The Fey Knight

[tieren]

I have wanted to play a small race on a medium mount for long time. It looks like I am finally going to get my wish, but I am reaching analysis paralysis on the options and could use your insight.

Goals: small race, heavily armored, medium mount, loves to regale others with the wonderful stories and songs he learned while at a party for 20 years.

I've considered a lot of options in the past, but I am narrowing in on a MC with Oath of Redemption Paladin and Glamor Bard. I've always toyed with the idea of playing a pacifist and this may be a fine opportunity to try it.

Idea is I would be a buffer/controller who tries to avoid combat with charisma, and in combat aids allies and tries to end fights non-violently (charm, fear, suggestion, command, etc...). The redemption paladin gets an aura at level 7 that lets it take hits for allies within it, and I could take the interceptor or protection fighting styles, then wander through combat with sanctuary on helping and healing etc...

A dwarf would make a lot sense with toughness and dwarven fortitude, but I want to be small so I am thinking a forest gnome in full plate.

Haven't decided on level split yet, but will need at least 7 levels in paladin and 6 levels in bard. Any thoughts on how you would build it out?

[RogueJK]

Keep in mind that a basic purchased or summoned mount - even one who shares spells with your via Find Steed - isn't going to be viable in combat at much past early Tier 2. Even a Warhorse has only 19 HP... That means your mount will be getting easily killed in just about every combat with your suggested Paladin 7/Bard 6 build. Even if you take the Mounted Combatant feat to be able to redirect attacks against your mount to yourself (which you should), that still won't protect such a fragile mount from save-based damage spells and AoE spells/effects. They'll be going down just about every time someone breathes acid, targets them with a Toll the Dead, or casts a fireball near them.

Instead, if you want to have a viable mounted PC past just Tier 1 and early Tier 2, you need to have a built-in way to scale your mount to something better at higher levels.

Graduating to Find Greater Steed ASAP is one route, either by staying with just Paladin until Level 13, or by going with something like a Lore Bard taking Find Steed at Bard 6 as a Magical Secret and then Find Greater Steed as another Magical Secret at Bard 10. If you go the Lore Bard route, you'll end up needing to dip 1 level into Fighter or Cleric or 2 levels into Paladin for heavy armor along the way, so this does mean waiting until Level 7 or 8 before you get Find Steed online.

Another better option is to go with a pet class like the TCoE Beastmaster Ranger. Their mount/pet automatically scale with level, and will have a better ability to survive in higher level combat than a summoned Steed/Greater Steed. You'll just have to dip 1 level into Fighter or Cleric (or spend a feat) to get Heavy Armor. A Small sized TCoE Beastmaster can ride their Beast of the Land Primal Companion right from Ranger 3, so this is the fastest way overall to get a readily available scaling mount. (Drakewarden Ranger is also an option, but has to wait until Ranger 7 to ride their Drake.)

Go the Paladin or Ranger route if you want to be more of a mounted knight and less of a spellcaster, since they're half casters. Go with Lore Bard if you want to stick with the "avoids combat via spellcasting" route, and don't care as much about mounted cavalry charges.

But either way, you'll want the Mounted Combatant feat, to shield your mount from direct attacks as well as to grant them Evasion.

Something like this:
Forest Gnome Nature or Twilight Cleric 1/TCoE Beastmaster Ranger X
STR 14+2
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 13+1
CHA 11
ASIs: Mounted Combatant at 4, 18 STR at 8, 20 STR at 12
Dueling or Interception fighting style
Persuasion Expertise

or

Forest Gnome Fighter 1/Lore Bard X
STR 14+1
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 15+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (18 CHA) at 4, Mounted Combatant at 8, 20 CHA at 12
Defense or Interception fighting style
Persuasion and Performance Expertise

[tokek]

None of your Find Steed options that are size Medium have any durability at all. They are all very flimsy. If this is part of the fun of the character - constantly having to resummon your mount - then that is fine and fun. Go for it. But you will spend a fair amount of time not mounted and will be spending spell slots on getting it back rather too often for my taste

Any non-replaceable mount is probably going to undermine your character fantasy by getting killed and leaving you walking most of the time. Medium size mounts like ponies or mastiffs are just very fragile.

The two "pet" subclasses with permanent and reasonably durable pets from level 3 that a small character can ride as a mount are the revised Ranger Beastmaster and the Battle Smith Artificer - both from Tashas. (Drakewarden Drake is size small until you hit level 7, its good but it comes online later)

Artificers have some decent support spells and support infusions (Pipes of Haunting are a stellar item at level 6). Just on the balance of spells I would say that the artificer edges this, Ranger certainly has its strengths but if you don't want to focus heavily on hitting things the spell selection for Artificer is probably a little better.

For what you are after I would probably style it as far more whimsical than the usual assumption of steampunk - there is nothing about Artificer that requires steampunk Your Steel Defender could be an animated rocking horse if you like :smallsmile:

Pick a background with some performance skills and definitely grab that wind instrument proficiency

[tieren]

I did look at better mount classes. The campaign will be in Eberron so I was going to try a dino riding halfling. There were some nice options for a ranger like mentioned above, but culturally it didn't look like heavy armor was a good fit.

I am comfortable I'll need to recast find steed relatively frequently, but a heavy armor wearing forest gnome riding a giant frog trying to convince people to give peace a chance and avoiding violence through enchantments and illusions is just the right image I have of the character. I'll pick uo protection or interception fighting style to help with the mount (or party members) and Oath of Redemption level 7 grants Aura of the Guardian which will let him take any damage the mount would suffer (or party members).

I picture him wading through combat with sanctuary on trying to aid others the best he can and be close by to let them get the benefit of the auras.

There are no medium options in find greater steed except the Peryton which doesn't fit alignment wise with my concept. May eventually be able to get Death Ward as a magical secret to keep the steed up longer too.

[Psyren]

I second the Battlesmith and Drakewarden suggestions; having a mount that scales with you is very important.

Both can fit a fey/nature/forest flavor, though the former may take a bit more work, especially if your GM is a bit narrower when it comes to Artificer having a default "machinist" or "technologist" flavor. In reality, a Battlesmith's "Steel Guardian" can have any appearance you wish, and while smith's tools are involved in its creation and repair, you don't have to make it entirely out of metal. I would consider making a wooden or stone guardian with steel talons or fangs.

If artificer doesn't fit what you're going for, go Drakewarden and hold off on mounting it until level 7 when it becomes medium.

[kingcheesepants]

As others have noted mounts are way too squishy and you'll want one that scales. To that end see if anyone else at the table would be comfortable with playing a centaur and letting you ride them. Other players are absolutely the best and most rugged mounts.

As for the class and level split. Redemption paladins get a few decent control spells and that nice aura but you would be very hard pressed to have a pacifist character or even a mainly control character with that, especially seeing as you actually have to play through all those levels before you get that aura. If your group is anything like mine that's months of playing where you won't be able to do what you actually want. So you really need to focus on the bard levels if you want a controller. You could do paladin 1/ bard 6 /paladin 6/ bard x. But most of those paladin levels are kinda dead and you'd be better off just getting higher level spells. Paladin 1 bard x is probably better for you in every way that matters. Or just skip the paladin levels and dump strength and learn moderately armored. You'd lose the fighting style and have to wear medium rather than heavy armor but it's something to consider.

[Nidgit]

Alignment doesn't really matter for a Found Steed since they're technically a summoned spirit and nut the actual beast. You could easily have an CG peryton and just have it be an effect of your fey character.

[Mastikator]

If you want to be a fey knight who uses find greater steed then you're better off being a bard than a paladin since you'd get the spell 3 levels earlier than an actual paladin. Level 10 vs level 13.

However you could have a ridable scaling mount at level 3 with battlesmith, and level 7 with drakewarden. The tricky part with those two is that you control them with a bonus action and they take their turn immediately after you, meaning you can't charge and then attack unless you use ready action. However once you're in melee the battlesmith is really great, the steel defender has the protection fighting style (with a different name) and can attack.

The fairy race is a fey creature type and feels very fey.

If you're starting level 1-3 then I'd go with battlesmith, you don't want to spend the majority of your playtime waiting for your idea to come alive.

-

An alternative is be a centaur, rather than having a mount just make half your body be a pony, be a paladin. The centaur is also a fey creature.

[OptimizedAC]

If you were to go with your original idea, note Aid is an excellent way to amp up the survivability of your mount. A mastiff has its HP doubled by a regular casting, and a 3rd level slot doubles the HP of a pony. It's one of the best spells to upcast with the build you have in mind.

And your mount is still going to die all the time.

An alternative that might hit closer to the flavour you have in mind than those already listed is the Creation Bard. You get to create your mount with fey magic. It flies. Other class features also works faerily well with the theme. And you'll have plenty of spells to fill out a pacifist role in your party - generally better assets for this purpose than what martial classes provides.

You'll have to dip for heavy armour - you can of course go paladin here, although Nature Cleric might be equally on brand (always prepared Speak with Animals gives you so many more opportunities to regale other with tales of your bravery, especially when adventuring.) The battle-mount will only last for one hour at a time, but you can keep a mastiff as a traveling mount for when you're not at risk of combat.

[tokek]

I will say one more thing regarding Battle Smith

Because you will be mounted and want heavy armor you can fully dump both Str and Dex with few consequences. Any weapon attacks you make will generally use your Int anyway

Which leaves you room to put a lot more into Cha than any normal Artificer would do which leans into your concept of a storyteller.

The issue remains of heavy armor and whether you prefer to pick it up from a dip in another class or from your 4th level feat.

[RogueJK]

I will say one more thing regarding Battle Smith

Because you will be mounted and want heavy armor you can fully dump both Str and Dex with few consequences. Any weapon attacks you make will generally use your Int anyway

Which leaves you room to put a lot more into Cha than any normal Artificer would do which leans into your concept of a storyteller.

The issue remains of heavy armor and whether you prefer to pick it up from a dip in another class or from your 4th level feat.

This could look something like this, if starting from level 4+:

Forest Gnome Twilight or Nature Cleric 1/Artificer 3+ (starting Artificer for CON save proficiency for Concentration purposes)
STR 9
DEX 8
CON 13+1
INT 15+2
WIS 13
CHA 14
ASIs: Mounted Combatant, Fey Touched (18 INT)

Note that despite the name, the "Steel Defender" doesn't have to be made from metal. You can craft it from magic-infused wood, or similar. So it can fit with the nature/Fey theme.

The downside is that, when not mounted, you have a mere 15 foot movement speed. You're also going to be perpetually maxed out on encumbrance. Potentially doable, but not ideal.

And like the straight Paladin or Ranger, you'd be a mounted knight more than a battlefield controller/debuffer like you're wanting.


So I still think Bard with a multiclass dip for heavy armor is going to be the closest you can get to your desired "mounted pacifist/controller/storyteller" concept while still being a viable character.

[RogueJK]

I am comfortable I'll need to recast find steed relatively frequently, but a heavy armor wearing forest gnome riding a giant frog trying to convince people to give peace a chance and avoiding violence through enchantments and illusions is just the right image I have of the character.

Giant Frog isn't an option from Find Steed, so be sure to check with your DM. And keep in mind that Giant Frog has just 18 HP. Even boosted with something like Aid, that's not going to hold up long in combat. It's about equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd level PC. Imagine being a Level 2-3 PC trying to survive in a Level 10+ combat...


I'll pick uo protection or interception fighting style to help with the mount (or party members) and Oath of Redemption level 7 grants Aura of the Guardian which will let him take any damage the mount would suffer (or party members).

Protection/Interception uses your Reaction. So does Aura of the Guardian. You get one Reaction per round. So you could only use one or the other to protect your mount against one attack or other instance of damage per round. Not "any damage".

Also note that Interception and Protection Fighting Styles only affect an incoming attack. With the Mounted Combatant feat, you'd already have the ability to freely redirect all attacks against your mount to yourself, so your mount shouldn't be taking any attacks. But it isn't the attacks that you need to be worried about... It's all the other non-attack ways that you mount will be taking damage, whether from environmental damage, traps, AoEs, save-based spells, monster abilities, etc.


There are no medium options in find greater steed except the Peryton which doesn't fit alignment wise with my concept. May eventually be able to get Death Ward as a magical secret to keep the steed up longer too.

As noted in an earlier post, alignment is irrelevant on summoned steeds/familiar/etc.

And reflavoring the peryton into some other style of flying creature with identical stats is an option. Besides the fluff text of being an evil stag-headed raptor bird, stats-wise it's just a generic flying creature. So you could use the Peryton stats but call it a Giant Bee or a Fairy Hippo or a Miniature Giant Space Frog With Wings.

Or, if your DM is willing to let you summon a Giant Frog with Find Steed, there's no reason why they wouldn't also be willing to let you summon a different statted creature with Find Greater Steed.

[Psyren]

An alternative is be a centaur, rather than having a mount just make half your body be a pony, be a paladin. The centaur is also a fey creature.

I legitimately love this idea. I would definitely let centaurs benefit from mounted features solo as well, such as being able to use a Lance one-handed.

[tieren]

Protection/Interception uses your Reaction. So does Aura of the Guardian. You get one Reaction per round. So you could only use one or the other to protect your mount against one attack or other instance of damage per round. Not "any damage".

And reflavoring the peryton into some other style of flying creature with identical stats is an option. Besides the fluff text of being an evil stag-headed raptor bird, stats-wise it's just a generic flying creature. So you could use the Peryton stats but call it a Giant Bee or a Fairy Hippo or a Miniature Giant Space Frog With Wings.


I am aware of the action economy issue, I was just trying to show there are some in build ways to protect the mount besides the normal mounted rules stuff. I get sanctuary as an oath spell and can share spells with the steed, so hopefully while I am buffing and controlling we won't be attractive targets, and I can soak an AOE once a round with Aura of the guardian.

Reskinning the stat block is a good point I hadn't considered. Absolutely love "fairy hippo".

We are starting the campaign at level 5, I intend to start off as paladin 5 and the first 2 level ups will be pal 6 and 7, then all bard from there on out. Backstory wise he got the attention of a fey lord for feats defending an enchanted grove from a monster attack. As a reward he was invited to a celebration in the feywyld. While there he became enthralled by the music stories and joviality. He left the party the next morning returning to his home 20 years after he left and no longer wanting to commit acts of violence and instead to spread light and peace throughout the realms. thus he began his habits of story telling and singing to share his wondrous experience and make people happier. The boons received from the bard class he will see as gifts from the fey lord rewarding him for his mission of peace, effectively believing himself to be a warlock of such lord (role play wise not mechanically).

[JLandan]

Perhaps you can get your DM to allow the Sidekick rules in Tasha's, then apply to your mount.

I like the centaur idea too, but I dislike centaurs being medium size. They should be the same size as a horse.

[tieren]

Starting to build him out:

Thinking custom lineage since gnome is really an aesthetic choice and I can start right off with the mounted combatant feat. I'll take +2 to Cha. Small size, darkvision, gnomish language.

Using Point buy, I need Str for attacks, Charisma for spells/aura and Con to stay alive, don't really need the others. I can go:


STR 15
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 15 +2 = 17

I've never dumped that hard in so many stats but I kind of like him as a low int/wis character, almost a fool with poor dexterity fumbling about. We are starting at 5th level so at paladin 4 ASI even out Str and Cha (16/18).

Background - something similar to Feylost from WBtWL, but technically custom, proficiency in Athletics and Persuasion, a musical instrument and sylvan language.

Needs to start as a paladin for heavy armor proficiency. Take proficiency in Deception and Intimidation, all weapons and armor and shields. WIS and CHA saving throws. Fighting style at Paladin 2 I think would be protection, not so much for the mount as my allies, I think disadvantage would be relevant longer than the minor damage reduction from Interception.

Fighting technique would be shield and staff, wielding the staff like a lance most of the time, but generally opposed to violence so not the main concern. (can Staff of Healing be wielded as a melee weapon?).

[Sigreid]

IIRC, the mounted combat feat gives your mount (not you) evasion and let's you force all attacks against your mount target you instead. I'm pretty sure the entire point of this feat is to make mounts viable without you having to hunt down a dragon or something.

[tieren]

IIRC, the mounted combat feat gives your mount (not you) evasion and let's you force all attacks against your mount target you instead. I'm pretty sure the entire point of this feat is to make mounts viable without you having to hunt down a dragon or something.

Yes, its a good start.
The evasion is helpful, but the saves for a mount are likely not great. I can redirect attacks to me but not spells or AoE effects. Having a resummonable mount solves a lot of problems with this concept. I was even considering a cavalier/ranger to ride a beast companion and taking ritual caster to eventually learn Phantom Steed.

[Dr.Samurai]

Yes, its a good start.
The evasion is helpful, but the saves for a mount are likely not great. I can redirect attacks to me but not spells or AoE effects. Having a resummonable mount solves a lot of problems with this concept. I was even considering a cavalier/ranger to ride a beast companion and taking ritual caster to eventually learn Phantom Steed.
In that sense Aura of Protection is a nice boost. Redemption is good because you can stop a big damaging effect that gets through. Ancients combined with your Aura of Protection may avoid those in the first place. Not sure. Redemption can flat out negate it but it is once a round. Maybe that will be enough.

[tieren]

In that sense Aura of Protection is a nice boost. Redemption is good because you can stop a big damaging effect that gets through. Ancients combined with your Aura of Protection may avoid those in the first place. Not sure. Redemption can flat out negate it but it is once a round. Maybe that will be enough.

I'm hoping so. Redemption also gets me sanctuary as an oath spell so that should help as well if I am buffing and healing. But if there is a stream of multiple effects which take it out I can Find Steed and be back in the saddle in 10 minutes.

[Sigreid]

I think if you go heavy into Paladin you also get to share your buffs, like heroism, with your mount.

[Psyren]

Perhaps you can get your DM to allow the Sidekick rules in Tasha's, then apply to your mount.

This is a great suggestion as well, and will give you a scaling mount without pigeonholing you into a specific subclass. And you don't have to go for a horse - this approach also works well if you want to be a Small character with a Medium compoanion (see below.)


I like the centaur idea too, but I dislike centaurs being medium size. They should be the same size as a horse.

I totally understand this sentiment but a lot of maps/modules are just not designed for you to have a Large quadruped creature following you around everywhere, especially in areas you have to traverse using e.g. ladders or ropes. I'm glad they made the PC Centaur Medium and allowed for Medium Sidekick mounts, so that the DM doesn't have to comb over all the material for accessibility/accommodation if the player decides they want to play one.

[Sigreid]

I totally understand this sentiment but a lot of maps/modules are just not designed for you to have a Large quadruped creature following you around everywhere, especially in areas you have to traverse using e.g. ladders or ropes. I'm glad they made the PC Centaur Medium and allowed for Medium Sidekick mounts, so that the DM doesn't have to comb over all the material for accessibility/accommodation if the player decides they want to play one.

I just see that as part of every choice having an up side and a down side. As all choices should.

[Psyren]

I just see that as part of every choice having an up side and a down side. As all choices should.

Choices having consequences is fine, but "your Centaur character has to sit out this dungeon or the DM has to redraw the whole map they downloaded" wouldn't be much of one.

And there are balance considerations too. The way auras and PBAoE effects work in 5e for example, means that those of a Large creature would cover more squares than those of a Medium or Small one.

[tieren]

I think if you go heavy into Paladin you also get to share your buffs, like heroism, with your mount.

That is a feature of the Find Steed spell and how I will be sharing Sanctuary with my mount.

[Sigreid]

That is a feature of the Find Steed spell and how I will be sharing Sanctuary with my mount.

Cool. I've only played one paladin and only for a short time as my temperament doesn't lend itself well to the whole "discipline" thing. :D

[Arkhios]

I think if you go heavy into Paladin you also get to share your buffs, like heroism, with your mount.

That is a feature of the Find Steed spell and how I will be sharing Sanctuary with my mount.

Cool. I've only played one paladin and only for a short time as my temperament doesn't lend itself well to the whole "discipline" thing. :D

At a glance it would seem that the "going heavy into paladin to gain those abilities" hints towards another edition of D&D altogether, or Pathfinder.

...Not saying it's wrong or anything, just a curious notion from my part.

As mentioned, the 2nd level spell Find Steed, available as soon as 5th level, already includes all that, and to be honest, in my opinion it's not that heavy an investment, considering how sought-after and common it is to get the extra attack, or the 6th level Aura of Protection, from a paladin "dip".

[RSP]

Check with your DM how Sanctuary will work being shared with your mount.

Technically, there’s an interpretation where if an attacker is thwarted by Sanctuary, and only another Sanctuary-ed target is available to them, they just keep doing Wis Saves until they pass one and get to attack.

In general, there’s less need for Heavy Armor if you’re planning on high Sanctuary usage; and vice versa. If heavily armored, you WANT to be eating attacks as opposed to them being redirected to your less-well-armored companions.

You’re wasting the high AC, a Sanctuary spell, and your Reaction, just to give enemies an easier target to hit.