jump skill and running starts

[rel]

Over in the 5e forum people are trying to decide if a running jump requires the character to take a run up in the same direction they are jumping or not.

This got me thinking about the RaW of 3.5. The SRD specifies that a jump with a running start requires moving at least 10 feet in a straight line, but doesn't actually specify anything about direction.

So it seems to me that a 3.5 character could by RaW move 10 feet in a straight line, pivot 90 degrees and make a jump in that new direction and still claim the running start.
Or even move 10 feet and execute a jump with a running start in the opposite direction to the movement.

Have I misread something, or is that how the RaW works with regards to jumps in 3.5?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

3.5 has a rule that states (paraphrased) that things work like they would in real life unless the rules specify otherwise, and since the rules don't specify otherwise, you would, indeed, have to jump in the direction you run, unless you can bounce off of walls via parkour.

[rel]

Interesting. That could potentially resolve a lot of different arguments depending on wording. Where do I find the original text?

[Jay R]

3.5 has a rule that states (paraphrased) that things work like they would in real life unless the rules specify otherwise, and since the rules don't specify otherwise, you would, indeed, have to jump in the direction you run, unless you can bounce off of walls via parkour.

Could you tell me where to find that rule?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

DMG p136: BEHIND THE CURTAIN: HOW REAL IS YOUR FANTASY?: This section on world-building assumes that your campaign is set in a fairly realistic world. That is to say that while wizards cast spells, deities channel power to clerics, and dragons raze villages, the world is round, the laws of physics are applicable, and most people act like real people. The reason for this assumption is that unless they are told otherwise, this situation is what your players expect.

DMG p145 & p147: Material Plane: This plane is the one most familiar to characters and is usually the “home base” for a standard D&D campaign. The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does. Even though the Material Plane is a comfortable place for PCs, it is a strange and dangerous environment for many creatures that are native to other planes but find themselves on the Material Plane at least temporarily (perhaps as the result of a summon monster spell or similar magic).

I know that I've read it more explicitly, but finding a (non-SRD) rule in several books is...difficult, especially for something not noted in the glossary. But the above should be enough to be getting on with. Unless the DM makes a world that runs off of different rules than baseline, assume that physics works the same as we consider "normal" unless there are rules that are more specific. (For example, we don't use dice to perform actions, since they're a meta-construct to help adjudicate the chances of actions succeeding.)

As I said, I know it's more explicit, but I can't find the exact rule in the half-hour I've been looking.

[Bohandas]

It's explicitly a "running" start and IIRC by RAW you can't change direction during a run action unless you have a special ability that allows you to do so. (edit: and also a run action technically lasts the entire turn so an argument could be made that you're still running even if you also jump). So the only situation where this would work is if you ended the previous turn running and then jumped on the start of the next turn (iirc it does not specify the running start has to be on the same turn)

[threefivearchve]

3.5 has a rule that states (paraphrased) that things work like they would in real life unless the rules specify otherwise, and since the rules don't specify otherwise, you would, indeed, have to jump in the direction you run, unless you can bounce off of walls via parkour.

I would agree, and that would probably be something akin to a skill trick to do it that way. Sadly, it would likely not come up, due to how common magical flight becomes very early on in the game.

[Darg]

It's explicitly a "running" start and IIRC by RAW you can't change direction during a run action unless you have a special ability that allows you to do so. (edit: and also a run action technically lasts the entire turn so an argument could be made that you're still running even if you also jump). So the only situation where this would work is if you ended the previous turn running and then jumped on the start of the next turn (iirc it does not specify the running start has to be on the same turn)

A "running start" is not a "run" action.


Action
None. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.

using the jump skill doesn't require an action nor does it require the run action.

[StreamOfTheSky]

My thoughts:

1. A "running start" is not the literal Run action, which is itself a full round action.

2. I think it'd be acceptable to jump up to like 45 degrees left or right of wherever you were last dashing. I also think going in like a semicircle or something to build up momentum in a confined space is fine and what matters is the direction you're going when you leap off the ground.

3. Obviously, the 20+ ft "running start" and actual jump distance would both be added together and limited by your movement speed and what action you're using for the movement (like a move action). If you lack enough movement speed to complete the jump and have another move action available, you'd be forced to "spend" it to complete the jump, otherwise I guess you'd technically be in mid-air between then and your next turn (I suppose saying you land but have to spend part of next turn's move action to do so would work, too)? If you still have movement speed remaining after the jump, you can continue moving as part of the same action, and IMO could even make another jump and get the "running start" applied to it.

[Darg]

The jump skill requires you to run in a straight line for 20 ft prior to the jump. That would heavily imply the need to build momentum in the most optimal way possible. Jumping straight would also be heavily implied considering that physics is assumed to be the same to earth unless otherwise stated. However, the jump skill does give you the option of jumping any direction or after any kind of movement, or no movement, just by doubling the DC.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The Jump rules require a 20' running start regardless of things like size, so a regular frog, flea, and grasshopper require the same 20' that the tarrasque does.

[Chronos]

Which is surprising, since that's the way the real world works, too, and D&D rules don't usually have the same size scaling as the real world. In the real world, jumping ability mostly doesn't scale with size at all. There's some variation, of course, in how high or how far different animals can jump, but it mostly doesn't depend on size. A human can jump up onto the top of a table a meter or so high, and so can a flea or a dog. A cat or a horse can do a bit higher, but not much higher. This is because there's a relatively constant amount of energy you can get out of a given mass of muscle, and jump height is proportional to energy per mass. Differences in jumping ability between animals are mostly due to what fraction of the animal's total mass is in their jumping muscles.