have that running miracle, so all the good people can go to contribute to something and cash in lottery style on a miracle from mystr(a/yl)

[Anthrowhale]

Energy Transformation Field[Distilled Joy] in a brothel?

Reducing the casting time to something reasonable is important.

[Shinoskay]

Energy Transformation Field[Distilled Joy] in a brothel?



THATS the spell.

but no brothel suggestion was in my first post.

+2 points for reminding me the spell name, -5 for not bothering to read the whole first post.

[Crake]

Energy Transformation Field[Distilled Joy] in a brothel?


I assume no opium dens either then? Or LSD in the water supply? And certainly no skimming it off of people who are high on the product from the liquid pain factory?

Considering Distilled Joy, from the book of exalted deeds, creates ambrosia, an item that can be used in the creation of [Good] items, its pretty disingenuous to allow it to be created from vice and sin.

Wether or not it might be RAW, it's most definitely not RAI, and if you're playing an exalted character, or even just a regular good character, you would not be creating it from such sources.

[JNAProductions]

Considering Distilled Joy, from the book of exalted deeds, creates ambrosia, an item that can be used in the creation of [Good] items, its pretty disingenuous to allow it to be created from vice and sin.

Wether or not it might be RAW, it's most definitely not RAI, and if you're playing an exalted character, or even just a regular good character, you would not be creating it from such sources.

Drugging people without their knowledge and consent is bad, no argument there!
But is boning bad? What if it's a charity brothel? :P

Maybe set up with some local midwives? Include healing magics and similar to make birthing easier, and you should have parents who are ecstatic to see their kid for the first time.

[Shinoskay]

Drugging people without their knowledge and consent is bad, no argument there!
But is boning bad? What if it's a charity brothel? :P

Maybe set up with some local midwives? Include healing magics and similar to make birthing easier, and you should have parents who are ecstatic to see their kid for the first time.

yes, wonton and over casual debauchery (boning, especially in the name of charity) is indeed bad.

Modern society may have convinced people its not, but it is. Never even mind how rotten communities of debauched people tend to be(come). No. I already said dont mention brothels and you guys are super fixated on it like you cant think of anything else.

Love? however....
Productivity, success, sharing good things.

these are good kinds of happiness. I remember my last ex, we were together for almost a year and I gave her a rose. I'd never seen such a simple gift make someone so damn happy, and excited, before. Yes, we spent the next few hours in a bed but I could genuinely see how happy it made her and that very rose sat on her mantle even when I finally left her because she went off the deep end. even after it dried up, she kept it on display. it was amazing how happy that rose made her.

Thats something you can distilled joy from. Those small, cherished moments.... those acts of love and moments of passionate elation.
Or maybe when people go to a band and the music moves people to lose themselves in the sound and story the performers take them through.

I need build ideas for things like that.... an auditorium or something.

[Bohandas]

Love? however....

That's what I meant when I said that they need to get a lot of new parents with their little babies together. And extract distilled joy from that.

This also has the perverse advantage that you can ALSO extract liquid pain from the SAME people because they also undergo the kind of sleep deprivstion that if you inflicted it on a prisioner it would be a war crime

[Fero]

What if, every year, you travel to the homes of all of the children and leave them wonderful gifts alongside some sort of Contingent Distilled Joy that triggers when they Awaken to see the gifts?

[Paragon]

yes, wonton and over casual debauchery (boning, especially in the name of charity) is indeed bad.

Modern society may have convinced people its not, but it is. Never even mind how rotten communities of debauched people tend to be(come). No. I already said dont mention brothels and you guys are super fixated on it like you cant think of anything else.


While I agree that the "no brothel" clause you made is unquestionable (since you define the boundaries of your own question), the "debauchery is bad" conclusion is simply not for you to decide.

D&D is a game with its own rules and if you take Sharess for exemple, they are a CG deity with the Charm, Envy, Lust and Pleasure domains.
In her description you find stuff like
"encouraged her followers to spread pleasure to all" or

The Church of Sharess was of casual nature, and her clergy were responsible for the running of many festhalls found throughout large cities in Faerûn. These festhalls sought to indulge every pleasure imaginable

Anyway, you're free to pick whatever you want from the game and leave out what you disagree with but you can't assert rules that aren't there.

What's more, to close this debate altogether, the Distilled Joy spell itself mentions that it "can be cast on [...] a character experiencing a moment of rapture or undiluted sexual pleasure."
The End.

But all of this doesn't really answer your post. Just wanted to make that point clear

[Shinoskay]

While I agree that the "no brothel" clause you made is unquestionable (since you define the boundaries of your own question), the "debauchery is bad" conclusion is simply not for you to decide.

D&D is a game with its own rules and if you take Sharess for exemple, they are a CG deity with the Charm, Envy, Lust and Pleasure domains.
In her description you find stuff like
"encouraged her followers to spread pleasure to all" or


Anyway, you're free to pick whatever you want from the game and leave out what you disagree with but you can't assert rules that aren't there.

What's more, to close this debate altogether, the Distilled Joy spell itself mentions that it "can be cast on [...] a character experiencing a moment of rapture or undiluted sexual pleasure."
The End.

But all of this doesn't really answer your post. Just wanted to make that point clear

well, since you want to derail my thread with stupid discussions of morality and ethics.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sharess#cite_note-CotR-17-13

Debauchary and hedonism are corrupting things,

de·bauch·er·y
/dəˈbôCHərē,dəˈbäCHərē/
noun
noun: debauchery; plural noun: debaucheries

excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures.

never even mind the health, mental and physical, problems that comes from such lifestyles... including how hedonism often gateways into higher forms of abuse such as drugs, bondage, and more.... but theres also that dnd is KNOWN for a poor sense of good and bad across the board. Orcs were once considered evil or chaotic, kobolds, goblins, and more.... all now allowed as neutral and good player races yet in the passed they were iconicly evil. Hell, we are now seeing crazy undead races like vampire esque races or even drow who arent evil.

Just because sharess is LISTED as CG doesnt mean her portfolios are good things.

Pharasma does some pretty ****ed up things but is considered neutral.
The original mystryl supported selune.... the bringer of all life... and stood against shar the goddess of dark but was a CN goddess with evil followers.

you CANNOT gauge morality or ethics based on a goddesses listed alignment or supposed purviews.

Debauchery and Hedonism are DOCUMENTED things that corrupts and rots society and people, there is no debating that.

[icefractal]

Pretty sure smuggling in "excessive" in the definition of "debauchery" (a word you are the one who started using) is circular reasoning.

Yeah, excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures is non-ideal by definition, since if it wasn't it wouldn't be excessive. What does that prove? Nothing. If your standard is that "enjoying sex without having an established relationship is evil" then, well, I disagree with you and so does the published D&D material. :smallconfused: I mean, run your game how you want, but don't be stating opinions like they were facts.

I mean, I could suggest that you operate a restaurant serving incredible food, which has the advantage that the people experiencing the joy are conveniently located in one place (harder to set up the necessary infrastructure for events that occur unexpectedly in the course of life). But I guess that would be "sinful" too, since excessive eating causes health problems.

Or it could be a theatre where people heard amazing performances - except that, oh look, that's bad when you take it too an excess too - if everyone stays in the theatre forever and never wants to leave, they'll starve to death! :smallamused:

But as for an answer, it's pretty much something like that. Joy from great experiences. Not everyone will have a strong enough reaction to produce Distilled Joy, but if even 10% do then that's still a heck of a lot easier than trying to mastermind people's life events so joyful ones occur at a time/place where you're ready to collect. Energy Transformation Field not being mobile and all.


Edit: Sidebar -
So I re-read the spell in question and ... how the heck do you cast this without being so intrusive as to interfere with the joy you're trying to capture? I mean, it's already confusing that it takes an entire day to cast, but yet mentions a character experiencing "a moment of rapture". But it also has Range: Touch! Yeah, please ignore my standing next to you with my hand on your back all day while you're trying to craft an artistic masterpiece or peacefully relax or whatnot.

But also - it's any living creature! I'd somehow remembered it as needing Int 3+, but no. So, dogs seem like a good source, lots of things make them joyful.

[Paragon]

well, since you want to derail my thread with stupid discussions of morality and ethics.

I was going for the opposite actually ^^

Trying to rerail the fact we're talking about a game with hardcoded rules (whether they make sense or not, that's not the point) and such rules allow stuff or forbid it and that's the purpose of this forum.

Deity having a portefolio means they do indeed defend those ideas. Deity being CG means their portefolio can exist in some form, on this side of the good/bad axis, that's not up for debate (in D&D).

[Telonius]

I think it'd have to be a Fantasy Island situation. An extraordinarily skilled Illusionist (teamed up with a Transmuter), and possibly a troupe of Changelings. The idea is you give people their wildest fantasy, and teach them a lesson; they agree to let you cast the spell as they're blissing out on their happy ending.

[Shinoskay]

Pretty sure smuggling in "excessive" in the definition of "debauchery" (a word you are the one who started using) is circular reasoning.


Nothing was smuggled in, I googled debauchary and posted the result. Which is what a distilled joy brothel, or the act of spreading pleasure, would be.

Hedonism also often leads to swinging, which breaks/destroys families. There is a reason polygamy is often frowned on, rare, and polygamic marriages were outlawed.

relationships need to be balanced and disciplined. It is an exception, not a norm, that people can juggle more sexual (or even romantic) connections. And I dont just speak from theoreticals, Ive been on fet websites and communities for over 16 years now. even dated a few people who tried juggling multiple partners and they almost always ended up monogomous because drama and verious distresses funneled it there.

No, its not just that its non ideal.... its destructive/corruptive.

you are the one smuggling definitions in though because I never said it was evil nor did I say anything sex without relationship. You just cant see the nuances beyond something that contradicts your understandings or standards for life



I mean, I could suggest that you operate a restaurant serving incredible food, which has the advantage that the people experiencing the joy are conveniently located in one place (harder to set up the necessary infrastructure for events that occur unexpectedly in the course of life). But I guess that would be "sinful" too, since excessive eating causes health problems.

Or it could be a theatre where people heard amazing performances - except that, oh look, that's bad when you take it too an excess too - if everyone stays in the theatre forever and never wants to leave, they'll starve to death!

These were all pretty much already suggested.

However, your animal suggestion actually does break ground.


Trying to rerail the fact we're talking about a game with hardcoded rules (whether they make sense or not, that's not the point) and such rules allow stuff or forbid it and that's the purpose of this forum.

Sure, and my point is that one niche god isnt going to allow you to determine the alignment identifier for hedonism or debauchary. after all, theres a whole layer of hell (lust) and a multitude of demons all surrounding the idea of undisciplined (OR EXCESSIVE) sex, including adultery, sex out of marriage, and etc.

And celibacy has some positive feats as well.

One misplaced egyption god of pleasure does not mean sex is good.

A fantasy island would be possible, my char is an illusionist after all (shadowcraft mage build).
in addition, a magical trap could be set to trigger when people are elated or otherwise emotionally qualified for the spell. Easy enough.

[Malphegor]

Pretty sure smuggling in "excessive" in the definition of "debauchery" (a word you are the one who started using) is circular reasoning.

Yeah, excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures is non-ideal by definition, since if it wasn't it wouldn't be excessive. What does that prove? Nothing. If your standard is that "enjoying sex without having an established relationship is evil" then, well, I disagree with you and so does the published D&D material. :smallconfused: I mean, run your game how you want, but don't be stating opinions like they were facts.

I mean, I could suggest that you operate a restaurant serving incredible food, which has the advantage that the people experiencing the joy are conveniently located in one place (harder to set up the necessary infrastructure for events that occur unexpectedly in the course of life). But I guess that would be "sinful" too, since excessive eating causes health problems.

Or it could be a theatre where people heard amazing performances - except that, oh look, that's bad when you take it too an excess too - if everyone stays in the theatre forever and never wants to leave, they'll starve to death! :smallamused:

But as for an answer, it's pretty much something like that. Joy from great experiences. Not everyone will have a strong enough reaction to produce Distilled Joy, but if even 10% do then that's still a heck of a lot easier than trying to mastermind people's life events so joyful ones occur at a time/place where you're ready to collect. Energy Transformation Field not being mobile and all.


Edit: Sidebar -
So I re-read the spell in question and ... how the heck do you cast this without being so intrusive as to interfere with the joy you're trying to capture? I mean, it's already confusing that it takes an entire day to cast, but yet mentions a character experiencing "a moment of rapture". But it also has Range: Touch! Yeah, please ignore my standing next to you with my hand on your back all day while you're trying to craft an artistic masterpiece or peacefully relax or whatnot.

But also - it's any living creature! I'd somehow remembered it as needing Int 3+, but no. So, dogs seem like a good source, lots of things make them joyful.

You can circumvent the casting time pretty easily, from memory the easiest way would be to get a runecaster to give them a vial with a permament rune of Distill Joy. "Please press the rune whenever you feel good, and if you return a full vial to the helpdesk, you will get 10% of its value as a refund on your ticket after the show is done"

[Crake]

What if, every year, you travel to the homes of all of the children and leave them wonderful gifts alongside some sort of Contingent Distilled Joy that triggers when they Awaken to see the gifts?

Haha, this one actually made me legit laugh. Good in character explanation for Santa's yearly tradition.

That being said, I think there's something innately... wrong about trying to formulaicly "farm" distilled joy. Joy is not something that should be able to be triggered on demand, and doing so would, I think, fundamentally cheapen and dilute said joy, and by trying to force it, in an attempt to extract it for personal gain, I think it detracts from the [Good] nature of the product, as you're succumbing to the vice of greed in your attempt to force the production of this substance.

[Bohandas]

*a giant room filled with happy puppies/kittens
*stand-up comedy
*an ordinary massage parlor that doesn't do happy endings or any of that
*really unhealthy food, like pizza and donuts and double hamburgers
*sadistic people get a tour of the local slaughterhouse
*free money
*facility makes excuses for people allowing them to spend the day there instead of at work
*free icecream

[gijoemike]

The way I have always interpreted distill joy/pain is that it takes a full day to cast but then you are holding a touch spell charge. Then when you witness joy/pain you pat the target on the back and you take a bit. This would normally prevent the caster from casting spells to cause the joy/pain.

So to get around this you have to have instant triggers that complete joy/pain in a single action. But I think we have that figured out in this case. So we can skip all the prep work.

1. Run a wedding venue at little cost. At least 1 person is genuinely joyful at a wedding ( usually the bride ).
......a the downside is this is once a day or once every few days.
2. Go to a war ravaged town, walk to the graveyard. Find parents visiting their child's grave. Cast Resurrection without warning.
......this is highly mobile. But guaranteed to cause joy.
3. Go to a famine struck village. Cast hero's feast in the town square.
...... this is also highly mobile but affects dozens of people at once.

[redking]

Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?256544-nipple-clamp-of-exquisite-pain) + any form of torture.

[Crake]

Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?256544-nipple-clamp-of-exquisite-pain) + any form of torture.


No cliche answers like the nipple clamps magic item or brothels either.

Failed to read the assignment.

[Chronos]

Quoth Crake:

That being said, I think there's something innately... wrong about trying to formulaicly "farm" distilled joy. Joy is not something that should be able to be triggered on demand, and doing so would, I think, fundamentally cheapen and dilute said joy, and by trying to force it, in an attempt to extract it for personal gain, I think it detracts from the [Good] nature of the product, as you're succumbing to the vice of greed in your attempt to force the production of this substance.
I guess I can sort of see the argument... but then, surely that would apply to any casting of the spell? But the spell exists, and so there must be some way you can use it. And surely, if going about your day and looking for incidental moments of joy (to take advantage of them) is Good, then going about your day and actively creating moments of joy for others should be even better.

[Crake]

then going about your day and actively creating moments of joy for others should be even better.

Right, but joy is different for all people, and actively trying to give joy to people requires effort, learning about the person finding out what they enjoy, and putting work into bringing said joy to them.

It's different from the forumlaeic automation of "insert person to produce joy" in the form of a factory of sorts.

[Khedrac]

I think a better option would be something like a fun-fair. Young kids specifically seem to get a lot more job out of simple pleasures like a bouncy castle. Anything where you have a lot of young kids running around screaming in pleasure should work (though you may have problems with the touch range).
Make it free to the parents and make sure there is adequate supervision and then you are providing a good service to the people at the same time as extracting the joy for your use.

[icefractal]

Right, but joy is different for all people, and actively trying to give joy to people requires effort, learning about the person finding out what they enjoy, and putting work into bringing said joy to them.

It's different from the forumlaeic automation of "insert person to produce joy" in the form of a factory of sorts.I think this is a case where the BoED being an inverted version of the BoVD really shows.

The counterpart spell (Liquid Pain) is fine. Because keeping someone who you're torturing captive in a specific place for an entire day, and having the torture occur based on your convenience rather than theirs is ... pretty normal for torture. Or even let's say you're being less evil and just taking advantage of pre-existing pain - still works fine, terminally ill people don't tend to travel around much. No thematic mismatch there.


But for Distilled Joy, many forms of joy are unpredictable in where they occur. And trying to force the joy to happen at a specific place/time seems less thematically appropriate.

Like, let's say I was an exalted character and had the goal of increasing romantic love (specifically) in a particular city. I might do some things like:
* Run a matchmaking service which aims for true love
* Offer free couple's counseling
* Put on performances and events that promote romantic love

But even if those are 100% successful, they result in ... a number of instances of joy occurring at times and places that I can't predict, spread out across probably weeks or months. And many of which would be made awkward by having me standing there with my hand on one of their shoulders.

There's also the question of "Does it mean like a real epiphany of joy, a life-changing moment ... or just an enjoyable experience?" Because the examples are kind of ambiguous in that regard. IMO, for the small effect a single dose of joy has, the latter is more appropriate.


Also, yes, I'm aware there are ways to skip the casting time - but if those ways are required for the spell to make sense, then the spell is badly written.

[Crake]

Also, yes, I'm aware there are ways to skip the casting time - but if those ways are required for the spell to make sense, then the spell is badly written.

I can definitely agree that the casting time is quite impractical almost to the point of being dysfunctional. The only solution I can reasonably imagine in my mind is that the celestial cities, where joy is almost ubiquitous, must have wondrous architecture throughout the whole city, that is just casting the spell 24/7 on all the denizens of the city, and harvesting whatever joy happens to be incidentally being produced at the time.

[Khatoblepas]

You don't need to be around the person experiencing joy to cast the spell, you can just cast Distilled Joy and hold the charge, since it is a touch spell that affects one target. In fact, since it is a touch spell you can cast it and let your familiar go out and find someone experiencing joy.

You could also be an Enlightened Fist:


Arcane Fist (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, an enlightened fist can spend one of her daily stunning attempts to cast and deliver a touch spell as part of an unarmed full attack action. She can choose to deliver the touch spell with any single unarmed strike attack she makes during the action.

Simply use one of your stunning fist attempts and slap the joy out of someone.

[Saintheart]

Distilled Joy factories are straightforward with runes from the FRCS.

One room, two doors, one in, one out.

On the first doorway, inscribe a permanent read/pass-activated rune of Elation (BoED).

On the second doorway, inscribe a permanent read/pass-activated rune of Distilled Joy.

Walk people through the doors in sequence. First door, by RAW of the spell, fills the target with joy. Second door produces the ambrosia.

Charge people 1 gold each to feel intense joy just by walking through two doors. This covers the cost of the vial to store the ambrosia.

[YellowJohn]

The way I have always interpreted distill joy/pain is that it takes a full day to cast but then you are holding a touch spell charge. Then when you witness joy/pain you pat the target on the back and you take a bit. This would normally prevent the caster from casting spells to cause the joy/pain.

So to get around this you have to have instant triggers that complete joy/pain in a single action. But I think we have that figured out in this case. So we can skip all the prep work.

1. Run a wedding venue at little cost. At least 1 person is genuinely joyful at a wedding ( usually the bride ).
......a the downside is this is once a day or once every few days.
2. Go to a war ravaged town, walk to the graveyard. Find parents visiting their child's grave. Cast Resurrection without warning.
......this is highly mobile. But guaranteed to cause joy.
3. Go to a famine struck village. Cast hero's feast in the town square.
...... this is also highly mobile but affects dozens of people at once.

This post appears to have been overlooked, but it looks like gijoemike has made an excellent point.

I'd like to add that the 'Rapid Spell' metamagic feat (CD) knocks the casting time down to a much less unreasonable 1 hour ("rapid spells with casting times measured in hours can be cast in 1 hour") for only a +1 level adjustment.
The 'Spell Flower' spell (SC) provides a way to hold the charge while casting other spells - maybe hold the charge on multiple instances - though you will need to persist it to make it useful which requires a very high level caster.

The churches of Lastai probably have no shortage of people wanting to marry there. Any that have clerics capable of casting (rapid) distilled joy are likely to make a few doses a week in a large city.