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kjones
2007-12-13, 12:39 AM
One of my players is a sorcerer, and he's really into the whole "being a dragon" thing. He's taken mostly fire-based spells, Draconic Heritage feats, you name it.

The problem is that he's interested in the Dragon Disciple PrC. I looked it over and it's pretty weak - practically no spell progression, I just don't see what it's supposed to be good at. So, the way I see it, I have two options.

1. Steer him away from Dragon Disciple and into a different dragon-based PrC that won't make him feel like dead weight by level 10.

2. House-rule the Dragon Disciple class to make it useful.

Any suggestions on either of these? He's almost level 5, and I have pretty much any sourcebook available to me.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-13, 12:44 AM
Dracolexi, from Races of the Dragon, is GREAT for Sorcerors. Free extra spells!

Xefas
2007-12-13, 12:48 AM
Honestly, just do two things. Get rid of the bonus spells, and add "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" instead. Then, change the Natural Armor bonus from "unspecified" to "enhancement".

This way, he's getting:
1) An armor boost that doesn't stack with the Amulet of Natural Armor
2) Ability Boosts and slightly better BAB, to make him effective at melee combat, which he'll be useless at either way. Also, useless natural weapons for a sorcerer.
3) A Breath Weapon that is useless for a blaster sorcerer.
4) Wings at minimum level 14. Not too impressive.
5) Blindsense and the Dragon type. Okay, but nothing broken.

It's better than just taking levels in Sorcerer...but not incredible in any way. Certainly doesn't weaken him.

Dausuul
2007-12-13, 12:48 AM
One of my players is a sorcerer, and he's really into the whole "being a dragon" thing. He's taken mostly fire-based spells, Draconic Heritage feats, you name it.

The problem is that he's interested in the Dragon Disciple PrC. I looked it over and it's pretty weak - practically no spell progression, I just don't see what it's supposed to be good at. So, the way I see it, I have two options.

1. Steer him away from Dragon Disciple and into a different dragon-based PrC that won't make him feel like dead weight by level 10.

2. House-rule the Dragon Disciple class to make it useful.

Any suggestions on either of these? He's almost level 5, and I have pretty much any sourcebook available to me.

Show him the dragonform spell in PHB2. Then point out that if he goes Dragon Disciple, or really any class that gives up more than two caster levels, HE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO CAST IT.

That should cool his enthusiasm for Dragon Disciple if anything will. :smallbiggrin:

Darrin
2007-12-13, 10:19 AM
Any suggestions on either of these? He's almost level 5, and I have pretty much any sourcebook available to me.

Dragon Disciple is a lousy way to get the dragon subtype. Try showing him the Half-Dragon template class - same as applying the LA +3 template, but broken up into three class levels:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a

Much more efficient level-wise, but the biggest problem is still you lose three caster levels, and for a Sorcerer that means losing 9th level spells, which just plain blows (although a Sorcerer 6/Half-Dragon 3/Bard 1 might be able to pull off a Sublime Chord build if you could work out all the skill-point wrangling).

Another way to add more draconic flavor would be to take some Bloodline levels from UA. This is somewhat more caster-friendly, since Bloodline levels count toward your caster levels, and were essentially designed to make mutli-class sorcerers more playable. An intermediate bloodline would allow him to keep 9th level spells, and only costs 2 levels instead of 3 for the Half-Dragon template.

Hmm, there are probably some much better dragon-themed PrCs in Races of the Dragon or Dragon Magic, but I'm not all that familiar with those books. Reworking the Dragon Disciple to give caster levels would probably be best, but anything that doesn't give full caster levels essentially hoses the character.

The best card you can play is probably drive home how important it is to get polymorph and shapechange as quickly as possible. Point out if he goes Dragon Disciple, he probably won't be able to even get those spells. Any PrC that delays his spellcasting (including the template class or bloodline levels) means he has that much longer to wait until polymorph and shapechange.

Draz74
2007-12-13, 11:22 AM
Honestly, just do two things. Get rid of the bonus spells, and add "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" instead. Then, change the Natural Armor bonus from "unspecified" to "enhancement".

This way, he's getting:
1) An armor boost that doesn't stack with the Amulet of Natural Armor
2) Ability Boosts and slightly better BAB, to make him effective at melee combat, which he'll be useless at either way. Also, useless natural weapons for a sorcerer.
3) A Breath Weapon that is useless for a blaster sorcerer.
4) Wings at minimum level 14. Not too impressive.
5) Blindsense and the Dragon type. Okay, but nothing broken.

It's better than just taking levels in Sorcerer...but not incredible in any way. Certainly doesn't weaken him.

I support this. I agree that changing Dragon Disciple so it progresses spellcasting isn't going to break anything ... as long as it loses a couple caster levels. Maybe at levels 5 and 10?