Making Archmage and Mage actually survivable

[HoboKnight]

Hey guys,
the other evening, my party got in a scuffle in front of Candlekeep. As per module(Candlekeep Mysteries) four mages and four archmages appeared to enforce peace, but I realized my party would squish them in a turn if they wanted.
Why?
My party is only lvl 13 (4 paladins, 1 optimised ranged fighter), meaning:
- average AC 22
- hp 100+
- +10 to-hit, easily 50 dmg per hit with divine smite
- optimised ranged fighter: +10 to hit, four times average damage 20 per round
- different fear-related AoE affects
- three javelins of lightning, great AoE
- Haste spell
... and a lot of other shenanigans.

Now this is more a thought experiment then preparing an actual encounter for my party. TBH, I was a bit ashamed, ancient guardians of Candlekeep, who have surely seen such and stronger partyes, to bring to the table only vanilla Archmages and Mages who could, hands down, do very little vs my party. If one of the Archmages goes first, he casts Time Stop, but TBH all of his buffs during the rounds he gets do very little vs. my party. With my party, monster AC and hp are becoming irrelevant and for higher-level game play, this makes sense.

So I have decided to just switch out a few spells for archmages and I'd appreciate a short review:

Archmage idea: Wish instead of Time stop. Only function of Wish is an ability to replicate lower level spells such as Clone and Simulacrum(what other long-lasting spells could Wish replicate? Did I forget any?). Anyway, AM casts Clone, so he is rather safe from death. As an additional precaution, he orders Simulacrums to chain-casts Simulacrum, so he can bring a large amount of simulacrums to the table with same spells. By AM and Sims spamming Maze, Sims can "bounce out of the action" a few enemies, while the others gang up on the one enemy left present.

Mass suggestion is meant due to non-murderhobo-y nature of Candlekeep wizards. (An idea is a command: "please, lay down your weapons and have Sim45 here store them safely in a Candlekeep, while we all talk this over a cup of tea".) Teleport is "get out of trouble" card.

Spells of lvl 5 and below are IMHO only partially relevant for this. Things end or go awry in a first round or two.

I was also thinking of giving AMs a single item up to very rare. Perhaps a Weapon of warning, so they can roll Init with advantage.

General advice/criticism very welcome. Edited AM/Sim/Mage stats here:

Mages, Archmages Candlekeep

Archmage
Medium humanoid (any race), any alignment
AC 12 (15 With Mage Armor)
Hit Points 99 (18d8+18) Speed 30 ft.
STR10 (+0) DEX14 (+2) CON12 (+1) INT20 (+5) WIS15 (+2) CHA16 (+3)
Saving Throws Int +9, Wis +6
Skills Arcana +13, History +13
Senses Darkvision 60ft.
Damage Resistance Damage From Spells
Senses passive Perception 12
Languages Any Six Languages
Challenge 12 (8,400 XP)
Magic Resistance. The archmage has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.Spellcasting. The archmage is an 18th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit with spell attacks). The archmage can cast disguise self and invisibility at will and has the following wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): fire bolt, light, mage hand, prestidigitation, shocking grasp
1st level (4 slots): detect magic, identify, mage armor*, magic missile
2nd level (3 slots): enlarge/reduce, mirror image, misty step
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell,fly, fireball
4th level (3 slots): banishment, black tentacles, greater invisibility
5th level (3 slots): cone of cold, scrying, wall of force
6th level (1 slot): Mass Suggestion
7th level (1 slot): teleport
8th level (1 slot): Maze
9th level (1 slot): Wish(used for Clone and Simulacrum in the past)
Actions
Dagger. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.
Dagger. Ranged Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.

Sim Archmage
Medium humanoid (any race), any alignment
AC 12 (15 With Mage Armor)
Hit Points 49 (18d8+18) Speed 30 ft.
STR10 (+0) DEX14 (+2) CON12 (+1) INT20 (+5) WIS15 (+2) CHA16 (+3)
Saving Throws Int +9, Wis +6
Skills Arcana +13, History +13
Senses Darkvision 60ft.
Damage Resistance Damage From Spells
Senses passive Perception 12
Languages Any Six Languages
Challenge 12 (8,400 XP)
Magic Resistance. The archmage has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.Spellcasting. The archmage is an 18th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit with spell attacks). The archmage can cast disguise self and invisibility at will and has the following wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): fire bolt, light, mage hand, prestidigitation, shocking grasp
1st level (4 slots): detect magic, identify, mage armor*, magic missile
2nd level (3 slots): enlarge/reduce, mirror image, misty step
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell,fly, fireball
4th level (3 slots): banishment, black tentacles, greater invisibility
5th level (3 slots): cone of cold, scrying, wall of force
6th level (1 slot): Mass Suggestion
7th level (1 slot): teleport
8th level (1 slot): Maze
9th level (1 slot): Wish(used for Simulacrum in the past)
Actions
Dagger. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.
Dagger. Ranged Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.




Mage
Medium humanoid (any race), Any Alignment
Armor Class 12 (15 With Mage Armor)
Hit Points 40 (9d8)
Speed 30 ft.

STR9(-1) DEX14(+2) CON11(+0) INT17 (+3) WIS12 (+1) CHA 11 (+0)

Saving Throws Int +6, Wis +4
Skills Arcana +6, History +6
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Any Four Languages
Challenge 6 (2,300 XP)

Spellcasting. The mage is a 9th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 14, +6 to hit with spell attacks). The mage has the following wizard spells prepared:

• Cantrips (at will): Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion, Mold Earth, Ray of Frost
• 1st level (4 slots): absorb elements, mage armor, shield, Command
• 2nd level (3 slots): misty step, hold person
• 3rd level (3 slots): Hypnotic pattern, Counterspell, Dispel Magic
• 4th level (3 slots): Banishment, ice storm
• 5th level (1 slot): Synaptic static

Actions

Dagger. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.
Dagger. Ranged Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.

[Unoriginal]

Hey guys,
the other evening, my party got in a scuffle in front of Candlekeep. As per module(Candlekeep Mysteries) four mages and four archmages appeared to enforce peace, but I realized my party would squish them in a turn if they wanted.
Why?
My party is only lvl 13 (4 paladins, 1 optimised ranged fighter), meaning:
- average AC 22
- hp 100+
- +10 to-hit, easily 50 dmg per hit with divine smite
- optimised ranged fighter: +10 to hit, four times average damage 20 per round
- different fear-related AoE affects
- three javelins of lightning, great AoE
- Haste spell
... and a lot of other shenanigans.

Now this is more a thought experiment then preparing an actual encounter for my party. TBH, I was a bit ashamed, ancient guardians of Candlekeep, who have surely seen such and stronger partyes, to bring to the table only vanilla Archmages and Mages who could, hands down, do very little vs my party. If one of the Archmages goes first, he casts Time Stop, but TBH all of his buffs during the rounds he gets do very little vs. my party. With my party, monster AC and hp are becoming irrelevant and for higher-level game play, this makes sense.

So I have decided to just switch out a few spells for archmages and I'd appreciate a short review:

Archmage idea: Wish instead of Time stop. Only function of Wish is an ability to replicate lower level spells such as Clone and Simulacrum(what other long-lasting spells could Wish replicate? Did I forget any?). Anyway, AM casts Clone, so he is rather safe from death. As an additional precaution, he orders Simulacrums to chain-casts Simulacrum, so he can bring a large amount of simulacrums to the table with same spells. By AM and Sims spamming Maze, Sims can "bounce out of the action" a few enemies, while the others gang up on the one enemy left present.

Mass suggestion is meant due to non-murderhobo-y nature of Candlekeep wizards. (An idea is a command: "please, lay down your weapons and have Sim45 here store them safely in a Candlekeep, while we all talk this over a cup of tea".) Teleport is "get out of trouble" card.

Spells of lvl 5 and below are IMHO only partially relevant for this. Things end or go awry in a first round or two.

I was also thinking of giving AMs a single item up to very rare. Perhaps a Weapon of warning, so they can roll Init with advantage.

General advice/criticism very welcome.

1)Given that a party of 5 lvl 13 can fight and Archduke of Hell on the layer they rule and has a chance to win, it is *quite* unlikely that Candlekeep had to fight off such power since the days of old, where magic was much stronger.

2) Just have one of the Archmage use Gate to bring in a Marut. I can guarantee your PCs aren't ready for that.

3) If you don't want 2), then have one Archmage go for Forecage and the other shows up True Polymorphed or Shapechanged as a Medusa. Then the Medusarchmage can just look at the PCs until they fail a save.

[JackPhoenix]

Replace Teleport with Forcecage.
"But being hit with Forcecage isn't fun for players!"
That's the point. They are there to enforce peace, not to entertain you.

[Unoriginal]

Replace Teleport with Forcecage.
"But being hit with Forcecage isn't fun for players!"
That's the point. They are there to enforce peace, not to entertain you.

Indeed.

Same points apply to Gating a Marut.

[HoboKnight]

You two again :3 He he I love your help in many of my threads.

Marut: TBH I fail to see the application of Gate. So you have a Marut, chilling on Sigil, waiting to enforce a contract if needed, when suddendly it is gated somewhere and it's like "eee... I have work on Sigil. Goodbye." Planeshifts back home.

Forcecage is a great idea. As for Medusa - can't party just not look at Medusa?(Avert their eyes?).

I love the effective, non-violent approach.

[Unoriginal]

Marut: TBH I fail to see the application of Gate. So you have a Marut, chilling on Sigil, waiting to enforce a contract if needed, when suddendly it is gated somewhere and it's like "eee... I have work on Sigil. Goodbye." Planeshifts back home.

Respecting the law enforcement of a given juridiction is also a contract.

A Marut would be against Law being not followed in general, but since Gate requires calling a specific being, it is far from unexpected for an Archmage to know the name/title of a specific Marut whose job is to enforce "it is illegal for a group of adventurers to attack/resist arrest by the representative of the city's Law within its domain."



Forcecage is a great idea. As for Medusa - can't party just not look at Medusa?(Avert their eyes?).

They can try, but the Wizards will have a long time to make them look anyway.

[Theodoxus]

Respecting the law enforcement of a given juridiction is also a contract.

A Marut would be against Law being not followed in general, but since Gate requires calling a specific being, it is far from unexpected for an Archmage to know the name/title of a specific Marut whose job is to enforce "it is illegal for a group of adventurers to attack/resist arrest by the representative of the city's Law within its domain."

Not only that, I can definitely see something like the Wizards of the Candlekeep already having a contract in place with a marut, given the nature of the library and what a tempting target it is for anyone (but especially a high powered gang that actually have the means to circumvent most/all the traditional protections in place).

At the very least, it wouldn't break verisimilitude for me, if a DM pulled that trick with a similar explanation.

[schm0]

Well, looking over the 5e Candlekeep book, it says here that the first team to investigate trouble is an archmage with four mages by their sides. And if that doesn't work, four more archmages join them. So you have an official way to beef up your arsenal a bit.

What you also need is lair actions (automated Candlekeep defenses perhaps, or just things that the archmages can do), legendary resistance and/or legendary actions. Since none of these exist for the mage or archmage statblocks, you'll need to come up with your own.

I'd let the mages just be mages. Maybe tweak their defenses, but they'll be fodder, more or less.

Absolutely switch out spells as needed, as others have suggested.

And of course, if all else fails, call in Miirym, the spectral dragon, to defend the place.

[emyrion]

Unless the party is expecting them I'd consider giving them a surprise round when they teleport in. Either way, don't forget about readying spells. While one AM is teleporting them in the others are releasing a spell with their reaction as soon as they appear. So Time Stops, followed by the AMs Wall of Forcing everyone into seperate prisons to be dealt with individually. When it is 4 AM + 4 mages vs 1 PC at a time things will probably go badly for the party. When the first round of combat after the Time Stops has a PC get hit by 8x upcast magic missles doing ~120dmg while the rest watch helplessly they might start to reconsider.

[sithlordnergal]

A couple of options that make Archmages really, really dangerous:

Invulnerability: Nothing says "defense" like total immunity to all damage. Congrats, the AoEs that hit yourself do nothing.

Prismatic Wall: Use this spell at your own risk. But if you really want to stop a party in their tracks, this is how you do it. Especially if you make it a sphere that surrounds the party. Your party literally cannot get through this without dealing with 50d6 damage, being turned to stone, and being teleported off to who knows where.

Psychic Scream: Decent damage, special instant death effect, and a non-concentration stun. On an Int save at that.

Dispel Magic: I see your party enjoys using Haste. Why not remove that and make them skip their turns.

Feeblemind: No more spells or magic items for you

Symbol: These would be pre-cast, so no need to remove spell slots. Pain, Insanity, and Stun are particularly fun.

Glyph of Warding: Hey, you know what's fun? Putting spells into Glyphs of Warding. Know what's even MORE fun? Setting up Glyphs of Warding that cast Dispel Magic the moment someone who hasn't spoken the proper password casts a specific spell, like Haste, in order to instantly shut them down and make them waste their turn.

Had a DM that filled a room with Glyphs of Warding that just had Counterspell cast in them. The casters in the party were completely shut down.

[GeneralVryth]

Depending on initiative/surprise 4 Mages and 4 Archmages are likely to delete the party before there is a response. 8 bog standard Fireballs even if every success is made is 8 * ~14 = 112 average damage per player in the AOE. Make the spell Cone of Cold and that's 128 average damage even if every save is made.

Simulacram abuse (which is one of the most imbalanced and problematic combos in 5e) is the last thing I would reach for. I do like the idea of a pre-cast Invulnerability for the archmages, that combined with some Outsiders or Elementals on retainer, plus vollies of AOE should make short work of any overconfident rowdy group.

[Rafaelfras]

Also, pre-cast mirror images, blur, fire shield and if you deem necessary, blink. Blur, would be a good low level to use your concentration, mirror images and blink will make they last A LOT more and fire shield will put a toll on every hit.

[da newt]

First off what sort of murder hobo party of paladins is going to attack/kill the peace keepers of Candle Keep? Unless all your PCs are oathbreakers, such actions ought to carry consequences from the divine sources of their magics.

Secondly - the mages are just a small squad representing the entirety of the city and it's authority. If things don't go well, the party will bring all of the city's defenders and defenses down on them. Sure the party might be able to take out the squad of first responders, but then what? Murdering police officers is never a good idea.

Lastly - these mages are peace keepers and defenders, they ought to be prepped for that sort of work - maze (no save - you go to time out right now), dispel magic, counter spell, anti-magic field, reverse gravity, all the wall spells, all the precast defensive bluffs (greater invisibility for example), etc. They ought to be experts on control tactics, not killing folks.