D&D Movie

[Catullus64]

No, not that one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons:_Honor_Among_Thieves) No, not that one either. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(2000_film)) Let me back up.

Those of you who are fans of Dungeons & Dragons or connoisseurs of fantasy schlock (I am both) may know of the infamously bad 2000 Dungeons & Dragons film. Many have seen it and made fun of its terrible acting and dated special effects, and had a good laugh.

But they were all of them deceived, for another film was made. Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God (2005) is the sequel to that movie, which my friends and I put on for our weekly bad movie night.

The astonishing twist? It was actually pretty decent. Well, in a qualified sense. Low expectations almost certainly played a role in how much we enjoyed it in a genuine, non-ironic sense. And it's hardly what I'd call a good movie. The special effects are no better than in the 2000 movie, parts of it drag on, and the costumes mostly look like they were purchased from the local party store. But if you can look past that, there's a lot that I found charming.

Save for one hilariously ineffective villain, there are no recurring characters from the first movie. That's already a point in its favor.

It has the same quality I found so endearing about last year's Honor Among Thieves, which is that it really captures something ineffable about the experience of a D&D campaign in the way things unfold. The characters are all walking fantasy cliches: the aloof Elf wizard lady, the selfish thief with a secret soft side, the hotheaded barbarian warrior-woman. But the actors all play them with conviction, and the script affords them space to be more than just archetypes, with the result that I actually felt invested in these characters.

It also features as its two main leads a husband and wife duo; usually, I would have expected the movie to contrive conflict between them, or kill one of them off early for cheap drama, but it does neither. That's pretty rare in adventure fiction, and somewhat novel! They both have their own struggles and cool moments, and neither one seems like a mere plot device for the other, though they do spend most of the movie separated.

Despite the limits of the budget, the movie contrives a lot of neat adventure scenarios, with a number of niche D&D monsters, spells, and magic items making appearances. The action is varied pretty regularly between fights, puzzles, traps, and strange magic. I felt genuinely inspired to lift some stuff from this movie to use in my own games!

In a final analysis, even though this movie should have been unwatchable, I found there was a core earnestness to it, a sense that the people who made it were really trying, which is all the more impressive for a direct-to-video sequel to a notorious bomb. I dunno, maybe I've watched way too many campy sword-and-sorcery movies (I've watched all three Beastmaster movies) and I'm just inured to the cheesy dialogue, convoluted exposition, and dubious special effects that infest the genre. Somebody else find and watch this movie, and tell me if there really is something charming about it, or if I've just gone crazy from watching Fire & Ice too many times.

[Lemmy]

I actually prefer the 2000's movie (and its sequel) over Honor Among Thieves... sure they aren't good movies, but at least they are entertaining (even if not in the way their producers intended)... Meanwhile, Honor Among Thieves is the very definition of "mid".

[Psyren]

HAT was fine, good even, but was the victim of horrible timing. In addition to general post-COVID theater declines for nearly anything without a big mainstream IP like Barbie or Mario behind it, it landed too close to the ragestorm from the OGL debacle that cost a lot of D&D core fan goodwill, but before the equally powerful surge of new and returning D&D fan goodwill that came from Baldur's Gate 3. Had the movie dropped later in the year i.e. after BG3, I'm convinced it would have done vastly better. The titular town even gets namedropped in the movie itself, and the sheer novelty of being able to tell your non-D&D friends that the massively popular thing they just got exposed to comes up in that movie would have gotten that many more people to see it.

***

As for the 2005 movie - I haven't seen that one. The trailer looks... well, jank, but not out of the ordinary for low-budget fantasy of the time period; and while it comes off a bit overly serious I can definitely give them points for at least knowing a D&D movie should have an adventuring party with varying skillsets. So I'll likely track this one down to give it a fair shake, eventually.

[KillianHawkeye]

I remember enjoying Wrath of the Dragon God when I saw I saw it, but I don't recall any specific details since it was 15+ years ago. But yeah, it did get the feel of a traditional adventuring party a little better than the first one.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Catullus64
Those of you who are fans of Dungeons & Dragons or connoisseurs of fantasy schlock (I am both)….

I see your Dragon God, and raise you Dudes and Dragons (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2170369/).

It is the absolute schlockiest of hokey schlock. I watched it when I was utterly dane-bread and it was still too awful to bear. Quite possibly the worst special effects I’ve seen so far this century, no acting to speak of and a “plot” that felt like it was rolled up from a couple of percentile tables.

That said, if you end up enjoying it then more power to you, and at least the three weekends they spent filming this won’t have been spent in vain.

[tomandtish]

Dungeons and Dragons 3: The Book of Vile Darkness came out in 2012 (straight to video) and is surprisingly good as well.

[Peelee]

Can't look myself at the moment, but what streaming service, if any, are these on?

[Lemmy]

I remember enjoying Wrath of the Dragon God when I saw I saw it, but I don't recall any specific details since it was 15+ years ago. But yeah, it did get the feel of a traditional adventuring party a little better than the first one.
It's definitely not as memorable as the first one... But it was enjoyable enough.

HAT isn't a bad movie, but it's not great either. It's... Mid. It has a few good jokes that make it slightly better than mediocre... But that's about it. For the amount of money put into it, it turned out pretty forgettable.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Catullus64
I felt genuinely inspired to lift some stuff from this movie to use in my own games!

In a similar vein, I can wholeheartedly recommend The Shamer’s Daughter (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3022458/), which I watched with friends from my gaming group.

We decided to watch it based solely on the fact that the trailer music was the same music I’d used for a recent and memorable encounter. We had zero expectations, and the movie turned out to be a ton of fun. It’s a great little story, with some real heart despite its modest budget.


Originally Posted by Lemmy
Honor Among Thieves is the very definition of "mid".

Interesting. My group and I watched the movie and loved it.

For me it was solidly fun and, as the OP mentioned, it has that ineffable feel of how an actual game session can go.

“They must have turned the painting face-down on the floor. What do you do?” sounds like a DM smirking over the screen at his players. I can just see the druid’s player rolling her eyes and trying to figure out the right animal shape for the situation.

[Mordar]

Full agreement, best of the four (and by a significant margin, IMO).

D&D (2000) wasn't even an one-eighth donkeyed effort, and about all I recall liking was Thora Birch's armor.

D&D BoVD was better, and that's about all I remember.

I consider HAT to be akin to the MCU misusing the names of a number of characters (most notably Grand Master and Collector) to provide pretend fanservice. Doesn't help that I don't feel the two leads at all. Rain isn't a barbarian, and Jimmy Kirk is too hipster. I give him credit, though...it looks like he was trying!

Sigh...maybe one day there'll be a mysterious benefactor that bankrolls and oversees a D&D movie that doesn't try to get cross-over appeal (so it can be a great write-off and passion project?).

- M

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mordar
Sigh...maybe one day there'll be a mysterious benefactor that bankrolls and oversees a D&D movie that doesn't try to get cross-over appeal (so it can be a great write-off and passion project?).

Out of curiosity, what would you want to see in a non-crossover passion project?

[t209]

I kinda wonder if movie would have worked if it had Princess Bride narrative (or Emperor TTS Warhammer Fantasy special (https://youtu.be/M-9-bQ3JoWY?si=t6zxKcYHKh-6oxwe)), like say a group of dangers and their seission.
Maybe Snails would have been tolerable if the player is either not a good player, bad luck, or both.

[Mordar]

Out of curiosity, what would you want to see in a non-crossover passion project?

I think it is perhaps it is easier for me to know "what I don't want to see".

Don't want to see bad comedy.
Don't want to see poorly integrated fan service.
Don't want to see anachronisms that will quickly age out.
Don't want to see genre-savvy, fourth-wall breaks, or winks to the camera.

What would be great for me is something with stakes (we feel that major characters are taking things seriously and could in fact die), something that reflects the emulations we were trying to create when I started playing "serious" games. Conan the Barbarian has the right tone. Have to carry that forward to "high fantasy". I still want a lot of the tropes - party of 5/6, good array of classes/races, much more AD&D inspired than 3E or 4E. Handful of recognizable monsters played reasonably straight (no lampshading or misapplication trying to be fanservice (see Grand Master)). Costume and set at LOTR level. Timely humor that diffuses tension in a narratively appropriate way is okay, but not a focus - and certainly not a focus of a particular character. No "comic relief". And definitely, absolutely, positively no "deconstruction".

Cast would almost certainly be best served by limited exposure professionals. LOTR is a mostly good example (minus two notable exceptions), as is Conan again - a few names people knew if they paid attention and maybe a bit part or two for major stars.

I wonder what classic adventure would make a good set of bones for the story. If I come up with something I will chime back in. Despite the hate, Dragonlance could be a great trilogy...but too much to start with there, and way too much risk of slapstick and hamming.

- M

[thompur]

I enjoyed it.

[Psyren]

Can't look myself at the moment, but what streaming service, if any, are these on?

They look to be unavailable in the US. As for where to VPN to, I'm unsure.

[Anonymouswizard]

Dungeons and Dragons 3: The Book of Vile Darkness came out in 2012 (straight to video) and is surprisingly good as well.

From what I've heard the original Trilogy essentially got better as expectations lowered, although the first film was also hit by executives (they had a better version of the script they couldn't use and a vital scene was left out as they couldn't get the budget for it). I've seen arguments that WotDG is the worst because it's just kind of competent meh, with the first being bad but having Jeremy Irons and BoVD being slightly better plotted meh fantasy.


I kinda wonder if movie would have worked if it had Princess Bride narrative (or Emperor TTS Warhammer Fantasy special (https://youtu.be/M-9-bQ3JoWY?si=t6zxKcYHKh-6oxwe)), like say a group of dangers and their seission.
Maybe Snails would have been tolerable if the player is either not a good player, bad luck, or both.

You'd get something close to Dorkness Rising, which is far and away the best D&D movie ever made. But what makes it and about 90% of Hands of Fate good is that it's primarily a story about the relationship between players, with the game narrative as secondary.

Honestly WotC could have done fine by essentially remaking Dorkness Rising, but it doesn't really sell the image they want. If you remove the group basically being universally problem players (we've got a controlling GM, a munchkin, an insecure hornbag, the kind of clueless one, and Joana only escapes due to getting 'overconfident newbie') then you remove most of the driving conflict.

[tomandtish]

They look to be unavailable in the US. As for where to VPN to, I'm unsure.

None of them are streaming on Netflix, Hulu, etc. where you can watch it if you've paid for the service, and none on any of the free services (Pluto, Plex, etc.).

You CAN buy/rent the 2000 movie on Amazon prime.

[Peelee]

None of them are streaming on Netflix, Hulu, etc. where you can watch it if you've paid for the service, and none on any of the free services (Pluto, Plex, etc.).

You CAN buy/rent the 2000 movie on Amazon prime.

That'll work for that one, at least. Thanks!

[Batcathat]

At least here in Sweden, the 2013 one can be bought or rented from Apple TV for the equivalent of a couple of bucks.

[Metastachydium]

I see your Dragon God, and raise you Dudes and Dragons (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2170369/).

It is the absolute schlockiest of hokey schlock. I watched it when I was utterly dane-bread and it was still too awful to bear. Quite possibly the worst special effects I’ve seen so far this century, no acting to speak of and a “plot” that felt like it was rolled up from a couple of percentile tables.

That said, if you end up enjoying it then more power to you, and at least the three weekends they spent filming this won’t have been spent in vain.

I know I'm a tad late to the party, but judging by the poster (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2170369/mediaviewer/rm379832576/), they can't have actually been serious about this. Looks more like deliberately overdone bad comedy.

[Peelee]

On a slightly tangential note, some friends and i watched Mazee snd Monsters years ago for laughs. Turns out it's a movie about a mentally unhealthy person who joins the greatest D&D group a college could offer, and how they help him get the care he needs.

[Mordar]

On a slightly tangential note, some friends and i watched Mazee snd Monsters years ago for laughs. Turns out it's a movie about a mentally unhealthy person who joins the greatest D&D group a college could offer, and how they help him get the care he needs.

That seems like a very positive and optimistic interpretation given the experience I had living in the era when it was originally released. Interesting take here (https://thaumavore.substack.com/p/what-mazes-and-monsters-got-right#:~:text=Starring%20a%20young%20Tom%20Hanks,i t%20than%20meets%20the%20eye.)...curious of the age of the author.

- M

[DragonEyeSeeker]

Wrath was actually a quality low budget film.

[Irongron]

Honor Among Thieves was better than I expected, but expectations were very low in the first place. I also agree that the second (of the first two) was slightly better.

I did feel (and still do) that they get D&D films wrong when they try to capture the TTRPG party dynamic. Why? Because with almost every RPG it is the world building that makes the game attractive to roleplay in, not the game itself. Whether it's the Cthulu Mythos, Middle Earth, the Old World, or the Forgotten Realms.

And the Realms are a great setting, chiefly because it is so very derivative - while that may seem like a bad thing it lends itself to so many tales that once seem familiar; whether it is a story about Norse explorers, Greek demigods or Egyptian mythology, the Realms really do have it covered.

In a perfect world I'd most like to see a TV series in the style of Jim Henson's Storyteller, where the great tales of the setting, its heroes, history and its gods were told entirely earnestly, without any of this tongue in cheek 'yeah, we're embarrassed too but it's okay because we're acknowledging it' nonsense. If you want people to be invested give them something to actually care about. BG3 got this right, while the movie got it horribly, horribly wrong.

Still, with the failure of the movie, and WotC and Hasbro very much upstaged by Larian I'm not holding my breath for any new title, ar least not one born of anything besides market focused cynicism.

[t209]

Honor Among Thieves was better than I expected, but expectations were very low in the first place. I also agree that the second (of the first two) was slightly better.

I did feel (and still do) that they get D&D films wrong when they try to capture the TTRPG party dynamic. Why? Because with almost every RPG it is the world building that makes the game attractive to roleplay in, not the game itself. Whether it's the Cthulu Mythos, Middle Earth, the Old World, or the Forgotten Realms.

And the Realms are a great setting, chiefly because it is so very derivative - while that may seem like a bad thing it lends itself to so many tales that once seem familiar; whether it is a story about Norse explorers, Greek demigods or Egyptian mythology, the Realms really do have it covered.

In a perfect world I'd most like to see a TV series in the style of Jim Henson's Storyteller, where the great tales of the setting, its heroes, history and its gods were told entirely earnestly, without any of this tongue in cheek 'yeah, we're embarrassed too but it's okay because we're acknowledging it' nonsense. If you want people to be invested give them something to actually care about. BG3 got this right, while the movie got it horribly, horribly wrong.

Still, with the failure of the movie, and WotC and Hasbro very much upstaged by Larian I'm not holding my breath for any new title, ar least not one born of anything besides market focused cynicism.
Ironically, we had a discussion about the (first) DND movie and why they didn't adapt storylines from Forgotten Realms.
Either the novels or these comics:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Forgottenrealmcomic2.JPG
Forgotten Realms
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/AD%26D_Comic_Book_issue_1.jpg
and the predecessor Advanced Dungeons and Dragons
Both written by Jeff Grubb.

[Mordar]

Ironically, we had a discussion about the (first) DND movie and why they didn't adapt storylines from Forgotten Realms.
Either the novels of these comics:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Forgottenrealmcomic2.JPG
Forgotten Realms
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/AD%26D_Comic_Book_issue_1.jpg
and the predecessor Advanced Dungeons and Dragons
Both written by Jeff Grubb.

I think it is always difficult to adapt from a comic to a movie, in particular...but it seems they tonally wanted a heist movie ala Ocean's XX with D&D trappings rather than an actual D&D story, without actually being a good heist movie or a good D&D trappings movie, because [list of horrible reasons here like "it isn't for fans", "playing to the strengths of the cast", "we're more clever than you are"].

Still, something like those books should have been a reasonable entree into a franchise. Now, instead, there is nothing worth franchising.

Aside: I seem to recall those comics were among the first to switch to a larger palette computer color process. I can't find the reference that proves it, but I know that the comic shop owner commented on it when I pulled it off the shelf and I know it looked much sharper than many of the other hero books at the time.

- M

[Irongron]

I suspect one reason why they wouldn't adapt the old stories is the somewhat problematic relations they've had with their writers in the past. I know at least some were vocal about their dissatisfaction with WotC, and I've got the impression the studio would be loathe to throw attention on them.

Last year we had a panel with Elaine Cunningham to celebrate my game's 20th anniversary, though I'm not sure such questions came up, but I definitely recall hearing these things somewhere.

[t209]

I was talking more about the first movie, like why they didn’t just adapt existing stories and Forgotten Realms (like Baldur’s Gate was already big as well) instead of “annoying elf thief, blue lips wizard, and Jeremy Irons”.

[DragonEyeSeeker]

I was talking more about the first movie, like why they didn’t just adapt existing stories and Forgotten Realms (like Baldur’s Gate was already but as well) instead of “annoying elf thief, blue lips wizard, and Jeremy Irons”.

The Drizzt novels are some of the best selling novels D&D has ever produced. Drizzt and his companions & enemies are some of the most iconic characters in all of D&D. For whatever reason, studios & WotC refuse to adapt them to film or TV.

Never mind, Dragonlance.

Or Ravenloft.

Heck, some of their iconic adventures could be spun into a fun film.

[Bohandas]

The Drizzt novels are some of the best selling novels D&D has ever produced. Drizzt and his companions & enemies are some of the most iconic characters in all of D&D. For whatever reason, studios & WotC refuse to adapt them to film or TV.

Never mind, Dragonlance.

Or Ravenloft.

For Ravenloft I recommend Big Trouble In Little China. Lo Pan has all the traits of a Ravenloft darklord; evil, magic powers, wields great influence over an area but is trapped there, object of his desire perpetually just out of his grasp. Additionally Lo Pan also shares some traits with the classic D&D villain Iuz the Evil (who was at one point a ravenloft darklord), in particular, the fact thst they both alternate between appearing young and imposing and appearing old and decrepit.

[Mordar]

For Ravenloft I recommend Big Trouble In Little China. Lo Pan has all the traits of a Ravenloft darklord; evil, magic powers, wields great influence over an area but is trapped there, object of his desire perpetually just out of his grasp. Additionally Lo Pan also shares some traits with the classic D&D villain Iuz the Evil (who was at one point a ravenloft darklord), in particular, the fact thst they both alternate between appearing young and imposing and appearing old and decrepit.

And has two of the greatest actors of all time!

Where "greatest actor" = some my favorites

To quibble...the object of Lo Pan's desire isn't out of his grasp. He grasps it. Much to his later regret.

- M

[tomandtish]

The Drizzt novels are some of the best selling novels D&D has ever produced. Drizzt and his companions & enemies are some of the most iconic characters in all of D&D. For whatever reason, studios & WotC refuse to adapt them to film or TV.

Never mind, Dragonlance.

Or Ravenloft.

Heck, some of their iconic adventures could be spun into a fun film.

Dragonlance actually had an animated movie (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0825245/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_4_tt_7_nm_0_q_dragonla)of the first novel back in 2008.

[Bowerbird]

Dragonlance actually had an animated movie (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0825245/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_4_tt_7_nm_0_q_dragonla)of the first novel back in 2008.

Speak not of the abomination.

[cocote]

I actually prefer the 2000's movie (and its sequel) over Honor Among Thieves... sure they aren't good movies, but at least they are entertaining (even if not in the way their producers intended)... Meanwhile, Honor Among Thieves is the very definition of "mid".

I can see where you’re coming from! The 2000’s movie and its sequel definitely have a certain charm, even if they don’t quite hit the mark in terms of cinematic excellence. Sometimes, it’s the unintentional entertainment value that keeps us hooked

about Honor Among Thieves. It’s true that this film falls into that “mid” category – not terrible, but not mind-blowing either. It sets the stage for something more. Our adventurers, led by Edgin, manage to retrieve the elusive Tablet of Reawakening and take down the Red Wizard Sofina. That’s no small feat!

What excites me is the potential for a sequel. The Dungeons & Dragons universe is vast, and this movie only scratches the surface. Imagine diving deeper into the lore, exploring forgotten realms, encountering mythical creatures, and unearthing ancient artifacts.

[Bohandas]

The Drizzt novels are some of the best selling novels D&D has ever produced. Drizzt and his companions & enemies are some of the most iconic characters in all of D&D. For whatever reason, studios & WotC refuse to adapt them to film or TV.

Never mind, Dragonlance.

Or Ravenloft.

Heck, some of their iconic adventures could be spun into a fun film.

And Planescape.

They could probably get a decent movie out of Planescape Torment