Poisoning the Poison Immune

[pabelfly]

I want to play a high-level character (level 13+) that uses poison. I understand that this is typically a bad strategy since a lot of enemies at high-level are immune to poison, but there are also some poisons that bypass this immunity, such as "Magic-Infused Poisons" in Drow of the Underdark, p94-95, and Devilseye and Bailisk Breath poisons from Book of Vile Darkness, but have the downsides of being quite expensive.

1) What other sources of poisons are there that specifically bypass poison immunity?
2) Alternatively, are there any abilities (not spells) that let me poison enemies I couldn't normally poison?
2) While researching this subject, I found this post:


I've also seen poisons in a module that were "abyssal poison" that specifically said people immune to poison were not immune to this.

However, there was no further elaboration upon this post, and I can't find what this module is. Does anyone have any further information about this?

[Silly Name]

Ravages, from The Book of Exalted Deeds, bypass Poison immunties and resistances because they're not really poisons. However, they only work on Evil creatures, and aren't exactly cheap either. But you also can take the Touch of Golden Ice lets you deliver the Golden Ice ravage (DC 14, 1d6 Dex/2d6 Dex) by touch, or by striking a creature with Unarmed Attacks or natural weapons.

Again, only works on Evil creatures, but it's not that big of a restriction in your average campaign. It is an Exalted feat, however.

[Inevitability]

The Aspect of Sertrous from Elder Evils has the following ability:


Poisoner’s Breath (Su) Sertrous’s breath fills a 240-foot-radius spread around him. Any creature that breathes this foul air must succeed on a DC 33 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round. This breath suppresses any immunity to poison a victim possesses for as long as it remains within the area plus an additional 2d6 rounds after it leaves the area

As a 23HD outsider, it can be called with a Gate spell.

[Saintheart]

Ravages, from The Book of Exalted Deeds, bypass Poison immunties and resistances because they're not really poisons. However, they only work on Evil creatures, and aren't exactly cheap either. But you also can take the Touch of Golden Ice lets you deliver the Golden Ice ravage (DC 14, 1d6 Dex/2d6 Dex) by touch, or by striking a creature with Unarmed Attacks or natural weapons.

Again, only works on Evil creatures, but it's not that big of a restriction in your average campaign. It is an Exalted feat, however.

It's worth getting clarification from a DM about how Touch of Golden Ice works, because for a start Exalted feats are explicitly Supernatural abilities, i.e. no Spell Resistance and incorporeality doesn't stop it. Which also then means you also have to check how its saving throws work, since (Su) ability saving throws key off hit dice and CHA bonus, while the Golden Ice ravage itself is presumably set at DC 14. (Indeed whether Touch of Golden Ice attracts a saving throw is a question in itself, since the RAW of the feat says on touch the target is 'afflicted with' Golden Ice. Not to mention, since it's ability damage, whether a second hit with the feat means a new iteration of Dex damage.)

On Poison Immunity, crediting Anthrowhale here, but there's 3 flat-out cases of bypassing poison:

Molydeus (FC 1): it's a monster, but accessible under Shapechange, and cuts straight through poison immunity. Useful if you're fighting demons in particular, but it doesn't go through poison immunity granted by constructs, oozes, plants, or the undead type.

Sertrous (EldEvls): ... okay, he's an Elder Evil, but at least he does the same thing a Molydeus does.

Shaktari (Dragon #359. p. 50): also a high-end outsider, but exudes an aura meaning everything within 120 feet is not immune to poison (construct, undead, and elemtnals remain unaffected.)

[ShurikVch]

Also:

Epic Poisons (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101180816/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021110a)

Positoxins (Libris Mortis)

Spark of Life (Spell Compendium)

Greater Humanoid Essence (Races of Eberron)

Baleful Polymorph/Polymorph Any Object - to remove Type-based immunity

[Beni-Kujaku]

As a reminder, even if something bypasses poison immunity, Undead and Constructs are still immune to anything requiring a Fort save.

[Silly Name]

It's worth getting clarification from a DM about how Touch of Golden Ice works, because for a start Exalted feats are explicitly Supernatural abilities, i.e. no Spell Resistance and incorporeality doesn't stop it. Which also then means you also have to check how its saving throws work, since (Su) ability saving throws key off hit dice and CHA bonus, while the Golden Ice ravage itself is presumably set at DC 14. (Indeed whether Touch of Golden Ice attracts a saving throw is a question in itself, since the RAW of the feat says on touch the target is 'afflicted with' Golden Ice.

Ravages and Afflictions are explicitly Supernatural anyways, so there's not much arguing there, IMHO. Same with the DC being the same as the base Golden Ice ravage, since the feat doesn't say anything in regards to that, and RAI is probably not that it automatically procs with every hit.


(Not to mention, since it's ability damage, whether a second hit with the feat means a new iteration of Dex damage.)

I don't see why not? The rules on ability damage say nothing about the effects not stacking, and likewise the rules for poison state that different instances of the same poison all trigger the damage separately.

[SangoProduction]

There are a few options for this in Spheres of Power, if you're interested.

[Beni-Kujaku]

There are a few options for this in Spheres of Power, if you're interested.

After a few years reading your posts‚ I am now convinced you could put this in your signature‚ because it fits in every single one of them.

[SangoProduction]

After a few years reading your posts‚ I am now convinced you could put this in your signature‚ because it fits in every single one of them.

lol. True enough.

[astrerouge]

There are a few options for this in Spheres of Power, if you're interested.

also 3rd party pathfinder, in akashic magic there are some veils that bypass poison immunities, in particular the venomous title veil (can be found on library of metzofitz or on the sphere of power wiki in the akashic section). There is also the volur class which can gain an ability that gives an aura that ignore poison immunity as well as immunity to fort saves tied to poison, there is a feat chain that can get you this ability but it is quite late as well as needing approval for pathfinder 3rd party content. Also some mention should be giving that there is not a lot of ability damaging poison in akashic magic, there is one or 2 veils with poison effrects that deal hp damage, otherwise there is one or 2 storm veils that deal poisons in area.
I would say to be careful if introducing these systems in 3.5 cause the classes in it have way more features than standard 3.5 classes

would strongly recommend these systems they are awesome but put a 3.5 fighter or monk next to any of the sphere or akashic classes and someone is gonna feel lackluster

[ShurikVch]

If 3rd-party stuff is OK, then A Poisoner's Handbook (Bastion Press) has some options:

Cryptbane
Contact Poison; DC 16; Initial Damage: 2d12 hp for Undead, 1d6 for living creatures, 1d12 for untreated or vulnerable items like timber and fur cloaks, 1d6 for like cuir-bouilli or lacquered wood; Secondary Damage: None; Price: 450 gp; Craft DC: 28
Affects Undead - ignores their immunity to poisons and DR (if any); Undead fast healing unable to restore damage from Cryptbane

Rok'neth
Ingested Poison; DC 20; Initial Damage: None; Secondary Damage: 1 Con; Price: 25 gp; Craft DC: 10
Ignores Druids' Venom Immunity

Quagmire
Inhaled/Injury Poison; DC 17; Initial Damage: Unconsciousness for 1d4 rounds; Secondary Damage: Death; Price: 1700 gp; Craft DC: 26
This poison also affects Vampires: they act like under the Slow spell for 1d4+1 rounds

Banesblood - magical poison; works only for one kind of creatures (pick from the Favored Enemies list)
Ingested/Inhaled/Injury Poison; DC 19; Initial Damage: 1d6 Con; Secondary Damage: 1d6 Con; Price: 3000 gp; Craft DC: 29
Ignores any common immunities of target creatures (although still incapable to damage "Con: -"; probably should do hp damage to such creatures - variant rule from the book suggest 24 damage at second failed save and 23-22-21-... every subsequent round creature stays poisoned, until either numbers reach 0 or poison is removed)

Magia cantharis - magical poison: affects target with some spell (any spell from 1st to 3rd level)
Contact/Ingested/Inhaled/Injury Poison; DC 12 + Spell level; Initial Damage: Spell effect; Secondary Damage: None; Craft DC: 23; CL 5, Brew Magical Poison, the spell, Price: 1000 gp (Type A), 2500 gp (Type B)
Type B don't allow saving throw vs poison (vs spell is still possible - if any) and ignores immunities and resistances to poison

Poison Susceptibility spell (Cleric 8) - all creatures in 30' cube become susceptible to all poisons (even their own natural poisons, although they get +2 on saves against it); creatures without immunity to poisons still got -6 on saves vs poisons and any poison-related ability damage they suffering increases by 2

[Shinoskay]

I want to play a high-level character (level 13+) that uses poison. I understand that this is typically a bad strategy since a lot of enemies at high-level are immune to poison, but there are also some poisons that bypass this immunity, such as "Magic-Infused Poisons" in Drow of the Underdark, p94-95, and Devilseye and Bailisk Breath poisons from Book of Vile Darkness, but have the downsides of being quite expensive.

1) What other sources of poisons are there that specifically bypass poison immunity?
2) Alternatively, are there any abilities (not spells) that let me poison enemies I couldn't normally poison?
2) While researching this subject, I found this post:



However, there was no further elaboration upon this post, and I can't find what this module is. Does anyone have any further information about this?

Some of the best poisons arent actually poisons....

like, if it breaths change the air to suffocate it. a poison gas that removes oxygen will get most bad guys that breath.
undead are NOT immune to parasytic plants, theres even a template for some undead that have survived a parasytic plant.

theres also diseases, especially magic diseases. Some diseases work on constructs.... some on undead. I think only monks and druids are 100 percent immune to diseases.... maybe some other prcs.

at high level you need to get more creative, thats all.

[Clause]

Its not nessessairly poison, but, RAVAGER prc, gives sometimes/day a cruelest cut, that deals 1d4 cons damage (NO SAVE). There is a sneak attack feat, that supress 4 dices of SA, for the same effect.

Aboleth mucus, (LoM) make his victims cant breath air.

Disrupt chi, feat, trade a stun atack to cause cons damage, similar to poison, but, no poison.

[Saintheart]

Its not nessessairly poison, but, RAVAGER prc, gives sometimes/day a cruelest cut, that deals 1d4 cons damage (NO SAVE). There is a sneak attack feat, that supress 4 dices of SA, for the same effect.

Aboleth mucus, (LoM) make his victims cant breath air.

Disrupt chi, feat, trade a stun atack to cause cons damage, similar to poison, but, no poison.

Self-promotion, but I made a small resource/index covering all the ways you can do damage to an ability score. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?655915-Ability-Damage-Resource-2-0)

Where does Disrupt Chi come from? I had thought I'd made a pretty complete survey of ability-damaging option, but that one slipped by me.

[Clause]

Where does Disrupt Chi come from? I had thought I'd made a pretty complete survey of ability-damaging option, but that one slipped by me.

Sorry about my error. The feat name is RATTLESNAKE STRIKE. And it is from sandstorm.

The descriprion of the feat especify that you introduce a "disruptive chi" in the enemy. And the words impregnated my mind making me to lapse the feat name