Resolution of premonitions, 180 issues later...

[Niknokitueu]

We all remember the premonitions that the Oracle gave in #331 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html), right?

Well, looking back with the 20-20 vision given by hindsight, I thought it worth revisiting the premonitions to see if they have been resolved.

Premonition 1.
:durkon: :How will I finally be returnin' to me beloved dwarven homelands?
A:Posthumously.
Answered in #375 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html), where the letter from the new high priest of Thor explaining that Durkon could return home got eaten by the creature in the darkness. As Durkon will never recieve this letter, he will think he is not allowed home and will not try to go home until he dies (a self-fulfilling prophesy).

Premonition 2.
:vaarsuvius: :How will I achieve complete and total ultimate arcane power?
A: By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons.
Yet to be answered. Presumably he will be instrumental in subduing the snarl (when it gets free), but will not be doing it for any of the 'right' reasons.

Premonition 3.
:haley: :Bfqe zqp M rt et fjketfj wi kljjzf? (What can I do to restore my speech?)
A: When the gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth.
Haley regains the power of intelligible speech in #393 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html). Presumably the gift horse is Elan as he came calling. Not looking a gift horse in the mouth means not questioning a gift (you seem ungrateful if you check a gift horse to see if it has healthy teeth and gums, a prerequisite for a healthy well-behaved horse). She pours out her heart, and the truth wins out. Not exactly clear from the premonition, but that is the nature of premonitions for you...

Premonition 4.
:elan: :Will this story have a happy ending?
A: Yes - for you, at least.
Depends on what you define as a 'story'.
At sub-plot level (ie Elan and Haley's unrequited love for each other): Answered in #400 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html) (and explained in #401 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html), where Roy comments on the sudden resolution of several sub plots).
At main plot level - yet to be answered. Xykon has yet to be defeated, which is the 'official' main plot.

Premonition 5.
:belkar: :Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?
A: Yes.
Belkar lends Roy his ring of jumping in #429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), without which Roy could not have embarked on his suicidal attack on Xykon, resulting in his death in #443 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html).

Premoniton 6.
:roy: :If the lich sorceror commonly referred to as "Xykon" (yadda yadda)
A: Of these two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.
Yet to be resolved.

Premonition 7.
Blackwing:Caw caw caw caw, caw caw caw? (paraphrased as "How do I get my master to remember my existence?")
A: Try ginkgo bilboa.
This is a running joke, so it will probably never be resolved.

As a relative newcomer to this sandpit, I do not know whether anyone has managed to puzzle out the full solutions to all the premonitions. Have I missed anything?

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[RMS Oceanic]

The Haley prophecy was resolved. When Nale asked her out disguised as Elan, she had an internal debate about it, then decided "what the heck", and went with him. By not looking this gift horse in the mouth, this lead to the dramatic events of 393, which restored her speech.

[Xandro]

The Belkar and the Elan prophecy are discussed all over the board (especially the Belkar prophecy). Because Xykon caused the death of Roy much more (evan he didn't kill him, the ground killed Roy) and for example Hinjo or Eugene caused Roys death at the same degree, it's questionable if the prophecy is fullfilled.

Concerning Elan it's questionable (as you already mentioned) if the end of a story arc is enough or if we need the end of the whole story.

[Ruduen]

It's probably best to call the Belkar one "Possibly Resolved". A lot of arguments have been going on about whether giving a ring of jumping is really "causing death". While it's possible, some people claim that it's not exactly strong enough to fulfill the prophecy. Plus, with the possibility of resurrections, there's also a chance that Belkar will be fulfilling his prophecy later on in a more obvious way.

[Ceaon]

Haley didn't look the horse in the mouth when Nale gave her a rather untasteful dress in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0381.html) comic.

[Barbolanero]

Premoniton 6.
:roy: :If the lich sorceror commonly referred to as "Xykon" (yadda yadda)
A: Of these two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.
Yet to be resolved.


I tend to disagree. I think that it has already been resolved, after all the Oracle did answer to which one :xykon: would be closest. Though it wasn't exactly what Roy asked, the oracle did answer it, and to my criteria it has already became true. You know, 'cause oracles hardly ever answer what you asked them to, so, it was kinda the joke that this one was actually trying to help :roy: ask the right question. Anyway, that's what I think.

[Kaelaroth]

Hmmm... hasn't Blackwing's been fulfilled? V remembered him as they were engaging in battle with the Death Knight (in Azure City) - even if Blackwing wasn't at all helpful.

And my own little premonition:
I think V's words will be: I love you Elaannnnnnn.... *sucked into the Snarl*

[SteveMB]

Premonition 4.
:elan: :Will this story have a happy ending?
A: Yes - for you, at least.
Depends on what you define as a 'story'.
At sub-plot level (ie Elan and Haley's unrequited love for each other): Answered in #400 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html) (and explained in #401 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html), where Roy comments on the sudden resolution of several sub plots).
At main plot level - yet to be answered. Xykon has yet to be defeated, which is the 'official' main plot.

Using one slang sense of "happy ending" (aka "Treasure Type O"), it was presumably resolved between #400 and #401. :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

Premoniton 6.
:If the lich sorceror commonly referred to as "Xykon" (yadda yadda)
A: Of these two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.
Now the oracle can be devious, and his answers are often easy to misunderstand, but this seems to mean that Xykon will not only go to Girard's Gate, but will go to the last gate as well. So nothing too fatal is going to happen to him before the final gate.


I tend to disagree. I think that it has already been resolved, after all the Oracle did answer to which one :xykon: would be closest. Though it wasn't exactly what Roy asked, the oracle did answer it, and to my criteria it has already became true.
I am a little confused over what you mean. Since there are only two locations, he did not say which one he would be closest to. He didn't even say which one he would be closer to. He said he would be within 1000 feet of Girard's first. Then he presumably would be within 1000 feet of the other at some later time. But which one he would get closer to is not mentioned. Likely he will touch both.

[TroyXavier]

I simply figured Girard's was closer to Azure than the other location was.

[Tal9922]

I simply figured Girard's was closer to Azure than the other location was.

how do you know there's only 1000 ft between the Azure gate and Girard's gate? Heck, i bet if you measure Azure City's length alone it'll sum up to much more than 1000ft, so no, i think Xykon will indeed proceed to Girard's gate shortly.

[PollyOliver]

I would go with "possibly resolved" for Belkar as well--both because the ring of jumping thing is debated heavily and because it's possible that he could cause the death of more than one of the people on the list. While it's unlikely (though possible) that Miko or her mount will be reappearing anytime soon, V and the Oracle are also on the list, so even if Roy *did* constitute a completion of the prophecy, he may not be the only one.

[DreadSpoon]

Why do people keep assuming the oracle answers ambiguously? We have no evidence of that. He has given straight, to the point, matter of fact answers to every single question, except those to which knowing the answer would invalidate the answer (e.g., telling Haley specifically what to do to get her speech back would have removed much of the emotion of the moment).

Also, the Belkar-Roy is still stupid as can be. The cause of death of Roy was the ground, not Belkar. Belkar couldn't even possibly be charged with manslaughter for his part in that. If I take a friend sky diving and his parachutes fail to open, nobody in their right mind would call me the cause of his death. You people are just grasping at straws, finding answers and then making up explanations for how they make sense.

[Kreistor]

Lots of people disagree that Belkar caused Roy's death. This has been done ad nauseum.

[David Argall]

Why do people keep assuming the oracle answers ambiguously? We have no evidence of that. He has given straight, to the point, matter of fact answers to every single question, except those to which knowing the answer would invalidate the answer

"Where is Xykon?" - "In his throne room."
"..finally return hom?" - "Posthumously"
"..attain ultimate...?" - "say the right four world to the right person for the wrong reasons"
"..cause the death of..?" - "Yes" - "which?" "Next"
"..happy ending..?" - "Yes, for you anyway"

We have been debating these answers for a long time, and in great detail, and we have only gotten the answer where it has been shoved in our face. These are just ambiguous answers.



Also, the Belkar-Roy is still stupid as can be. The cause of death of Roy was the ground, not Belkar. Belkar couldn't even possibly be charged with manslaughter for his part in that. If I take a friend sky diving and his parachutes fail to open, nobody in their right mind would call me the cause of his death.
Better be ready to see a lawyer if it happens. There are several possible ways you could be held civilly or criminally at fault. If he is a novice, you can be held to be his guardian, and any accident that might have been avoided by greater care by you might be prosecuted. If he is more skilled, you still could be liable if you were the one who selected/packed the parachutes or were responsible for other details.
Belkar knew he was doing an action that caused a significant increase in danger to Roy. His chief defense against manslaughter is not that he didn't cause his death. The court will rule he did. Rather, it would be that Roy knew the risks at least as well as Belkar did, and freely made the decision, thus removing Belkar from liability.

[mockingbyrd7]

My opinions:

Belkar: If Belkar caused Roy's death, Roy's mother caused Roy's death for having him. Really, I don't think that resolved anything. The same goes for Miko going nuts. She would have anyways. I don't think it's resolved just yet.
Vaarsuvius: Yet to be resolved.
Haley: Done.
Durkon: Yet to be resolved.
Roy: Yet to be resolved, except it's a completely straightforward answer.
Elan: I don't think "this story" "for Elan, at least", ended with strip 400. However, if the Giant REALLY wanted to screw with us, Elan could die before the end of the story with a smile on his face.

[someonenonotyou]

:elan:'s already had his happy ending he got the wistle

[Snooglebum]

:elan:'s already had his happy ending he got the wistle

What whistle are you referring to?

Durkon's prophecy virtually ensures that he will die heroically at some within the comic. Another possibility is him dying "off-camera", that is to say, when the comic ends.
If he really get killed off, I wonder how people will respond to that? :smallconfused:

[bluish_wolf]

It would be rather annoying, considering he's the cleric of the group, so they would have to get an NPC to raise him.

Oh, wait, you meant the readers. I don't think they would care. Death is so inconsequential in D&D.

[The Extinguisher]

My theory on the Elan bit.

Elan dies to save everyone. His stories over, he gets to be happy, and everyone else is miserable.

And he doesn't get revived because it's not drammatic enough.

[kabbor]

With regard to the gates,It is likely that Zykon will be within 1000' of the gate without noticing it. Remember, that gate is protected by 'cunning illusions' (Refer, the order of the squiggle)
Hmm, Months of adventurers around the Wild-Western lands, with everyone trying to find each other, and the gate, and finally all leaving without finding anything?

[FujinAkari]

If I take a friend sky diving and his parachutes fail to open, nobody in their right mind would call me the cause of his death. You people are just grasping at straws, finding answers and then making up explanations for how they make sense.

If you provided the parachute that failed to open, you absolutely could be held liable for his death. ((This assumes you packed it, rather than just handed it to him))

Even without that though, your analogy doesn't hold water. A better analogy would be: "If I took a friend skydiving with a company whom had had several accidents regarding their safety equipment, then I can't be held accountable."

Obviously, that is much more debatable :P. As stated above, Belkar's defense is that Roy was equally aware of the danger, not that Belkar didn't cause Roy to be in that situation.


My opinions:

Belkar: If Belkar caused Roy's death, Roy's mother caused Roy's death for having him.

You also seem to be ignoring the aspect of predictablility. Roy's mother certainly cannot be expected to have any way to foresee that copulation would eventually lead Roy to face an undead lich + dragon, but Belkar could EASILY see the direct result of his action. The question is whether Belkar expected that this action would significantly imperil Roy, to which the answer is 'Yes' since he bet on whether Roy would be "stupid enough to do it."

[Forealms]

Premoniton 6.
:roy: :If the lich sorceror commonly referred to as "Xykon" (yadda yadda)
A: Of these two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.
Yet to be resolved.

Hmm... I've been in the mindset that Xykon will come within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate... but not be looking for it in particular or even trying to get there yet. He may be going for Kraagor's Gate instead. Remember that Girard's Gate is hidden by a series of cunning illusions, so that Xykon and possibly his army would not even notice it should they come within 1000 feet of it.

However, this is ultimately unlikely as Redcloak knows both locations and would not unintentionally go past Girard's Gate if they happened to be on the western continent. As Roy pointed out, Kraagor's Gate is near the northern polar cap.

[Xandro]

You also seem to be ignoring the aspect of predictablility. Roy's mother certainly cannot be expected to have any way to foresee that copulation would eventually lead Roy to face an undead lich + dragon, but Belkar could EASILY see the direct result of his action. The question is whether Belkar expected that this action would significantly imperil Roy, to which the answer is 'Yes' since he bet on whether Roy would be "stupid enough to do it."

Now you are pretending that being cause of someone's death is a question of awareness of the circumstances, that kill the person. I can't agree to that.
If Xykon had thought, that down there on the battlefield is a big cushion where Roy would land softly and it was only an illusion created by a mad wizard, Xykon would still be the cause of Roy's death.

Stupid example, I know, but you get the point, right?

If you are aware of it or not determines if you murder someone or kill him by accident, but it doesn't determine if you are the 'cause of the death'.

By the way I think that Eugene caused Roy's death. He brought Roy into the whole fight-Xykon-thing, that finally killed him. And he should have known ...

[ZFR]

Premonition 7.
Blackwing:Caw caw caw caw, caw caw caw? (paraphrased as "How do I get my master to remember my existence?")
A: Try ginkgo bilboa.
This is a running joke, so it will probably never be resolved.



OK I have a question abou this one. How do you know that "Caw caw" got paraphrased into "How do I get..."? Did I miss something here??

Also, how is it a running joke? Has it appeared anywhere else so far?

[The Extinguisher]

Ginkgo Bilboa is a memory treatment, and it's a running gag that V forgets about Blackwing's existance.

So people just assume that's what he's saying.