Epic Gestalt 3.5 game (seeking dm)

[samduke]

I am looking to see if there is a dm out there willing to run such a beast as epic tends to go, but add to that Gestalt.

I had a thought in mind. A Planar game, at least level 21, I know there are a few adventures out there written for epic level games so I am not opposed to a pre-planned module, or a homebrew one either.

I doubt there will be a lack of interested persons for such a game, otherwise fairly open on most other aspects.
Which gives any potential dm fixability to do things with.

[HereBeMonsters]

Posting interest as a player, Epic sounds fun and never properly engaged in an epic campaign before. 3.5 could be fun too, its been awhile since Ive played a pure 3.5 game.

[DrK]

I am looking to see if there is a dm out there willing to run such a beast as epic tends to go, but add to that Gestalt.

I had a thought in mind. A Planar game, at least level 21, I know there are a few adventures out there written for epic level games so I am not opposed to a pre-planned module, or a homebrew one either.

I doubt there will be a lack of interested persons for such a game, otherwise fairly open on most other aspects.
Which gives any potential dm fixability to do things with.

Were you looking at a particular class combinatio , power level, homebrew stuff etc?

[samduke]

Were you looking at a particular class combinatio , power level, homebrew stuff etc?

me personally on class combinations, I have nothing particular as I have about 60 some odd build ideas that I keep filed for various ideas.

as for the planar game request portion there are many different classes and items that aid in getting about so I do not see any combination not being valid

as for power level, Well lets face is at level 21 character builds are fairly powerful add to that gestalt makes it more powerful.
That said I would hope that any potential gm would understand what is requested is for lack of better words. Mid-high to High power level with potential for overpowered.

as I said in the 1st post I left room for any potential GM/DM to have flexibility with things like homebrew, sources ect.

[Lioslaith]

I would definitely be interested in something like this.

[DrK]

Okay well I shall revisit a game concept I tried several years ago... Here is a loose 16. It may not be exactly what you want but we can discuss details if you so wish?


To Battle the Gods Themselves

https://www.realmofhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Myth.jpg

The lands of Aegean sea, the neighboring Pharoh states of the Nile and the savage frozen lands of the Norse all are blessed with powerful and generous Gods that have blessed their followers for many generations. But now they Gods have turned their backs on their followers. Posiedon causes mayhem with storms on whim disrupting trade. Mightly Odin judges Jarls for little reason splitting them with lightning and even the greatest of the Pharoh's heroes has his heart found wanting and consumed by Sobek. The situation is dire, crops fail, storms rage across the lands, teleportation magic has been disallowed by the Gods and great monsters stalk the mountains, deserts and seas slaying people by the hundreds.


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/f2/44/48f244dbfe88b30a2f4ec4a8777d8bb7.jpg

Now the mortals have had enough! King Menelaus, the Great Jarl Ragnar Lodbrok and Queen Nefertiti have summoned a secret conclave of their greatest heroes. A dozen of the mages, priests and druids of the greatest orders have called down the mythical Purple Rain to hide the meeting from the sight of even the Gods themselves as the heroes meet in the shadows of Mt Olympus in the Temple of Artemis to discuss what must be done... the unthinkable. The mortals shall have to take the war to the Gods and their realms themselve!

So this is an Epic Level game set in a quasi mythical realm of ancient Greece, Norsca and Egypt where the Gods have declared war on their mortal followers unleashing plagues, monsters and devastation upon them. The rulers of the Mortal realms will assemble their heroes to take the fight back to the Gods themselves and the realms that they hide in. Its an epic level proposition as requested with what will be a strong mythological bent. The intent of the epic level game is to have fun however so please do not aim for "big numbers" or high optimisation. That rapidly makes a game that is not fun for anyone(players or DM included), consider that as well if you are immune to "everything" how much fun that contributes. Please consider the premise with characters themed alongside the greek/norse/egyptian themes (if you wish to add in other ancient culture themes just let me know).


1. System: DnD 3.5
2. Starting Level: Level 23
3. Character Design

32 Point Buy starting stats (you are level 23 so plenty of options to buy stat books etc...)
Hit Points: max (you'll need them)
GHostfoot Gestalt: Gestalt levels at Levels 1,5,10,15 and 20.
Races: stay close to "normal". No "lesser X" to skip your LA
No ghosts, fey etc...
No epic spells
Clerics use the pantheons from their respective pantheon
Fractional BAB / Saves
More as needed as I think of things....


4. Sourcebooks
PHB1+2, Complete (Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer/Mage), Incarnum, ToB, Epic Level handbook, Sandstorm, Spell compenduim, Magic Item compendium
If you want things outwith the list please ask. Its just a starting point to limit initial flood of options


5. Considerations /Bans

Conjunction of the Spheres..
* Astral and Ethereal effects are ineffective
* Teleportation (or beyond LoS equivalents) do not work
* Some more to follow when I flesh out the world a bit more

Ban list
* Leadership
* Factotum / Swiftblade / Planar shephard / Seven fold veil/ Dweomerkeeper / Incantrix
* Persistent spell (or other effects that result in a similar ability)
* Custom magic items (combining is okay, custom is no. No rings of vigour etc...)
* I'm sure there will be more

6. Starting Cash: 1.0 Million GP (no single item >300K)

[Lioslaith]

First question, what is ghostfoot gestalt? Would it be 23 levels of X on one "side" and 5 levels of Y on the other "side"?

[DrK]

First question, what is ghostfoot gestalt? Would it be 23 levels of X on one "side" and 5 levels of Y on the other "side"?

essentially yes. Its a partial gestalt that another GM (Ghostfoot) as used in some of his games. Essentially at Levels 1,5,10,15,20 you would take a gestalt level to add some robustness and some abilities you fac to your PC. Enough to be flavourful and interesting with the massive power multiplier that pure gestalt provides.

[Lioslaith]

So I were looking at some sort of ranger-ish type build I could sprinkle in 5 levels of rogue? Or would I be getting the rogue features of a given level as I took the gestalt? Like at level 10 for example, 10th level ranger and with the abilities of a 1, 5, and 10th level rogue or a 3rd level rogue?

Sorry, just never seen the concept.

[DrK]

So I were looking at some sort of ranger-ish type build I could sprinkle in 5 levels of rogue? Or would I be getting the rogue features of a given level as I took the gestalt? Like at level 10 for example, 10th level ranger and with the abilities of a 1, 5, and 10th level rogue or a 3rd level rogue?

Sorry, just never seen the concept.

Would be a 3rd level rogue. But some the HD dependant features and/or bonus feat options would be difference as to when they are taken

[Triskavanski]

Requests

Force Missile Mage from Dragon Annual
Archivist from Heroes of Horror

[Chambers]

I remember this game! Don't remember the character I made though. Is Tome of Magic available to use? I might make a Binder.

[DrK]

Requests

Force Missile Mage from Dragon Annual
Archivist from Heroes of Horror

Yes to the force missile mage, although I should clarify for everyone. The artial gestalt cannot game the system to cover "lost" caster levels in PrC by for example at level 10 doing force missile 1 / wizard X.

Yes to the archivist, however if a spell is on multiple spell lists the sorc/wiz, cleric, druid takes precendence. So no cherry picking level 1 trapsmith haste or level 1 paladin lesser restore for example.


I remember this game! Don't remember the character I made though. Is Tome of Magic available to use? I might make a Binder.

Yes to binders and yes to the Wizards enhacment for Epic Vestiges if you had that as a follow up questions. Feel free to reflavour th vestiges for a more mythological feel if you so wish.

[Feathersnow]

Working on a Half-Orc Paragon/Totemist//Warblade!!

[Dusk Raven]

Hmm... I like the setting, brings me back to playing Age of Mythology and Titan's Quest. Might even see if I can recreate a character of mine from the latter in this... either that, or a devotee of one of my favorite Egyptian deities, Sekhmet, who's just as down to fight the gods as fight for them. So probably a Crusader... never made a mostly-Crusader before, hmm... well, one appeal of the Tome of Battle classes is that they're great for taking from 1 to 20, and I don't particularly feel like making one of my usual convoluted multiclass builds...

EDIT: While Deities and Demigods lists portfolios and such for many Egyptian deities, Sekhmet is not among them. As such I'll have to ask for your ruling on what her domains and favored weapon would be (though I doubt I'll use the latter), as I'm probably going to go Cleric for my Ghostfoot gestalt levels. Though Favored Soul would synergize better with Crusader's Charisma use...

EDIT 2: I don't see Complete Champion listed in the allowed books, but it is a Complete book, I assume that's allowed?

[samduke]

So this is an Epic Level game set in a quasi mythical realm of ancient Greece, Norsca and Egypt where the Gods have declared war on their mortal followers unleashing plagues, monsters and devastation upon them. The rulers of the Mortal realms will assemble their heroes to take the fight back to the Gods themselves and the realms that they hide in. Its an epic level proposition as requested with what will be a strong mythological bent. The intent of the epic level game is to have fun however so please do not aim for "big numbers" or high optimisation. That rapidly makes a game that is not fun for anyone(players or DM included), consider that as well if you are immune to "everything" how much fun that contributes. Please consider the premise with characters themed alongside the greek/norse/egyptian themes (if you wish to add in other ancient culture themes just let me know).


1. System: DnD 3.5
2. Starting Level: Level 23
3. Character Design

32 Point Buy starting stats (you are level 23 so plenty of options to buy stat books etc...)
Hit Points: max (you'll need them)
GHostfoot Gestalt: Gestalt levels at Levels 1,5,10,15 and 20.
Races: stay close to "normal". No "lesser X" to skip your LA
No ghosts, fey etc...
No epic spells
Clerics use the pantheons from their respective pantheon
Fractional BAB / Saves
More as needed as I think of things....


4. Sourcebooks
PHB1+2, Complete (Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer/Mage), Incarnum, ToB, Epic Level handbook, Sandstorm, Spell compenduim, Magic Item compendium
If you want things outwith the list please ask. Its just a starting point to limit initial flood of options


5. Considerations /Bans

Conjunction of the Spheres..
* Astral and Ethereal effects are ineffective
* Teleportation (or beyond LoS equivalents) do not work
* Some more to follow when I flesh out the world a bit more

Ban list
* Leadership
* Factotum / Swiftblade / Planar shephard / Seven fold veil/ Dweomerkeeper / Incantrix
* Persistent spell (or other effects that result in a similar ability)
* Custom magic items (combining is okay, custom is no. No rings of vigour etc...)
* I'm sure there will be more

6. Starting Cash: 1.0 Million GP (no single item >300K)

Okay Concept Sounds fun,
Sourcebooks: can we include Races of series, Complete Champion, Forgotten Realms and Eberron ?

"GHostfoot Gestalt: Gestalt levels at Levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. " I have done this style before and I would like to see what you have to say / rule on using those levels for say races with RHD/LA and or Templates, if you are not allowing one or the other or both, that can be worked around for me, but something that I am asking

are you ruling that psionics and magic are one and the same ( what affects one can affect the other ) ?

the limited teleportation does this extend to effects like planeshift ?

Feats while not addressed, I am going to ask how you want to apply them, my preference would be as every odd level there by granting an epic feat at 21 and 23

additionally are you allowing traits, flaws for feats ect and if so how many of each ?


Requests : as I have a few ideas I will just make these for all of them

Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild: A Guidebook to Barbarians, Druids, and Rangers p52)
Shiba Protector (Oriental Adventures p222)
Monk of the Enabled Hand (DR#299 p46,48)
Half-Minotaur Template (DR#313 p94)
Synad Race
Eurdite class

may have others later
edited

[namo]

- Does Line of Sight teleportation still work?

- Feats are as normal for 3.5E (1, 3, 6, ...) ? (Bonus feats are always welcome - or, equivalently, the PF progression :smallwink:)
If standard, what about Flaws? (This is a very personal preference, but I'd rather have a couple bonus feats and then ban Flaws.) If you allow Flaws, people will also inevitably ask you if you allow the Dragon Magazine ones.

I might unretire and level-up my favourite level 20 Tome of Battle build (a Warblade/Swordsage/Master of Nine IIRC)
- Are Psionic feats OK?

[Triskavanski]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620278873820758026/1196180094184599582/OIG.png
Dio Mortarium (https://og.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2353413)
The All Mage
Human
Archivist 3 / Wizard 3/ Geomancer 10 / Mystic Theurge 7

[DrK]

Okay Concept Sounds fun,
Sourcebooks: can we include Races of series, Complete Champion, Forgotten Realms and Eberron ?

- In general I tend to be okay with that stuff. But I prefer to ask/mention what ad where they are taking things to avoid rapid power spiral


"GHostfoot Gestalt: Gestalt levels at Levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. " I have done this style before and I would like to see what you have to say / rule on using those levels for say races with RHD/LA and or Templates, if you are not allowing one or the other or both, that can be worked around for me, but something that I am asking

If people are desiring LA/templates I'd want to monitor very carefully. If one were to be allowed only the 1st level one (i.e. +1) could be offset.

are you ruling that psionics and magic are one and the same ( what affects one can affect the other ) ?

yes. psionics = magic for effects as its easier

the limited teleportation does this extend to effects like planeshift ?

Instantaneous Travel further than LoS has been blocked by the greater deities

Feats while not addressed, I am going to ask how you want to apply them, my preference would be as every odd level there by granting an epic feat at 21 and 23
additionally are you allowing traits, flaws for feats ect and if so how many of each ?

Was just going to do normal feats. With 23 levels and partial gestalt everyone has plenty For Flaws, I hadn't considered it. In principal I don't mind people taking one of them. But I have veto of the flaw so it has to be relevant.

Requests : as I have a few ideas I will just make these for all of them

Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild: A Guidebook to Barbarians, Druids, and Rangers p52) Yes thats okay
Shiba Protector (Oriental Adventures p222) As long there is at least 5 levels and its not a one level dip for Wis to atk/dam
Monk of the Enabled Hand (DR#299 p46,48) No
Half-Minotaur Template (DR#313 p94) Always No
Synad Race No, the effectively free bonus swift actions are abusive
Eurdite class - No. All feedback is that its too easy to abuse

may have others later
edited

See answers in Blue


- Does Line of Sight teleportation still work?

Effectively yes

- Feats are as normal for 3.5E (1, 3, 6, ...) ? (Bonus feats are always welcome - or, equivalently, the PF progression :smallwink:)
If standard, what about Flaws? (This is a very personal preference, but I'd rather have a couple bonus feats and then ban Flaws.) If you allow Flaws, people will also inevitably ask you if you allow the Dragon Magazine ones.

Yes feats are normal. 1 flaw as above

I might unretire and level-up my favourite level 20 Tome of Battle build (a Warblade/Swordsage/Master of Nine IIRC)
- Are Psionic feats OK?
Yes



AT ALL:- There is the option to do this in Pathfinder as well if that would be of more interest to people using the very well written free guide available here (https://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf)



Could people please indicate if they would rather Pathfinder or DnD 3.5? I'll have a think which one I'd rather do

(for the binder players the Pathfinder Pactmaker would be available)

[samduke]

See answers in Blue

AT ALL:- There is the option to do this in Pathfinder as well if that would be of more interest to people using the very well written free guide available here (https://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf)

Could people please indicate if they would rather Pathfinder or DnD 3.5? I'll have a think which one I'd rather do
(for the binder players the Pathfinder Pactmaker would be available)

well I would hope that where I asked for a 3.5 game that would be where this was headed.

shall I change the looking for gm to recruiting ?

[Triskavanski]

Additional Requests

Gnome Twist Cloth - Races of Stone
Academic Priest - I guess this is from Dragon Lance books.. Something ultimately to make archivist less bookworking instead of tracking wisdom for bonus spells and int for wizard bonus spells, and int for both casting abilities otherwise.
Able-Learner - Race of Destiny - Makes skill points less of a hassle to track when I can and cannot level up certain skills, even though my classes pretty much share the same set of main skills.

Combat Wizard Varient - Archivist has scribe scroll.
Domain Wizard Varient - rather than taking a school.

[Auranghzeb]

I have a WIP for Atalanta (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/?id=2563535) in a 3.5 build: Half-Elf Ranger 6/WildRunner10/Knight of the Sacred Seal/Swordsage 2
Ghostfoot's: Binder3/Swordsage 2


As for vestiges, she'll be using Paimon re-fluffed as Diana and Andras re-Fluffed as Athena most of the time.
The equipment combos are detailed in the additional infomartion sheet.


EDIT: I just read the above discussion due to the Forums loading slowly these days.

[namo]

I always feel bad for the DM faced with a flood of requests in these situations... but I'm still going to participate --> Requests: :smallredface:
- Half-Giant (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants) (XPH) or Goliaths (Race of Stone)
- Devotion feats in Complete Champion: Law Devotion
- Homebrew Epic ToB feats (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?95516-Epic-Martial-Adept-Progressions-and-Feats), specifically Dual Stance Mastery

I might as well give an inkling of the mechanics, to see if they are acceptable: the build's signature move is a single attack with good accuracy that causes a lot of damage. It needs to be recovered, so it can't happen every round (but it has other maneuvers).
The signature move is Diamond Nightmare Blade (ToB 62) + Deep Impact (XPH) to make it a touch attack, sacking (almost) all BAB for Power Attack, and quadrupling the overall damage. Less damage than a pouncing leap-attacker (or than a Raging Mongoose'd Time Stands Still), but more than many vanilla builds I think.

I also have a blaster build that I haven't yet played, now that I think about it. Less strong vs single targets, better vs crowds...

[DrK]

@ ALL

I have moved this to a fresh thread HERE (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?663711-Pathfinder-Epic-Level-Game-of-Mortals-vs-th-Gods-themselves) as I'm going to move to a pathfinder base for the game.

Apologies to @SamDuke for switching to a Pathfinder platform from DND 3.5. Although for those players that are stil interested if you have 3.5 centric builds welcome to discuss a port to Pathfinder.

[Dusk Raven]

Well, I was kinda fixated on 3.5, if only because I really wanted to try Crusader. However, there is a lot of 3rd-party Pathfinder stuff I might want to try, so maybe I can still make this work. I'll discuss that in the new thread.

[Lioslaith]

I'll pass since this is actually nothing at all like the original poster had requested. Hopefully this thread find a DM that wants to run something closer.

[samduke]

Okay well I shall revisit a game concept I tried several years ago... Here is a loose 16. It may not be exactly what you want but we can discuss details if you so wish?


To Battle the Gods Themselves

https://www.realmofhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Myth.jpg

The lands of Aegean sea, the neighboring Pharoh states of the Nile and the savage frozen lands of the Norse all are blessed with powerful and generous Gods that have blessed their followers for many generations. But now they Gods have turned their backs on their followers. Posiedon causes mayhem with storms on whim disrupting trade. Mightly Odin judges Jarls for little reason splitting them with lightning and even the greatest of the Pharoh's heroes has his heart found wanting and consumed by Sobek. The situation is dire, crops fail, storms rage across the lands, teleportation magic has been disallowed by the Gods and great monsters stalk the mountains, deserts and seas slaying people by the hundreds.


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/48/f2/44/48f244dbfe88b30a2f4ec4a8777d8bb7.jpg

Now the mortals have had enough! King Menelaus, the Great Jarl Ragnar Lodbrok and Queen Nefertiti have summoned a secret conclave of their greatest heroes. A dozen of the mages, priests and druids of the greatest orders have called down the mythical Purple Rain to hide the meeting from the sight of even the Gods themselves as the heroes meet in the shadows of Mt Olympus in the Temple of Artemis to discuss what must be done... the unthinkable. The mortals shall have to take the war to the Gods and their realms themselve!

So this is an Epic Level game set in a quasi mythical realm of ancient Greece, Norsca and Egypt where the Gods have declared war on their mortal followers unleashing plagues, monsters and devastation upon them. The rulers of the Mortal realms will assemble their heroes to take the fight back to the Gods themselves and the realms that they hide in. Its an epic level proposition as requested with what will be a strong mythological bent. The intent of the epic level game is to have fun however so please do not aim for "big numbers" or high optimisation. That rapidly makes a game that is not fun for anyone(players or DM included), consider that as well if you are immune to "everything" how much fun that contributes. Please consider the premise with characters themed alongside the greek/norse/egyptian themes (if you wish to add in other ancient culture themes just let me know).


1. System: DnD 3.5
2. Starting Level: Level 23
3. Character Design

32 Point Buy starting stats (you are level 23 so plenty of options to buy stat books etc...)
Hit Points: max (you'll need them)
GHostfoot Gestalt: Gestalt levels at Levels 1,5,10,15 and 20.
Races: stay close to "normal". No "lesser X" to skip your LA
No ghosts, fey etc...
No epic spells
Clerics use the pantheons from their respective pantheon
Fractional BAB / Saves
More as needed as I think of things....


4. Sourcebooks
PHB1+2, Complete (Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer/Mage), Incarnum, ToB, Epic Level handbook, Sandstorm, Spell compenduim, Magic Item compendium
If you want things outwith the list please ask. Its just a starting point to limit initial flood of options


5. Considerations /Bans

Conjunction of the Spheres..
* Astral and Ethereal effects are ineffective
* Teleportation (or beyond LoS equivalents) do not work
* Some more to follow when I flesh out the world a bit more

Ban list
* Leadership
* Factotum / Swiftblade / Planar shephard / Seven fold veil/ Dweomerkeeper / Incantrix
* Persistent spell (or other effects that result in a similar ability)
* Custom magic items (combining is okay, custom is no. No rings of vigour etc...)
* I'm sure there will be more

6. Starting Cash: 1.0 Million GP (no single item >300K)

it is unfortunate , this was something I was willing to work with.

[Lioslaith]

I'm still holding out hope that this will summon a DM willing to run something more like what the original poster asked for.