World Building: a deathless world

[Skrum]

I'm doing some writing for an upcoming game. The basic idea is the players will be characters who died, went to Valhalla, and now adventure in the wilderness for experience and items. A key component though is they can't die - that is, if they "die," they reappear in the Hall. Similarly, the monsters and enemies they fight will respawn as well, and I'm planning for the more cunning and intelligent among the monsters to be aware of this.

Which raises my question: what would this world look like? How should the more intelligent enemies behave, knowing no one can die? I've got ideas for enemy factions (drawing heavily from mythological creatures of Norse myth), but what could their potential goals be? What do *they* think of the place they're in, and of occasionally getting jumped by adventurers?

This is going to be a mostly serious game, so clever ideas are good but I want to stay away from outright goofiness or entirely 4th-wall breaking.

[Theodoxus]

I suspect something like that would look like a persistent MMORPG, since they play on that principle of 'deathlessness'. And like any long running MMORPG, it would have periodic punctuated equilibrium; times of great upheaval when the gods remake the landscape - either because or, or as part of, some celestial bid for dominance.

So, to use Norse mythology, at one point, Loki decides he wants to be the All-Father, so he champions the forces of chaos to rise up. Any PCs at that time would either side with, against, or remain neutral to Loki's goals. The campaign could then either be against the backdrop of Loki's coup, or it might be in the immediate aftermath - hunting down Loki's forces if he lost, or Odin's forces if Loki won... The landscape itself might be changing. The once lush forests of Happy Hunting Grounds have withered with Fimbulwinter and it's harder to find food. The end of the campaign might usher in a completely new paradigm, opening up different take on the same concept. Same cosmic players, new trappings. It feels kind of like the Plane of Dread, but without the sinister overtone and complete despair.

The more intelligent denizens would certainly have a feeling of 'here we go again' and depending on their general makeup might embrace it or fight against it. Which could definitely play into who is going to be the 'Big Villain' for the season.

I think it would be pretty fun campaign, creating episodic seasons.

[Mastikator]

Honestly it would look like the video game Valheim but without the crafting/rediscovering materials phase. So you may respawn but you respawn without your stuff. You might even add a cumulative level penalty when they die (that they regain at 1 per long rest until they're the party level), death is not the end but death is a setback.

I do have some ideas/options.

At the end of the day when they're in the great hall, each player is allowed to recount their stories of heroism and courage.
The enemies are invaders from other planes (giants, elves, dwarves, fey, dragons, undead, disgruntled gods).
There is something wrong with Valhalla, not obvious at first but impossible to ignore as time goes by, the players have to figure out what and stop it.

Since death is not final and Valhalla is a paradise you could intersperse the game with "play sessions" where players can choose to enter drinking games, pvp/tavern brawls, test their might against a ridiculously overpowered enemy, do a social deduction game in the great hall, etc.

[Skrum]

There is something wrong with Valhalla, not obvious at first but impossible to ignore as time goes by, the players have to figure out what and stop it.


I'm definitely going to be doing something like this - namely, the gods are not present. At all. In fact, the place they're in is called Valhalla because each time someone arrives, the people that are already there call it Valhalla. But there's no source...everyone in the Hall was once alive, and they remember dying, and then they're in the Hall. Most of them are content with this; they are superstitious and aren't curious enough to pry beyond their own traditions and stories. But there's no "proof" they're fighting for Odin or anything like that. I don't know what the reveal is going to be (or even if I want one), but I want to build mystery and foreboding into the world.

The part I'm tripping on slightly is how am I going to handle the intelligent enemies - for instance, Huldra are trickster forest spirits and are quite intelligent. What do *they* tell themselves about what's happening. Do they just have their own superstitions, like they can't die as long as the such and such tree blooms?

[Mastikator]

Plot twist, it's not Valhalla, it is the bad place!

[JLandan]

Have you seen Rick and Morty Season 7, episode 9, Mort: Ragnarick?

[Unoriginal]

I'm doing some writing for an upcoming game. The basic idea is the players will be characters who died, went to Valhalla, and now adventure in the wilderness for experience and items. A key component though is they can't die - that is, if they "die," they reappear in the Hall. Similarly, the monsters and enemies they fight will respawn as well, and I'm planning for the more cunning and intelligent among the monsters to be aware of this.

Which raises my question: what would this world look like? How should the more intelligent enemies behave, knowing no one can die? I've got ideas for enemy factions (drawing heavily from mythological creatures of Norse myth), but what could their potential goals be? What do *they* think of the place they're in, and of occasionally getting jumped by adventurers?

This is going to be a mostly serious game, so clever ideas are good but I want to stay away from outright goofiness or entirely 4th-wall breaking.

D&D has a place/afterlife like that, it's called Ysgard.

The thing is that for an enemy, killing is still useful because it get the person out of the way. If they want the person out of the way for longer, then they need to beat them non-lethally (possibly just by knocking them down to 0 and choosing to not kill them), then imprison them in a way from which they can't escape or kill themselves to escape.

Also the various beings who know they come back to life and expect their enemies to respect that would just fight without fear of death.

If someone start taking measures to imprison their foes to remove them from the board, though, they'll likely get on the ****list of everyone who's fighting in good sport. Because that kind of move diminishes the trust in how things are done.

As for what enemy factions' goals would be, well, the goals wouldn't change much from mortal life.

Some want land, some want power over people, some want glory, some want riches, some want specific items, some want to destroy the whole battle-afterlife deal to replace it with something they prefer, and some have a grudge against a god or other difficult-to-beat figure.

[NecessaryWeevil]

So, does *everything* come back, or just the notable beings? Like, does Joe the Night Soil Collector come back to life if he dies? What about natural causes? Aging? If no, do these 'normal' people notice that the rules don't apply to the PCs and others?

[KyleG]

Reminds me of Riverworld by Philip Jose Farmer. I love the concept but what are the stakes, and what is the motivation to leave the great hall?

[Oramac]

I love the concept! I've actually been kicking around this exact idea on my own for a little while, though without the Norse influence.

Anyway, I think a lot of it depends on the exact being moreso than a whole group/type of beings. For example, the Huldra you mention may *in general* believe that the Tree of Everlasting Happiness must remain in bloom, but a small faction of Huldra (or a single one) has uncovered ancient runes that say the Tree is just controlling them via [spores/seeds/magic/whatever] to preserve itself or its interests.

Perhaps a lich has discovered a way to plane shift back to the Material Plane, but can't stay there more than X amount of time. He seeks create a cult on the Material Plane that will send him loyal followers in Valhalla, allowing him to be the ruler of the Dead Realm.

One big thing to consider: if nobody can truly die, then all the plans and machinations can take centuries or millennia to come to fruition. Time is not a limiting factor. What would the BBEG do if given infinite time to plot and scheme?

[Skrum]

Reminds me of Riverworld by Philip Jose Farmer. I love the concept but what are the stakes, and what is the motivation to leave the great hall?

Well, it's the central idea of the game. This is actually kind of a "Diablo but in DnD." The players are playing to do a loot piñata, action RPG. And I thought setting the game in Valhalla with Vikings that believe they're preparing for Ragnarok was too good of a match to pass up.

But I don't want it to be purely a grind, so I'm going to have intelligent enemies with motives of their own, and reveal over time that, uh, where the heck are the gods they're supposedly fighting for and maybe this isn't Valhalla at all.

[Unoriginal]

Well, it's the central idea of the game. This is actually kind of a "Diablo but in DnD." The players are playing to do a loot piñata, action RPG. And I thought setting the game in Valhalla with Vikings that believe they're preparing for Ragnarok was too good of a match to pass up.

But I don't want it to be purely a grind, so I'm going to have intelligent enemies with motives of their own, and reveal over time that, uh, where the heck are the gods they're supposedly fighting for and maybe this isn't Valhalla at all.

Is it Valhalla, then?

[Skrum]

Is it Valhalla, then?

Dunno! My vague idea is yes, but the gods are gone. I kinda like the idea of a dying world...like maybe Ragnarok already happened, the gods are dead, but Valhalla remained and souls kept getting pulled there even though there's no one in charge. Though that being the reveal feels a little anticlimactic lol.

I like the lich idea too; like maybe it's just this like demiplane created by a lich to amuse themselves.

Or maybe combine the two...the lich is an old advisor of Odin or something, and he couldn't bear to see Odin's world fall to ruin so he kept Valhalla alive, even though there's no point. A sad, lonely lich watching over a dead world.

[Mastikator]

Dunno! My vague idea is yes, but the gods are gone. I kinda like the idea of a dying world...like maybe Ragnarok already happened, the gods are dead, but Valhalla remained and souls kept getting pulled there even though there's no one in charge. Though that being the reveal feels a little anticlimactic lol.

I like the lich idea too; like maybe it's just this like demiplane created by a lich to amuse themselves.

Or maybe combine the two...the lich is an old advisor of Odin or something, and he couldn't bear to see Odin's world fall to ruin so he kept Valhalla alive, even though there's no point. A sad, lonely lich watching over a dead world.

For it to be a proper campaign the players need a quest. Either prevent something from happening, undo something that happened, or do something that needs to happen. The players need to restore the gods (rescue/revive/uncorrupt/heal), or fix Valhalla so it doesn't need them, or take their place and become gods (my favorite).
Maybe the absence of the gods causes the plane to slowly die/change/become corrupted, making it vulnerable to extraplanar invaders and causing the local fauna to turn into hideous beasts. The great hall is only safe for so long, eventually heroes will need to step up and fix the problem.

[Analytica]

One can still introduce stakes. Consider for example that dying means you accumulate dishonor each time, meaning your status in various regards falls?

There may also be ways of imprisoning, enslaving or mutilating someone that leaves them alive but no longer able to have impact, and various entities may make use of this. Maybe you can make someone's body into items and until those are broken, the person cannot reform? Or various creatures can sap your will and make you their servant until you are freed.

For monsters, this may also depend on where they reform, and in what way? How would their own societies treat them in that? And can "heroes" harvest not-quite-dead monsters to make things out of them, similarly, preventing their reforming?