Which 3.0 material did not get a viable update to 3.5?

[Ozreth]

Or, which 3.0 books are worth using in 3.5 as they don't have suitable replacements?

Monster Manual II comes to mind. It was not reprinted but got errata.

Oriental Adventures, not sure - some of the classes were reprinted in 3.5 sources, not sure how they stack up to each other though.

Maybe Manual of the Planes?

Deities and Demigods?

What else?

[Anthrowhale]

Many 3.5 updates are here (https://web.archive.org/web/20070216221850/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). Oriental adventures is updated to 3.5 in dragon #318, I believe. The primary source of non-updated 3.0 content is perhaps Dragon Magazine.

In terms of which content are "worth using", that seems difficult to answer without context. For example, the spells in dragon #304 are situationally interesting.

[bekeleven]

Yeah,, it''s all pretty scattershot. For instance, a lot of the content from the Guidebooks (Sword and Fist, Song and Silence, etc.) reappeared in the Complete books or Spell Compendium.

My single most-referenced piece of 3.0 content is easily chapter 2 of the Arms and Equipment Guide (Mundane Gear), because I am completely incapable of building a character without stocking up on needles, thread, insectbane candles, hammocks, a tiny magnet, or whatever other nonsense they decided to price in that book.

[ShurikVch]

Races of Faerûn is 3.0, and was never updated

Also, never updated Savage Species (looks like WotC attempted to pretend this book was never published)

[Saintheart]

Improved Critical, lol

[Cygnia]

Don't think Knock Down got updated to 3.5 either.

[Ozreth]

Many 3.5 updates are here (https://web.archive.org/web/20070216221850/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). Oriental adventures is updated to 3.5 in dragon #318, I believe. The primary source of non-updated 3.0 content is perhaps Dragon Magazine.

In terms of which content are "worth using", that seems difficult to answer without context. For example, the spells in dragon #304 are situationally interesting.

Sorry should have specified did not get updated in a book, like my monster manual 2 example.

[Ozreth]

Many 3.5 updates are here (https://web.archive.org/web/20070216221850/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). Oriental adventures is updated to 3.5 in dragon #318, I believe. The primary source of non-updated 3.0 content is perhaps Dragon Magazine.

In terms of which content are "worth using", that seems difficult to answer without context. For example, the spells in dragon #304 are situationally interesting.

Sorry should have specified did not get updated in a book, like my monster manual 2 example.

[pabelfly]

Extra favored Enemy didn't get an update. I feel like it really should have, given how much Ranger's Favored Enemy class feature changed between 3.0 and 3.5.

[Prime32]

Tome & Blood has rules for what happens to a familiar if its master dies, which I don't think were ever reprinted.

There's rules for garottes in I think Song & Silence, which were updated in an issue of Dragon.

Masters of the Wild has the lv1 druid spell power sight, which lets you scan a creature within Close range to learn its number of HD. No saving throw or SR, not even the "exploding scouter" clause you see in similar divinations.

The 3.0 soulknife was a PrC that advanced both manifesting and sneak attack while having a power channelling ability similar to the Spellsword PrC + an attack that deals Constitution drain. But the 3.0 and 3.5 psionics rules are different enough that a lot of material doesn't translate 1:1, including the way PrCs advance manifesting.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Prime32
Tome & Blood has rules for what happens to a familiar if its master dies, which I don't think were ever reprinted.

Do you happen to know what those rules say? Would be really useful for a concept I have in mind.

[Morphic tide]

Do you happen to know what those rules say? Would be really useful for a concept I have in mind.
Looks to be losing HP and skills, retain other familiar benefits of one with a master two levels lower. The big breakpoints are a 13th level master's familiar keeping SR 16 and a 23rd level master's familiar keeping an instance of Familiar Spell, which can be an 8th-level SLA. Hit Dice, Base Attack Bonus, and Saving Throw behavior is unclear.

[loky1109]

Several feats, prestige classes, and spells that originally appeared in the 3rd edition Dungeons & Dragons class guidebooks (Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Tome and Blood, Song and Silence, and Masters of the Wild) have been updated and included in the D&D v.3.5 "Complete" series of books (Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, and Complete Adventurer), as well as other sources. The following reference guide tells you where to find the most correct, up-to-date version of your favorite feats, prestige classes, and spells from these books. (https://web.archive.org/web/20211118120255/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x)

Also, Diablo 2 books.

[Dalmosh]

Some of the Prestige Classes from Sword & Fist (e.g. Lasher, Master of Chains) haven't really been represented in other books. Master of the Wild's Blighter is a pretty cool concept if not executed that well. Hexer is a pretty cool class too and is actually pretty powerful when paired with Archivist.

[Saintheart]

Master of the Wild's Blighter is a pretty cool concept if not executed that well.

The Blighter did get an update in Complete Divine, and unfortunately if anything it got slightly nerfed. They took the MoTW's interesting firehose (at will always-on Burning Hands lol) and gave the Blighter a sort of weaponised fiery flatulence, and took away his ability to turn into an incorporeal skeletal animal, which at least was interesting. The main problem with the Blighter, though, is that it's as to the Druid as the Blackguard is to the Paladin: not even worth it for the evulz.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Morphic tide
Looks to be losing HP and skills, retain other familiar benefits of one with a master two levels lower….

Really helpful, thanks.


Originally Posted by Dalmosh
*Lasher*

Seconding Lasher, one of my favorite 3.0 PrCs.

Speaking of Sword & Fist, it includes rules and feats for chariots, which I don’t think were ever reprinted or updated anywhere in 3.5 or Pathfinder. Chariot warfare occupies a specific band of ancient history, so this would be best for a campaign based on New Kingdom Egypt and/or the Hittites.

Sword & Fist also gives us the Halfling War-Wagon, which as far as I know never made another appearance either.

[Curse]

The more detailed rules about ghosts are not part of 3.5 aren't they?

[Prime32]

Arms & Equipment Guide also has rules for cursed items which supplement the DMG ones, with a number of alternate curse effects.

The 3.0 Psionics Handbook has some feats which could be salvaged and converted to 3.5 rules:

Great Sunder (Psionic): Requires Str 13, Improved Sunder; you can ignore half the hardness of objects
Inertial Armor (Psionic): While psionically focused you gain a continuous (Su) inertial armor effect which cannot be augmented
Master Dorje (Metapsionic): Can expend your psionic focus to manifest a power from a dorje using your own power points in place of a charge
Metacreative (Psionic): Choose one item creation feat; reduce its gp and XP costs by 25%
Persistent Power (Metapsionic): As the metamagic feat, including the Extend Power requirement; costs +6 PP and your psionic focus
Psychoanalyst (Psionic): Requires Cha 13+; you gain a +2 bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks when attempting to influence Int 3+ living humanoids; also you may use Cha in place for Wis for feat prereqs
Trigger Power (Psionic): Requires Psionic Talent x2, or Wild Talent + Psionic Talent; choose one power you know, whenever you manifest it and spend a total of 6pp or less, you can attempt an ability check using your primary manifesting modifier (DC = 11 + PP expended) to do so without expending power points.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Savage Species has a lot of broken stuff, but also a lot of stuff that's quite good... if used responsibly. The Symbiotic Creature template is the pinnacle of both categories; utterly broken if abused, but also the only way to do some very unique character concepts.

Arms And Equipment Guide is one of my favorite books. Where else are you going to find rules for training and riding a turtle the size of an island, or for building a Golem Horse? Plus a whole ton of cheap, purely mundane gear and goods, as mentioned above. And to top it all off, it's got some fun magical items scattered throughout the sections.

[Prime32]

or for building a Golem Horse?Monster Manual IV, page 32. :smalltongue: Much cheaper too.

[Ozreth]

Where else are you going to find rules for training and riding a turtle the size of an island, or for building a Golem Horse? Plus a whole ton of cheap, purely mundane gear and goods, as mentioned above. And to top it all off, it's got some fun magical items scattered throughout the sections.

You don't have to tell me twice.

[ShurikVch]

Do you happen to know what those rules say? Would be really useful for a concept I have in mind.
In addition: the "Tammeraut's Fate" adventure (Dungeon #106) includes Virgil the Sea Gull Ex-Familiar


Monster Manual IV, page 32. :smalltongue: Much cheaper too.
Also, Brass Steed (Heroes of Battle): while it's more expensive than Clockwork Steed, it's still a bit cheaper than Equine Golem, have more HD/AC/carrying capacity than any of those two, got Golem-like Immunity to Magic (acid slows, fog entangles, fire negates slow/entanglement and heals/gives temporary hp), and fiery eye rays (8d6, 100', every 4 rounds)

[Chronos]

Quoth Curse:

The more detailed rules about ghosts are not part of 3.5 aren't they?
Ghostwalk isn't so much "more detailed", as just completely different. Ghostwalk ghosts aren't even undead.

[zlefin]

Don't think Knock Down got updated to 3.5 either.


I dunno about book-based updates; but it appears in the 3.5 SRD. imho anything that appears in the srd would count as being updated. Also means it probably was put in the books somewhere.

dunno why it's in the section it's in; but it's still there as a regular feat.


https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown

[tyckspoon]

I dunno about book-based updates; but it appears in the 3.5 SRD. imho anything that appears in the srd would count as being updated. Also means it probably was put in the books somewhere.

dunno why it's in the section it's in; but it's still there as a regular feat.


https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown

It was printed/reprinted in Deities & Demigods, which did get a 3.5 update, so the feat is updated by inclusion (I don't think anything about it actually changed, the Demigods update was mostly changing DR values to how 3.5 works.)

[RNightstalker]

Unfortunately most of ELH didn't get an update...and let me know when you start the thread for things that got a terrible update or outright nerf from 3.0 to 3.5...

[Pugwampy]

I imagine the race descriptions were untouched . Gnome gets two pages of racial bonus while half orc gets two paragraphs.

I always found that absurd.

[threefivearchve]

Epic-Level Handbook. Would have been good to see if there were any significant changes. Errata is one thing but a new version of the book would be cool.

[Efrate]

The psionic stuff is phenomenal and usable. Focus and pp for persistent powers is great even if powers are worse than spells.

Elh is... something. Would love to see 'fixes' for most of it.

[Remuko]

Epic-Level Handbook. Would have been good to see if there were any significant changes. Errata is one thing but a new version of the book would be cool.

agreed. the idea of being able to scale in level infinitely, is something that really makes a special part of my brain go brrrrrr

[NotInventedHere]

The Stronghold Builder's Guidebook was a 3.0 product and had a bunch of neat things on the subject of buildings, rooms, magical traps, magical walls, using spellcasting to save money on construction materials, and so on. It also had magical siege weaponry, 'wondrous architecture' (special magical items embedded into your stronghold), and example strongholds including a mobile floating tower and a stronghold built across ten different planes.

[Another Handle]

SBG was such a disappointment. They didn't even bother to integrate skill checks into it. It would have needed a full ground up rewrite, rather than an update. I recall that a few wonderous architecture type items in 3.5 did follow the price structure; half, for being immobile. But I haven't checked that in over a decade.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Where else are you going to find rules for [...] building a Golem Horse?


Monster Manual IV, page 32. :smalltongue: Much cheaper too.


Also, Brass Steed (Heroes of Battle): while it's more expensive than Clockwork Steed, it's still a bit cheaper than Equine Golem, have more HD/AC/carrying capacity than any of those two, got Golem-like Immunity to Magic (acid slows, fog entangles, fire negates slow/entanglement and heals/gives temporary hp), and fiery eye rays (8d6, 100', every 4 rounds)

Alright, fair enough, bad example. How about rules for domesticating a Hydra?

I also like the little fiddly bits of mundane gear, like insectbane candles and thieving helmets (I think that's what it was called?). They're like the stocking-stuffers of character creation.

[Morphic tide]

The Stronghold Builder's Guidebook was a 3.0 product and had a bunch of neat things on the subject of buildings, rooms, magical traps, magical walls, using spellcasting to save money on construction materials, and so on. It also had magical siege weaponry, 'wondrous architecture' (special magical items embedded into your stronghold), and example strongholds including a mobile floating tower and a stronghold built across ten different planes.
...I did not realize it was 3.0, given that it does almost nothing the edition change cares about. The only real reason you'd need to update it, to my understanding, is rectifying the economy issues on the low end so that thorps aren't blown horribly out of whack. A nice-to-have would be itemizing costs so you have clearer standards for arbitrary magic and can more easily track what Landlord is applying to.

Probably the most bothersome, to me, is Astral (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031215611/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pse/20020727b) Taskers (https://web.archive.org/web/20200314182847/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd%2Fpsm%2F20031128a). That's two separate articles for Reasons, and the wording is quite the bloated slog in the face of Augmentation and Menu options.

[Quentinas]

Extra favored Enemy didn't get an update. I feel like it really should have, given how much Ranger's Favored Enemy class feature changed between 3.0 and 3.5.

This is false, it was updated in the ghostwalk update, maybe it's a bit obscure source but there is something! Not too strong, but still updated. Link to the update https://web.archive.org/web/20150328170920/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20031225a

[InvisibleBison]

Alright, fair enough, bad example. How about rules for domesticating a Hydra?

PHB page 75.

[Yora]

example strongholds including a mobile floating tower and a stronghold built across ten different planes.

Didn't like the book, but those two were metal as hell!